R.I.P High-End Audio?

[rahuln]

The new generation is completely unaware of this hi-fi stuff. Forget about using CDs or other physical media, I showed my kids how to play music of their choice on Tidal streaming to my stereo setup. They don't bother using it and stick to Alexa. Now, I showed them how to use the Echo dot with Bluetooth on the system. All it takes is just to turn-on and select Bluetooth if it is not already selected. They don't even bother with that simple step and continue to listen on just Echo .

 

[firearm12]

Its also something to do with exposure to good music. The songs that are being churned out these days dont demand hifi equipment. Most audiophiles start off with a passion for music. Next generation does not care about passions anymore. Same is true about many other hobbies. We are moving towards a digital society, a wall-e kind of world.

 

[arj]

I had a similar experience between streaming via Laptop vs Playing via CD Player both feeding into the same DAC. But then, i found out the culprit, the USB cable connecting the DAC seemed to pull down the quality when compared to the Coaxial connected from the CD. The moment i changed the cable, there was an instant uplift of quality - Although it would be tough say if the Laptop got better of the CDP !

Mine was again low end Laptop with noisy USB pitted against another low end CDP

But then the story took a complete reversal the moment i went ahead with Allo+LPS. Staggering difference in Quality over the Low end CDP ! Which makes my investment in DAC totally purposeful !

Also DAC allows for better flexibility , like i connect multiple sources and toggle between them at will !

Since the Auralic allows a SPDIF cable, I tried the coax (Yamamura digital and ASI liveline) as well as a toslink ( Lifatec). in all cases the CDT was undisputedly better.

I had also tried the same using a Yellotec PUClite USB-SPDIF and a good USB cable instead of the Auralic a couple of years back using an Apple iMac. Again the CDT was better.

 

[skroderider]

Its also something to do with exposure to good music. The songs that are being churned out these days dont demand hifi equipment. Most audiophiles start off with a passion for music. Next generation does not care about passions anymore. Same is true about many other hobbies. We are moving towards a digital society, a wall-e kind of world.

Combine that with the short attention span that WhatsApp, Facebook and Twitter causes, and people simply have lost the ability to stop and listen, to feel, not just hear, nuanced music. I hope that at least musicians, if not the audience, of the next generation will carry on the tradition.

 

[jenson]

You are right. Napster and ipod etc are miles behind high end audio when it comes to sound quality. But the new generation are happy with that quality. They are least bothered about high end sound. Both my children, one who is 17 year old and the other 12 year old has never once used my audio set up. All they do is use the PMPs or mobile.

that's like saying julian lennon should be as good as john lennon...have you considered the possibility that they are not as obsessed about it, or perhaps have grownup seeing highend audio and it doesnt matter to them anymore...

i btw hate the high end excesses...turntables that look like shiny industrial monoliths..speakers that weigh a ton and have levers what not....so yes, while i appreciate what high end brings to table, i am clear on what it should not be. and since it is meant for a small audience anyway, how does it even matter....the analogy i would like to draw is, it's like F1...the real high end are meant for that kind of crowd.

 

[marsilians]

Same here. I have an Auralic Aries with the LPS and a CDMpro2 transport, both feeding into the same dac and the cd sounds so much better. But again my streamer is not high end and I have not invested much in that direction so not sure enough to generalize for a cd vs Wav.

A bit OT, I am surprised you don’t seem to be getting great sound via the Aries. It’s a sleeper company in the audio world with great VFM. I have an Aries Mini and it sounds wonderful through the USB out. When compared to a friends OPPO 205, it was v close. Music was Qobuz and ripped songs from CD to FLAC and stored onboard a SSD. DAC was a PS Audio DSD.

The OPPO Analog though is in a diff league though and is much better than the digital options.

 

[arj]

A bit OT, I am surprised you don’t seem to be getting great sound via the Aries. It’s a sleeper company in the audio world with great VFM. I have an Aries Mini and it sounds wonderful through the USB out. When compared to a friends OPPO 205, it was v close. Music was Qobuz and ripped songs from CD to FLAC and stored onboard a SSD. DAC was a PS Audio DSD.

The OPPO Analog though is in a diff league though and is much better than the digital options.

That actually is my point! I was pretty much happy with the sound of the aries until I did the comparison with the CD transport which was dormant for more than 2 years.

My DAC is a Reimyo DAP 777 (which was a legend 15 years back ) and the content I compared is EAC ripped at the slowest speed with the computer doing nothing else and other services stopped
I have very little high rez i like to listen to and those are anyway downsampled to 48Khz, 24 bit so content is all 16bit 44.1Khz

 

[marsilians]

The CDP must be ina diff league as the Aries can easily best even decent ones costing many times its price. I called out the OPPO analog as it really is it’s strength vs the 203 or 100 series and the premium it garnered albeit artificially lately.

 

[arj]

The CDP must be ina diff league as the Aries can easily best even decent ones costing many times its price. I called out the OPPO analog as it really is it’s strength vs the 203 or 100 series and the premium it garnered albeit artificially lately.

Its a CD transport only..wont really call it high end like an esoteric or CEC but has been with me for more than 6 years now.. http://softone.a.la9.jp/english/m3-1.htm

 

[Deleted member 15865]

I’d like to add another dimension (the psychosocial) to this issue. I’d daresay that the hi-end audio industry needs a robust mid-if audio scene to thrive upon. Let me explain.

A big value one seeks (even if unconsciously) from splurging on high-end/luxury goods is ‘social esteem’. The article contrasts audio with automobile. But misses out on an important point. A car is out in the world - on the streets. It announces you to everyone out there. And most people buy/yearn to buy a car, so you automatically have a large interested population to flaunt your acquisition to. And get the ‘wow’s and second looks.

But when it comes to hi end audio, it sits in your music room, inside your house/office. So you are limited to the visitors to your home/office (if you discount forums such as this) to showcase your system to. Why just hi end? I have a modest system not more than Rs 3.5 lacs in all, that I keep desiring to demo to my visitors. However, with the fall in mid fi/components market, there aren’t too many visitors who are interested, and only some who are curious. Most only comment on the cuteness of the wooden preamp and the tubes, but won’t care to listen. I have to keep waiting for that one in ten visitors to fulfil my desire! In the 70s-80’s that might have been 3/10 or more.

Now not that I am not counting self-gratification (pure joy of listening to wonderful audio) as a motive. But as we move more into high end and luxury, it’s the social esteem and recognition that starts outstripping it. And therefore, hi end audio sales need a robust mid fi market to survive and thrive upon.

 

[arj]

I have to keep waiting for that one in ten visitors to fulfil my desire! In the 70s-80’s that might have been 3/10 or more.

Ha ha..I know the feeling and have given up on it eons ago and even those who care/understand dont think its worth the effort

 

[Ashenden]

A car is out in the world - on the streets. It announces you to everyone out there.

Audio too can get us out on the streets

 

[square_wave]

My experience with cd vs digital file playback has shown that the results you will get depends on how much focussed attention you give to each approach. Digital playback ( via streamer or pc) with dac can beat the cd player if the pc is optimized for such playback and enough attention to the dac choice and usb cables are given.

@arj , there is a good chance that since the reimyo is a cd era dac ( fanstastic one too.. a dream dac for many ), may not be optimised for pc playback. The optical out on the aries mini is not so great. And on top of that everything is getting downsampled too at reimyo end.

Things could change if the dac is different. But then again you may prefer the cd sound through reimyo.

Audio hobby is a strange animal sometimes

 

[square_wave]

I am not well versed in the technicalities. I just know that, I played an audio file in my laptop through an external DAC (Arcam irdac and CA DAC magic 100) The same file I burned into a cd (Sony) and listened through the same amp and speakers. The cd sounded much better. That's how I concluded.

Can you tell me the following details while you did this experiment ?

1. What playback software was in use?
2. Were you doing kernel streaming, wasapi, asio ? This will bypass windows and give you bit perfect audio when you play via pc. If you just take out the usb without doing this, you are not really listening to what pc can do.
3. What usb cable ?

 

[arj]

, there is a good chance that since the reimyo is a cd era dac ( fantastic one too.. a dream dac for many ), may not be optimised for pc playback. The optical out on the aries mini is not so great. And on top of that everything is getting downsampled too at reimyo end.

Things could change if the dac is different. But then again you may prefer the cd sound through reimyo.

Audio hobby is a strange animal sometimes

I have not given it much thought, but since the input is an SPDIF via both, I am not sure if the dac even knows where the feed is coming from so not sure if that is the case additionally most of the music I have is 16/44.1 so there is no downsampling

On the Aries, I have tried both the Optical as well as the Coax and found the optical to be more relaxed..it appears it has less details than the coax but thats because the coax is sharper sounding. I also use the LPS with it and even with the coax the CDT is far better so thought it could be the Aries .

I have all music I really want on cd / LP and streaming is just a convenience option so dont want to risk changing the dac unless it goes Kaput.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

I was like... what the f&@#. The idiot didn't even thank me.

Not to turn this into a psychology thread, but I'll say this much: Your children having not listened to a single song on your hi-fi system is a symptom. The root cause is elsewhere (and likely, deeper).

 

[jls001]

Not to turn this into a psychology thread, but I'll say this much: Your children having not listened to a single song on your hi-fi system is a symptom. The root cause is elsewhere (and likely, deeper).

To youngsters what we listen to is probably "old people's music" and holds no charm for them. Peer pressure is equally applicable to kids to conform to the musical taste of their peers who are way more important to them than their parents.

Anyway, to get back to the topic, the high end is well, alive and kicking. Proof: the sheer number of participants and visitors to high end audio shows line Munich High End, Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, HK, Taiwan, etc, and the sheer number of new products being introduced at these shows. There has always been a small but almost fanatical followers. The demographics is getting older in most parts of the world but I'm told Hong Kong bucks that trend where serious buyers there start in their mid 20s.

But the common lamentation is that prices of high end is shooting through the roof.

 

[square_wave]

Apparently RMAF have started showcasing affordable audio in separate rooms. This is a good sign.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

I didn't mention anywhere that my children have not listened in my system.

Sorry, my bad. Your angst indeed is that they don't listen to their stuff on your system.

If you are clever enough to find the root cause, please be kind enough to share.

I'm not particularly clever but I think it's quite possible that they are worried about being judged on their choice of music by you. I fully grant that I could be wrong in my estimation.

I don't want to derail this thread any more than I already have, so this will be my last word on this subject.