scams in the name of audio quality

[arj]

There is a lot of Marketing involved no doubt as with Vinyl they have a very non piratable medium. and many folks are adding capacity in terms of LP Pressing facilities.

As prem mentioned above there are some Genre's especially old hindi music of 70-90s where digital really sucks. I had given up on those until i started to listen to Vinyl again as Lata again started having sweet highs instead of much sharper high frequency which did not sound as good.

For any of the new Hi rez recordings i do prefer Digital (not claiming that either is better).

 

[rikhav]

Tell me where is no hyped marketing involved in today's world
Healthcare, medicine, real estate, automobile's, consumer grade product's. Bloody even soaps and shampoos

Then why call something in audio as scam?
As we are discussing with vinyl as source it has it's merits and demerits as source
Cables also many believe they do make a difference and some absolutely rubbish it

Yeah it's marketed right but would you call it scam ?

If yes then everything is a scam in this world

That's why we need to learn more about any purchases we make and take right decision based on our requirements

 

[tuff]

Hindi music from 70-90s is exactly why i got a turntable, but availability of source is scarce (old original pressings) due to insane prices for good condition or record's that are not in good condition, used abused over the years. As time goes by, it will get worse and i wonder how long can one pursue this medium. (people with deep pockets excluded of course), or if the medium itself can survive. Having a saregama like jukebox might really be an option for most people who dont care about fidelity but just the nostalgia of bollywood music.

 

[dheerajin]

If your setup does not keep you glued to your seat, not involving
and musical to your ears then there is something wrong with your setup irrespective
of what your medium(source-vinyl,CD,MP3,SACD) is there.
So I dont care about the quality of recording , my main attention goes towards-
how sound can be improved through components involved.
I dont belive that Vinyl is better or CDs are better, only system should be better.

As A source component people spend money and time on vinyl.
At the same time when someone is using computer for playback and you tell them to use better streamer or source, they dont feel like doing so.
That is the magic of vinyl that people can spend fortune to make it better. it has the same effect as drugs...keeps you hallucinating.

 

[hydrovac]

Tell me where is no hyped marketing involved in today's world
Health care, medicine, real estate, automobile's, consumer grade product's. Bloody even soaps and shampoos
That's why we need to learn more about any purchases we make and take right decision based on our requirements

You missed education-related advertising and marketing.

 

[dr khanwelkar]

There is a lot of Marketing involved no doubt as with Vinyl they have a very non piratable medium. and many folks are adding capacity in terms of LP Pressing facilities.

As prem mentioned above there are some Genre's especially old hindi music of 70-90s where digital really sucks. I had given up on those until i started to listen to Vinyl again as Lata again started having sweet highs instead of much sharper high frequency which did not sound as good.

For any of the new Hi rez recordings i do prefer Digital (not claiming that either is better).

In fact Piracy was at peak when Vinyl to cassette recording shops erupted like a small pox in every city.This started killing music industry.CD and MP3 was last nail in the coffin.And now I cant even get a cd or High resolution track of "Manmarziyan"

 

[dr khanwelkar]

Hindi music from 70-90s is exactly why i got a turntable, but availability of source is scarce (old original pressings) due to insane prices for good condition or record's that are not in good condition, used abused over the years. As time goes by, it will get worse and i wonder how long can one pursue this medium. (people with deep pockets excluded of course), or if the medium itself can survive. Having a saregama like jukebox might really be an option for most people who dont care about fidelity but just the nostalgia of bollywood music.

Only for those who do not care for fidelity.

 

[cha_indian]

I expected the bashings from the Vinyl guys.....Yes, I heard a few systems and they all sounded Low-Fi to me and not to forget they always added some extra music in the form of 'clicks', 'twick', 'ssss',etc

BTW anyone in Chennai is into Vinyl ?? Maybe we could someday have a get-together event. I was hoping to meet FMs on the HIFI show at chennai trade centre but seems like it is postponed again.

 

[arj]

All sounded Low fi ? You can hear some pretty good ones on you tube, but only if you are interested.

But again as they say if you have already made up your mind then why bother and let truth in the way of a good story

 

[Ravindra Desai]

I think it is boiling down to one and the same thing: If the source material (songs or music) and/ or the medium (CD/Cassette/Vinyl) on which it resides is good and/ or the form (analog, uncompressed digital) in which it resides is good, it all sounds good.
It also makes good sense since there is nothing wrong with any technology, be it analog or digital.
So it boils down to convenience for some, hobby for some. Some just choose a side and keep going.

With that said, it would be interesting to rate where the Pre-amp/ Processor, amplifier and the speaker system.

Regards,

Ravindra.

 

[hifitoaster]

I think the analogue /digital discussion going on uptill now can never be called a 'scam'. Scam must have some kind of cheating involved.
Like : 1. A knockoff product delivered
2. Selling used stuff as new
3. Selling stuff bought on grey market with a fake bill or so on.

Whats your experience in this?

 

[Hari Iyer]

I think it is boiling down to one and the same thing: If the source material (songs or music) and/ or the medium (CD/Cassette/Vinyl) on which it resides is good and/ or the form (analog, uncompressed digital) in which it resides is good, it all sounds good.
It also makes good sense since there is nothing wrong with any technology, be it analog or digital.
So it boils down to convenience for some, hobby for some. Some just choose a side and keep going.

With that said, it would be interesting to rate where the Pre-amp/ Processor, amplifier and the speaker system.

Regards,

Ravindra.

For me even the humble cassette tapes are good enough and involving. But again that's me.

 

[tuff]

In fact Piracy was at peak when Vinyl to cassette recording shops erupted like a small pox in every city.This started killing music industry.CD and MP3 was last nail in the coffin.And now I cant even get a cd or High resolution track of "Manmarziyan"

I have a different take on it. Piracy did not kill the music industry. The industry dragged itself into a ditch by fighting piracy. if anything, piracy helped democratize the industry just as it did for software industries. How ? It got exposed to a huge audience that otherwise would never have had the opportunity to listen to variety of music. The industry was and is too stupid to take a protective stand towards their "copyright" material, and kept the prices high. Monopoly is another one that kicked it in the ditch, and it continues to do so with new formats and standards. MQA is a perfect example of that.
If i buy a subscription for say Tidal, I get access to millions of songs that i would never be able to sift through in an entire lifetime. Then look at Adobe systems monthly package for Photoshop will only cost Rs. 1500 a month. If i want the whole suite, i pay anywhere between Rs.3500 to Rs.10,000 a month. Keeping pricing competitive by providing quality products is something the music industry managers have never understood. Piracy exists because the industry does not understand the market. case and point, High resolution track of manmarziyan that you are looking for. How hard is it for them to provide it? Not very. It is complacency and stupidity on the industries behalf that makes that track unavailable.

 

[arj]

In fact Piracy was at peak when Vinyl to cassette recording shops erupted like a small pox in every city.This started killing music industry.CD and MP3 was last nail in the coffin.And now I cant even get a cd or High resolution track of "Manmarziyan"

I agree on this. although with digital you can get near perfect copies while with analogue they were always copies.. Of course these days you can do a 24/196 rip as well

 

[arj]

An interesting article which coincidentally popped up just now in Forbes

While no one will argue that vinyl is any threat to streaming services like Spotify, Apple Music, and YouTube, now we know that vinyl is still a stalwart presence in the music market and will likely remain so for years to come.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/billrosenblatt/2018/09/18/vinyl-is-bigger-than-we-thought-much-bigger/

 

[reignofchaos]

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Audio_woo

Some of the things mentioned in this article are so wrong, I don't even know where to begin.

Tube thing: The author conveniently glossed over the fact that solid state electronics produce significantly more odd order distortion compared to tube electronics. Even order distortion doesn't sound as bad as odd order distortion and at time even order distortion actually makes the sound "fuller". Odd order distortion on the other hand sounds jarring to the ears.

Vinyl thing: No comments - if the sound floats your boat, so be it. Else just ignore analog.

Biwiring thing: The author again conveniently glossed over the fact that in many biwirable speakers, the two or three binding posts are actually connected by an ugly brass or similar connector. In those cases, biwiring or even better replacing these jumpers might actually make the speaker sound much better. The difference after replacing these jumpers with higher quality jumpers in my case was like night and day.

Digital thing: It is obvious that the author doesn't know a thing about how digital signals work. Bits are bits when there is no timing involved. However music reproduction is all about timing. Making sure that the bits reach with even timing is crucial. One might say that oh you can reclock at the receiver but that doesn't work as well as it would if timing is maintained correctly through the chain.

As a simple personal anecdote, let me describe what I faced recently. My team works on a real-time VR streaming system where the content is rendered on a remote PC while it is displayed on a mobile HMD over a wireless 802.11ad standard. In this system getting video output and making it look lag free was a piece of cake. However to make audio sound correct was a whole different ballgame. We had to try over a dozen different algorithms to get audio samples to sound right as our ears end up picking even extremely minute pitch variations or lip sync issues. We thought audio would get done in a couple of weeks. However the amount of time and effort we had to spend on this was 10x the original estimate. We are still not sure if our system is perfect - there might still be issues that we have not discovered. I'd not be surprised if all spdif/usb audio solutions are also similar approximations.

 

[Simplifi]

 

[Simplifi]

Tell me where is no hyped marketing involved in today's world
Healthcare, medicine, real estate, automobile's, consumer grade product's. Bloody even soaps and shampoos ..

At least they say they are selling them and doing it - why anyone have to do it under the cover of hobbyist? I never seen anyone saying they are soap or shampoo enthusiast and doing this

 

[Hiten]

its weird . . . . world
Regards : )

 

[Simplifi]

its weird . . . . world
Regards : )

I'm talking about the so called marketing under the guise of hobbyist