Separates v/s AVR - What lives more?

[OM_2K19]

One of the main problems with AV equipment is the high markup, especially in countries like us with astronomical duty. One may think he had spent 4k$ on equipment, so that it might have the best component. In reality, the BOM of the material is no more than 500$, cutting corners in many areas, especially the usage of the sub-standard parts. No wonder why the reliability of the AV equipment is decreasing day by day compared to their old counterparts even after spending a fortune on them.

 

[ankitbhargava]

One of the main problems with AV equipment is the high markup, especially in countries like us with astronomical duty. One may think he had spent 4k$ on equipment, so that it might have the best component. In reality, the BOM of the material is no more than 500$, cutting corners in many areas, especially the usage of the sub-standard parts. No wonder why the reliability of the AV equipment is decreasing day by day compared to their old counterparts even after spending a fortune on them.

Absolutely valid point, the landing cost to us in India is exorbitant to give impression of a pricey high end product but in reality we are spending a completely consumer grade retail product.

 

[Prodigy]

This is with almost all electronics I guess but recently I was seeing for a portable on HPZ and Aliexpress and found the price listed on HPZ is at par or may be better than what’s listed on a Chinese site considering the $ exchange rate and acquired customs on Landing.
That way I think some dealers are pricing the products very good.
This lockdown seems to have created a bottleneck for most of them globally.
For E.g the Parasound prices have gone up even in the US.

 

[sandeepmohan]

Is there a way to verify presence of Moisture?

No or should I say not easy.

This problem does not happen overnight. Moisture build up is a slow and gradual process. The circuitry is designed to take some abuse but there is also a limit.

Your AVR already has inbuilt forced fan cooling and heat rises up. There is no real need for external forced ventilation. It may well cause heat to trap or circulate inside.

You really should pull that receiver out of that rack. There is insufficient space above the AVR. If Marantz see this sort of installation, its straight warranty rejection. Under these conditions, it is incorrect use of the device.

I know someone who's Onkyo AVR gave up one day. There were signs of it packing up early on. It would not come out of Standy By. It was operating for a few years under high heat and humidity conditions. No Aircon too. We used the blower section of the vacuum cleaner to blow the unit out for dust and hopefully dry the insides. It worked for a while. Eventually it gave up starting with the volume pot going unresponsive and would work only with the remote. The receiver is now a giant paper weight. It does not even turn on. All faults were moisture related and several appliances in the same house hold packed up due to this.

Before you head down the road with another AVR (looks like you've been through a few already), address the issue of installation or placement

 

[buxx]

I am on my 4th AVR in a matter of 15 years. These things dont last, period.

Just get the most basic AVR that satisfy your feature list requirement and be done with it.

The way I am now looking at it is, even with 2 movies a week and a movie outing costing 2K on an average (ticket+dinner etc) - watching movies in a Home HT setup still turns out to be cheaper +/- better. Though I am not discounting the fun factor of having a movie night occasionally.

 

[ankitbhargava]

No or should I say not easy.

This problem does not happen overnight. Moisture build up is a slow and gradual process. The circuitry is designed to take some abuse but there is also a limit.

Your AVR already has inbuilt forced fan cooling and heat rises up. There is no real need for external forced ventilation. It may well cause heat to trap or circulate inside.

You really should pull that receiver out of that rack. There is insufficient space above the AVR. If Marantz see this sort of installation, its straight warranty rejection. Under these conditions, it is incorrect use of the device.

I know someone who's Onkyo AVR gave up one day. There were signs of it packing up early on. It would not come out of Standy By. It was operating for a few years under high heat and humidity conditions. No Aircon too. We used the blower section of the vacuum cleaner to blow the unit out for dust and hopefully dry the insides. It worked for a while. Eventually it gave up starting with the volume pot going unresponsive and would work only with the remote. The receiver is now a giant paper weight. It does not even turn on. All faults were moisture related and several appliances in the same house hold packed up due to this.

Before you head down the road with another AVR (looks like you've been through a few already), address the issue of installation or placement

Thanks for all the advice
Fan working as exhaust to suck out the hot air could also cause issue you mean?
I started using Fan just because I felt there is no sufficient space on top of Receiver. I can definitely make modifications to Rack to have 4-5 inch space above AVR. The sides are all ventilated properly.

I am on my 4th AVR in a matter of 15 years. These things dont last, period.

Just get the most basic AVR that satisfy your feature list requirement and be done with it.

The way I am now looking at it is, even with 2 movies a week and a movie outing costing 2K on an average (ticket+dinner etc) - watching movies in a Home HT setup still turns out to be cheaper +/- better. Though I am not discounting the fun factor of having a movie night occasionally.

Haha, this thought of "cost" has popped my mind several times. I gave it up in terms of the convenience and flexibility to chose content anytime. I watch 5 Movies a week and mostly OTT streaming

 

[liverpool_for_life]

I watch 5 Movies a week and mostly OTT streaming

Love hearing about setups that get a decent amount of usage. Awesome! Enjoy.

 

[insane79]

The average lifespan of Denon AV Receivers, irrespective of $$$, is around three years with moderate usage; that's what a service person told me (from the official service center). That said, it doesn't make much sense to spend anything more than 100K on AVR these days, IMHO.

Specially when Denon & Marantz remove new models every year like iPhones
I prefer sticking to Euro Brands for Avrs for this very reason, they upgrade it every 3-5 years unlike Denon/Marantz who do it every year.

On the 3 year lifespan on the Denon i disagree, i had a Denon X2200 which i used for 1.5yrs & sold it to a frd who is still using it. That avr is around 4 years old now & still kicking full swing. I guess Luck plays a role too..

 

[raghupb]

Does any AVR have the option of switching off power section on channels that are on pre-out?
I have been using mine in 3-ch mode, but L/R powered via outboard amp.
It has been 5 years now, touch wood.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Love hearing about setups that get a decent amount of usage. Awesome! Enjoy.

In that case, I use my setup about 4 hours (or more) everyday.

 

[Nitin K]

Specially when Denon & Marantz remove new models every year like iPhones
I prefer sticking to Euro Brands for Avrs for this very reason, they upgrade it every 3-5 years unlike Denon/Marantz who do it every year.

On the 3 year lifespan on the Denon i disagree, i had a Denon X2200 which i used for 1.5yrs & sold it to a frd who is still using it. That avr is around 4 years old now & still kicking full swing. I guess Luck plays a role too..

Hi Insane,

How do you find the sound of your Arcam as compared to a Marantz incase if you got a chance to compare. Sound is subjective but nevertheless would be great if you could put forth your views.

Thanks,
Nitin

 

[OM_2K19]

I guess Luck plays a role too..

True, luck matters a lot...

 

[insane79]

Hi Insane,

How do you find the sound of your Arcam as compared to a Marantz incase if you got a chance to compare. Sound is subjective but nevertheless would be great if you could put forth your views.

Thanks,
Nitin

Well, i had them with different speakers most of the time so will be very hard to judge, had the Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo (Jap brands) when my speakers were Jbl, Jamos etc. The last jap avr i had was denon 2200 & had that paired with my B&W 600 series speakers then, i hated the sound & switched to NAD T758 v3 after that its history as i won't go back to asian brand avrs anymore.

They just lack that detail & full sound that Nad, Arcam or Anthem give, tough to explain but once you listen to them on decent/good speakers it's no going back.

 

[sandeepmohan]

Fan working as exhaust to suck out the hot air could also cause issue you mean?

There is no evidence to say the fans caused problems.
My point is, the receiver already has its own fans to deal with the problem of heat. They are placed is the said location as thats where they are most effective.

With hardly any clearance at the top, that heat simply can't go anywhere.

Anyway; I don't want us to get stuck up on just the heat issue. Its combination of this (and possibly moisture build up over time) and the fact that the receiver needs to be installed on a open frame or placed on a flat table with nothing surrounding the unit. Flip the position of the tablet and the AVR. The tablet can still be used or seen even if its placed below. It just does not look as good.

Try and get your AVR fixed. Its a really good receiver/processor to let go.

 

[Nitin K]

Well, i had them with different speakers most of the time so will be very hard to judge, had the Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo (Jap brands) when my speakers were Jbl, Jamos etc. The last jap avr i had was denon 2200 & had that paired with my B&W 600 series speakers then, i hated the sound & switched to NAD T758 v3 after that its history as i won't go back to asian brand avrs anymore.

They just lack that detail & full sound that Nad, Arcam or Anthem give, tough to explain but once you listen to them on decent/good speakers it's no going back.

Thanks a lot for the explanation. Really appreciate it.

 

[drkrack]

do you think the separates (Processor + PA) have a better life as equipment as against AVRs?

Pre/Power having Better Performance Over AVR? Mostly yes if you are comparing both with identical capabilities.

Pre/Power setup having a Better Shelf life over AVRs? Unlikely. Electronics tend to fail over the period of time. If there's a cause concern in the usage which could damage the electronics ; that would affect the Pre/Power setup as well, why only AVR?

My last AVR Marantz SR 7010 lasted 4+yrs (its Still Working Absolutely Perfect with the New Owner) , Only to be Replaced due to Upgrade to SR 8015. The Previous AVRs from Denon and Yamaha worked fine for 2+ years before I upgraded. Again they were replaced due to upgrade and not because of any issues whatsoever. I did have issues with Denon Models earlier but most of it was rectified easily. I usually stick to Flagship models and credentials like heavier weight, no overheating issues reported, Made in Japan, Gold Caps or Cu plated body etc impress me a lot. I usually don't tinker with AVR a lot, once Audessey is Run, I don't meddle with the EQ settings unless I'm forced to. I usually buy AVR from Grey Market (without official warranty) because official warranty in India is mostly poorly managed/honoured to say the least.

My 2Paisa: If reliability is the main concern, Look for a AVR Manfacturer who gives at least a 3yr warranty on their products, if you don't mind spending a bit more ; look for Models (Pre/Power or AVRs) from Well known (for Reliability) Manfactures like McIntosh, Luxman.

 

[reachkalyan.kr]

Does any AVR have the option of switching off power section on channels that are on pre-out?

Yes.
Pioneer SC LX 59 and premium higher version ( During this period ).
I remember there is a option to select to switch off inbuild power amp outputs for LR/ LCR / 5 Channel mode ( i dont remember exactly )
Which i really miss in Denon and Marantz AVR .
I assume recent Denon X3xxx/ X4xxx/X6xxx has an option only for LR/ Complete preamp mode.

 

[spirovious]

Does any AVR have the option of switching off power section on channels

New Demon/Marantz(?) avrs have preamp mode in settings which completely turn off amp section.

 

[spirovious]

Heat is good for moisture issue, but not good for avr now a days due to compact design. Old avr used to have larger heatsinks. Marantz avrs come with power transistors placed on either side of heatsink with preamp PCB placed over it.Fans are placed in the bottom. With so much congestion, avr is bound to heat up. So Echo mode was added which reduces heat.

 

[ankitbhargava]

Pre/Power having Better Performance Over AVR? Mostly yes if you are comparing both with identical capabilities.

Pre/Power setup having a Better Shelf life over AVRs? Unlikely. Electronics tend to fail over the period of time. If there's a cause concern in the usage which could damage the electronics ; that would affect the Pre/Power setup as well, why only AVR?

My last AVR Marantz SR 7010 lasted 4+yrs (its Still Working Absolutely Perfect with the New Owner) , Only to be Replaced due to Upgrade to SR 8015. The Previous AVRs from Denon and Yamaha worked fine for 2+ years before I upgraded. Again they were replaced due to upgrade and not because of any issues whatsoever. I did have issues with Denon Models earlier but most of it was rectified easily. I usually stick to Flagship models and credentials like heavier weight, no overheating issues reported, Made in Japan, Gold Caps or Cu plated body etc impress me a lot. I usually don't tinker with AVR a lot, once Audessey is Run, I don't meddle with the EQ settings unless I'm forced to. I usually buy AVR from Grey Market (without official warranty) because official warranty in India is mostly poorly managed/honoured to say the least.

My 2Paisa: If reliability is the main concern, Look for a AVR Manfacturer who gives at least a 3yr warranty on their products, if you don't mind spending a bit more ; look for Models (Pre/Power or AVRs) from Well known (for Reliability) Manfactures like McIntosh, Luxman.

Very helpful
Do you use proper professional AV rack for the equipment?