SPDIF Transport: Allo Digione or Allo Digione Signature Bundle (seeking opinions)

[raghupb]

This leads me to believe that the master clock on Digione in some ways influences the timing and sound presentation on the inbuilt DAC. I don't know enough about how the clock signal is sent over digital Coaxial to be able to comment further.

I do understand the importance of clocks, jitter, low-noise, yada, yada.
Used to design boards sensitive to all of the above, for different applications (not audio).
Digital ground is noisy for digital application itself, let alone analog side of things.
The guiding principle of RPI is to be an SBC, so it does that well, but that form factor means it is gonna be noisy, electrically.
For audio, noise is a big issue and then clocking. If either of these go wrong, specially noise, you can hear it.

From what I read on Allo's site, their design principles are fundamentally sound (pun intended).
Extract the audio signal, clean up using LDOs, re-clock and push it out.
Now when it comes to 3 board sandwiches and 2 special purpose power supplies, personally, I draw the line.
For me it did not make sense to plonk down 30K for a streamer/transport into a 50-70K chain (excl speakers).

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[swamytk]

I have recently set up a player with the following:

1. Allo Boss 1.2
2. Allo Isolator 1.2
3. RPi3B with 1GB memory.
4. Standard power adapter recommended by Allo.

The Isolator has galvanic isolation and really protects the Boss from anything that happens in the RPi. Allo recommends that you don't power the RPi, and rather power the Boss and the Isolator. That way, the Isolator supplies power to the RPi and takes power from the Boss.

I have been constantly jumping between Volumio and Moode. Volumio did have some issues with library management. The version that was available about a month ago would take something like 2 hours to scan just 1000 files. Moode was lighting fast. Just day before I downloaded the latest version of Volumio, and it is also now lighting fast. I suspect he has switched to MySQL in the recent past.

Both software have issues with Wifi. If you can do it, the best would be a Ethernet cable. If you do use Wifi, few times they just wont connect. The best to do at such times is to just shut down the system, be patient and try after sometime. Like a fool, I reformatted the SD card thinking something had gone wrong with the installation. What really happens is that both software use the RPi's Wifi, and that is not too strong in terms of connectivity. I am thinking of fooling around with some antenna. Or if I can get an adapter that converts Wifi to Ethernet, that would be ideal.

In terms of sound quality, both are nearly identical and just out of the world. The sound stage, clarity and separation are unbelievable. Connected to the right amp and speaker combination, you really do have an audiophile system.

When you have to give 5V DC to an unit, I really am skeptical about all the Shanthi's and the Nirvana's. So I just went for the stock wall adapter recommended by Allo (some INR600), and they seem to work well. I would rather spend money on a good UPS and power conditioner so that all audio and video equipment are protected. That is exactly what I had done.

BTW, be careful of the connectors. Allo Boss and Isolator need type C while the adapter comes with a micro USB. RPi uses Micro USB.

Is there a sound difference between Moode and Volumio? Yes there is, but very difficult to define. One thing I did notice is the with Volumio, the sound volume changes from song to song. Maybe that is why they call it Volumio! Moode seems to balance the gain in a subtle manner. This could also be an issue with the song itself in terms of the gain used when it is recorded.

I still have to work on local networking, streaming, and BT transmission. But I do believe all these are very much possible.

BTW, all of Allo and its accessories are now made in India! Something we should all(o) be proud of.

Cheers.

Do you stream Spotify or Tidal with this setup? If yes how good/stable it is?

 

[shyamv]

I do understand the importance of clocks, jitter, low-noise, yada, yada.
Used to design boards sensitive to all of the above, for different applications (not audio).
Digital ground is noisy for digital application itself, let alone analog side of things.
The guiding principle of RPI is to be an SBC, so it does that well, but that form factor means it is gonna be noisy, electrically.
For audio, noise is a big issue and then clocking. If either of these go wrong, specially noise, you can hear it.

From what I read on Allo's site, their design principles are fundamentally sound (pun intended).
Extract the audio signal, clean up using LDOs, re-clock and push it out.
Now when it comes to 3 board sandwiches and 2 special purpose power supplies, personally, I draw the line.
For me it did not make sense to plonk down 30K for a streamer/transport into a 50-70K chain (excl speakers).

Cheers,
Raghu

Note my observations were with regular Allo Digione not Signature. Even Digione done reclocking in addition to galvanic isolation from RPi and SPDiF transmitter.

 

[raghupb]

Note my observations were with regular Allo Digione not Signature. Even Digione done reclocking in addition to galvanic isolation from RPi and SPDiF transmitter.

Yes. My observations also are based on Digione (non signature) with stock PS.

Have to hand it to Allo.
They have done a mighty fine job of making the "contraption" clean sounding at the base price point.
All the other stuff, clean/dirty boards, low noise PS, etc may be due to market pressure (my guess )

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[shyamv]

Do you stream Spotify or Tidal with this setup? If yes how good/stable it is?

I use both and they are quite stable. Spotify connect makes it easier as one does not need to use Volumio app. Tidal requires the use of Volumio. Search, favorites, music discovery works but the user experience is not great. Tidal Masters works if the connected DAC supports it. I don't think even the first level unfolding of MQA files is done on Volumio app. MQA files play back as 24bit/48KHz.

Yes. My observations also are based on Digione (non signature) with stock PS.

Have to hand it to Allo.
They have done a mighty fine job of making the "contraption" clean sounding at the base price point.
All the other stuff, clean/dirty boards, low noise PS, etc may be due to market pressure (my guess )

Cheers,
Raghu

Yes, even the basic rig is great value for money and a nice piece of engineering. As you said, the other stuff is for the 5% of the market who is willing to pay 100% more to get that 5% extra in terms of sound quality.

 

[swamytk]

I use both and they are quite stable. Spotify connect makes it easier as one does not need to use Volumio app. Tidal requires the use of Volumio. Search, favorites, music discovery works but the user experience is not great.

Thanks, it helps.

I don't think even the first level unfolding of MQA files is done on Volumio app. MQA files play back as 24bit/48KHz.

This is one valuable information I was looking for. Thanks for sharing. I believe MQA first level unfolding is supported by official apps only when it detects MQA supported device. That could be the reason playback is limited instead of 24bit/96kHz in linux stack.

Does any other third party stack does software decoding (first level unfolding) before passing to Dragonfly kind of cheap MQA DACs? If software stack doesn't support there is no point in connecting these MQA DACs to RPi. It looks like we need to be more careful in bringing all these together.

 

[shyamv]

Thanks, it helps.

This is one valuable information I was looking for. Thanks for sharing. I believe MQA first level unfolding is supported by official apps only when it detects MQA supported device. That could be the reason playback is limited instead of 24bit/96kHz in linux stack.

Does any other third party stack does software decoding (first level unfolding) before passing to Dragonfly kind of cheap MQA DACs? If software stack doesn't support there is no point in connecting these MQA DACs to RPi. It looks like we need to be more careful in bringing all these together.

Firstly, I think MQA is just another form of DRM and I don't find it particularly better.

Secondly, note that Volumio supports Tidal MQA files in a pass-thru mode as long as the DAC supports it. So if you have a MQA DAC then RPi+Volumio+Digione as a streamer+transport will support playback of Tidal MQA files. So you are ok there as DAC will do all MQA heavy-lifting.

As far as I know, there is no Rpi MPD sw that does first level unfolding of MQA. There is a Roon Bridge plugin for Volumio and I believe this does MQA first level unfolding. Haven't used Roon or tried it though.

If you want just the first level unfolding of MQA files, just use Tidal app on your computer or even phone and connect to your DAC via Asynchronous USB.

 

[swamytk]

Firstly, I think MQA is just another form of DRM and I don't find it particularly better.

Secondly, note that Volumio supports Tidal MQA files in a pass-thru mode as long as the DAC supports it. So if you have a MQA DAC then RPi+Volumio+Digione as a streamer+transport will support playback of Tidal MQA files. So you are ok there as DAC will do all MQA heavy-lifting.

As far as I know, there is no Rpi MPD sw that does first level unfolding of MQA. There is a Roon Bridge plugin for Volumio and I believe this does MQA first level unfolding. Haven't used Roon or tried it though.

If you want just the first level unfolding of MQA files, just use Tidal app on your computer or even phone and connect to your DAC via Asynchronous USB.

Very helpful and informative. Thanks @shyamv

So if you have a MQA DAC then RPi+Volumio+Digione as a streamer+transport will support playback of Tidal MQA files. So you are ok there as DAC will do all MQA heavy-lifting.

Just I would like to add here that in this scenario DAC should be a "MQA full decoder" which can do unfold and rendering.

 

[shyamv]

Just I would like to add here that in this scenario DAC should be a "MQA full decoder" which can do unfold and rendering.

Yes, that's right. DAC would need to be a MQA Full Decoder for third-level unfolding as opposed to a MQA renderer like Audioquest Dragonfly which can only do second-level unfolding.

 

[venkatcr]

Do you stream Spotify or Tidal with this setup? If yes how good/stable it is?

As of now I am only playing stored files. Have to test and fool around with online streaming.

Just to expand on what others (Raghu, and others) have said, I was getting tired of copying and deleting files for using with the Allo system. I had a spare laptop HDD (750GB) lying around. I got out and picked up a case for it that has two USB points on the other end - one for data and the other for power. Connected it to the Rpi3B and it works perfectly. I have kind of settled down with Moode and it scanned about 200GB of music in just a few seconds. Next step is to connect a 2TB drive with external power.

Have been playing for 4-5 hours a day without any issues. Touch wood.

 

[Kannan]

As of now I am only playing stored files. Have to test and fool around with online streaming.

Just to expand on what others (Raghu, and others) have said, I was getting tired of copying and deleting files for using with the Allo system. I had a spare laptop HDD (750GB) lying around. I got out and picked up a case for it that has two USB points on the other end - one for data and the other for power. Connected it to the Rpi3B and it works perfectly. I have kind of settled down with Moode and it scanned about 200GB of music in just a few seconds. Next step is to connect a 2TB drive with external power.

Have been playing for 4-5 hours a day without any issues. Touch wood.

I have a 1TB externally powered drive connected to the RPI and infact I am also booting off it by ditching the SD Card route. It is rock stable, I have also tested a 8TB seagate backup (the one that comes with its own supply) and it works perfectly.
The 1TB boot-cum-music-data drive has three partitions, 2 ext4 created by MoODe (around 20GB is what I have allocated) and the rest is NTFS where the music files are stored.

Booting off SD card and using USB for storing music file is though the standard way

The picoplayer thing has now triggered interest owing to native support for youtube and other streaming services via LMS unlike MoODe or the free version of Volumio.

Am yet to compare if there is any difference in sound output.

 

[raghupb]

where is the master volume control residing, if using an integrated amp or a pre, have you disabled volume control in Volumio?
Could also be a locking issue with your DAC if you have enabled upsampling, of course I don't know your chain beyond digione

I haven't faced this loudness issue. But when songs are played individually, its possible the first 1 or 2 seconds getting missed/skipped. This doesn't occur if volumio plays a list.

Quick update on the loudness issue at the start of the song.
It so happens I had set "Volume Normalization" ON while playing around with the options.
Set it to OFF and things are good now.
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[shyamv]

Quick update on the loudness issue at the start of the song.
It so happens I had set "Volume Normalization" ON while playing around with the options.
Set it to OFF and things are good now.
Cheers,
Raghu

Good that you found the issue. Did you play around with the audio resampling settings? I can't make out any difference in the sound even with this turn on. Maybe it kicks in only if software volume is turned on?

 

[raghupb]

Good that you found the issue. Did you play around with the audio resampling settings? I can't make out any difference in the sound even with this turn on. Maybe it kicks in only if software volume is turned on?

I have not attempted resampling. All of my music is 16/44.1 FLAC or 320kbps MP3.
Does it make sense to resample in this case?

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[premoddev]

Yes, resampling didn't show any noticeable difference when I tried on Moode Audio, so reverted... will be same with Volumio I guess.

 

[Navi Kumar]

I have not attempted resampling. All of my music is 16/44.1 FLAC or 320kbps MP3.
Does it make sense to resample in this case?

Cheers,
Raghu

Hi Raghu,

If any sound distortion comes from the player means.. recheck with audio resampling for the particular frequency of audio files.. so that u can be familiar for any problem that occur..

 

[raghupb]

Hi Raghu,

If any sound distortion comes from the player means.. recheck with audio resampling for the particular frequency of audio files.. so that u can be familiar for any problem that occur..

I don't think I need resampling. Will just keep it simple.
Sounds good enough without fancy settings.
For all the fancy stuff one needs a really good chain and importantly good ears.
My ears, well ... I know they are not up to snuff
Chain wise, mine is a bit above average.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[jls001]

Volume normalisation is like a servo that clamps peaks (loud passages) to a preset level and raises troughs (quiet passages) and in the process one hears uniform loudness. Listen to any medium or fast-paced Michael Jackson or Madonna track on CD to hear this. This is perhaps useful for radio stations that want to be the loudest on the dial, but dynamic swing is the causality. So it's best to avoid it for home audio.

 

[raghupb]

Volume normalisation is like a servo that clamps peaks (loud passages) to a preset level and raises troughs (quiet passages) and in the process one hears uniform loudness. Listen to any medium or fast-paced Michael Jackson or Madonna track on CD to hear this. This is perhaps useful for radio stations that want to be the loudest on the dial, but dynamic swing is the causality. So it's best to avoid it for home audio.

Yeah. I found out the weird way.
Queued up Zepp's Whole Lotta Love and when the song started I jumped out of my skin
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[Kannan]

Normalisation and replay gains work well when fed via DRC controlled setups.

But no colouration is the best colouration