The Phono Cartridge Thread

[navinsinha]

Bro Greenhorn,
Can you kindly name a few vintage carts which are still available?

 

[Fantastic]

Looks like most of the Shure and AT cartridges in the current catalog are vintage designs.Only a few are new. Like the newer Shure M97VxMR or some such thing and then there is the older M97HE . I had it. The new one must be just some stylus upgrade. Then there is the M44 and the M92 etc. Jico does make stylii and possibly better ones. I have an expensive one for my M97VxMR
Then there is the AT95E and many others.
Looks like the Shure one is now called M97xE ! If you look up the current catalog many numbers are vintage models but still being made now. The range is smaller than before but is still quite large . Especially AT.
Other brands like Ortofon have a whole new range plus a few older ones too like the OM series. But most are new designs.
Vintage ( newly made!) from Denon DL-103 are still there. I think the range is better than it was 5 years ago ! That maybe because Vinyl is waking up again.....at least for a while ! Might get pushed into the really niche market at stratospheric prices. The marketing man's dream come true !

One alarming thing I find is the increased prices. The AT-ML440 is now four times the price compared to what it was 3 years ago ! Wonder what's happening !

 

[greenhorn]

my point was that nobody talks about vintage carts around here. given that we have so many posts about vintage TTs, where are the posts about the vintage carts?
they stopped making vintage TT's long back, we still talk about them.

 

[Fantastic]

Vintage cartridges should not live long enough to be discussed widely. Their elastomer support would have degraded by hardening or cracking. So you really could not talk about them. A new cantilever and stylus possibly would be very much more expensive than buying a new one. In which case they wouldn't be vintage anymore !

Surprisingly not all turntables made today are designed from scratch !
The Technics 12xx series are being made again ! Maybe there are others too. What do we call it. New Vintage turntable !

But you can find many 'new' turntables with platter and chassis heavier than your whole family ! Interesting to see how far manufacturers will go AND have sales too !

 

[greenhorn]

I've read of some pretty decent MM cart's that are still doing good - Shure M91 and M75 series, V15, Stanton 681

Plus buying a jico stylus is still cheaper, and in most cases still better than an entry level shure cart

 

[jls001]

May be we can't recommend them anymore as they're not easy to buy (even used) anymore

To be fair, models like the various Marks of V15 do come up in the market. And the best part is one can buy very fine replacement stylii for such models.

I would love to listen to a good Nagaoka MM.

My personal hoard of vintage carts are Shure M3D, Shure V15/III, Shure M55, Ortofon MC20 Super and Ortofon Kontrapunkt b (both in need of retip), and a Decca London Super Gold. I don't know if my Denon 103 also qualifies as vintage - it's been in continuous production since 1963.

 

[Fantastic]

I don't know if my Denon 103 also qualifies as vintage - it's been in continuous production since 1963.

This one has been highly regarded over the years.It is vintage (design). I've yet to hear about anyone not liking it . It will be different from many others but people still do like them.
It's like wine. There are several types and you like them all for their own different reasons.

 

[greenhorn]

The reason to ask this is because I've managed to get hold of a decent stash of vintage carts stalking ebay while I'm here on work. All of them are running generic styluses from Ed saunders, pfanstiehl etc.

I know these hfv folks have these carts because I've seen them show up on the FS threads, or are mentioned casually while discussing carts, but no reviews of them at all.

 

[jls001]

... but no reviews of them at all.

Not a full-fledged review, but here's my brief executive summary in post#8

 

[jls001]

I missed a very important cartridge which has now been rendered vintage as it is no longer manufactured - the Denon DL 160 HOMC. It currently does duty on my TD 124/I.

 

[Selvin]

Done stylus replacement in Shure M70B from JICO. Experience as below..

My recently acquired Technics SL-Q3 came with broken stylus Shure M70B Encore series cartridge. Required stylus for this cartridge is N70B spherical tip. Decided to upgrade N70EJ elliptical tip and placed order to JICO. Got delivery in 9 days through Japan Post & India Post. Packing quality was nice.

Replaced the stylus.. simple plug in task. JICO recommended 1.5 - 3g tracking force and after google I end up at 1.7g. Sat for listening with a known album. Initial feel was good but after listening two.. three tracks felt bore and something missing. The sound was louder and thicker, less detail, poor stereo image and worst part was ear fatigue. Tried different tracking force but nothing to note. Usually cartridges at different tracking forces the tonality change slightly. But here I could not able to notice even that. I satisfied myself as "sound may improve after break-in"

Almost after 30 hours usage simply increased the tracking force to 2.25g and this time my ear noticed the tonal change. Start to reduce the tracking force in steps of 0.05g and at 2g got the sound what I want. Balanced, detailed and better image everything is good. Now more than 50 hours over and now sound is even better.

So far I used Ortofon OM5, AT-91, AT-95, AT-120E and EEI Classic 700. I like AT-120E and Classic 700 but both not work well with all kind of music. This Shure working well with all kind of music. Simply amazing performance for the price paid. No inner grove distortion and no record surface noise compare to my previous Classic 700.

Recommended JICO for those who have body of M70 or M75 Cartridges and looking for a sweet sounding stylus.

 

[reubensm]

Done stylus replacement in Shure M70B from JICO. Experience as below..

My recently acquired Technics SL-Q3 came with broken stylus Shure M70B Encore series cartridge. Required stylus for this cartridge is N70B spherical tip. Decided to upgrade N70EJ elliptical tip and placed order to JICO. Got delivery in 9 days through Japan Post & India Post. Packing quality was nice.

Replaced the stylus.. simple plug in task. JICO recommended 1.5 - 3g tracking force and after google I end up at 1.7g. Sat for listening with a known album. Initial feel was good but after listening two.. three tracks felt bore and something missing. The sound was louder and thicker, less detail, poor stereo image and worst part was ear fatigue. Tried different tracking force but nothing to note. Usually cartridges at different tracking forces the tonality change slightly. But here I could not able to notice even that. I satisfied myself as "sound may improve after break-in"

Almost after 30 hours usage simply increased the tracking force to 2.25g and this time my ear noticed the tonal change. Start to reduce the tracking force in steps of 0.05g and at 2g got the sound what I want. Balanced, detailed and better image everything is good. Now more than 50 hours over and now sound is even better.

So far I used Ortofon OM5, AT-91, AT-95, AT-120E and EEI Classic 700. I like AT-120E and Classic 700 but both not work well with all kind of music. This Shure working well with all kind of music. Simply amazing performance for the price paid. No inner grove distortion and no record surface noise compare to my previous Classic 700.

Recommended JICO for those who have body of M70 or M75 Cartridges and looking for a sweet sounding stylus.

I have the very same cart and took the very same route with Jico. In my case, the performance was fantastic right from day-1. Probably this is because my cart was not stored for many years before being put back into use. It was actually running on another TT with a generic replacement stylus. The M70B is a very listenable cart, much more refined than the M44-7. I use 2g VTF and 2g antiskate. I have never tried other settings. The Jico stylus is superb. I was so happy with it that I ended up ordering a couple more. The generic stylus originally on the M70B was so bad that I ended up throwing it away. My impressions, lovely mids, smooth highs and tight bass. Instruments sound more detailed and crisp and there is some additional depth noticeable when listening to live stage performances, perhaps due to the enhanced imaging. On the flip side, the stylus is very sensitive to scratches on the record and unlike the M44-7, it cannot play older records well. Groove wear or damage is pronounced in the form of distortion and noise. But if the record is in decent condition, it is very listenable with ZERO fatigue.

 

[souravin]

Hello friends,

I am willing to have JICO SAS for my Shure M97Xe. Can any kind soul please share how the performance would be?

I am bollywood oldies guy and R.D.Burman fanatic and almost each record I have handpicked with near mint quality, hence scratch won't be an issue.

Thanks in advance.

Sourav

 

[sachu888]

Hello friends,

I am willing to have JICO SAS for my Shure M97Xe. Can any kind soul please share how the performance would be?

I am bollywood oldies guy and R.D.Burman fanatic and almost each record I have handpicked with near mint quality, hence scratch won't be an issue.

Thanks in advance.

Sourav

Currently Bhaskerda and previously Raghu has used SAS for M97xe. You can ask them.
I have used JICO elliptical for my M55 and it was very good.

Regards
Sachin

 

[greenhorn]

has anyone bought jico needles from ebay US/Korea?
the sellers there have EVG jico's available for cheaper than the jico website. I bought from both of them when I was in the UK, but havent tried in india

 

[Selvin]

has anyone bought jico needles from ebay US/Korea?
the sellers there have EVG jico's available for cheaper than the jico website. I bought from both of them when I was in the UK, but havent tried in india

I am wondering how it is feasible and possible? As per JICO site FAQ they don't have any dealer.

 

[souravin]

Currently Bhaskerda and previously Raghu has used SAS for M97xe. You can ask them.
I have used JICO elliptical for my M55 and it was very good.

Regards
Sachin

Thanks Sachin. Will do.

 

[greenhorn]

I am wondering how it is feasible and possible? As per JICO site FAQ they don't have any dealer.

They are not Jico branded, but EVG branded with Jico as OEM. Folks at audiokarma have confirmed this as they have the trademark dot on the cantilever, and sound the same. EVG probably buys in bulk, & is able to offer them at cheaper rates than jico (which does the distribution from japan).

However the EVG Jico stylus options are rather limited compared to the jico site

 

[Selvin]

Very good information...

 

[reubensm]

I have the very same cart and took the very same route with Jico. In my case, the performance was fantastic right from day-1. Probably this is because my cart was not stored for many years before being put back into use. It was actually running on another TT with a generic replacement stylus. The M70B is a very listenable cart, much more refined than the M44-7. I use 2g VTF and 2g antiskate. I have never tried other settings. The Jico stylus is superb. I was so happy with it that I ended up ordering a couple more. The generic stylus originally on the M70B was so bad that I ended up throwing it away. My impressions, lovely mids, smooth highs and tight bass. Instruments sound more detailed and crisp and there is some additional depth noticeable when listening to live stage performances, perhaps due to the enhanced imaging. On the flip side, the stylus is very sensitive to scratches on the record and unlike the M44-7, it cannot play older records well. Groove wear or damage is pronounced in the form of distortion and noise. But if the record is in decent condition, it is very listenable with ZERO fatigue.

Correction: I just noticed (from the colour) that Selvin purchased the N70EJ Jico stylus, while I purchased the N70B Jico Stylus (whitish cream colour). This could be the reason behind the difference in experience, especially initially