Soundstage
Active Member
Not to doubt your experience in the least!
Maybe Mr. Chona was nursing the wounds from a fight with the boss at home that day....
The What Hi Fi Show 2013!
- Thread starter bhagwan
- Start date
Not to doubt your experience in the least!
Maybe Mr. Chona was nursing the wounds from a fight with the boss at home that day....
kapvin
Well-Known Member
So here's my two penny's worth..
I went on the last day for a brief period. I went "En famille" (it's never too early for an Hifi education). obviously there was crowd and then, everyone was keen on winding up.
What I looked for
1. Midrange articulation
2. overall tonal balance
3. Bass clarity
4. Bass extension (vs. Size)
what I did not fuss about
1. imaging ( there were some rooms with set up issues, i tried to look around them)
2. Uneven bass (when caused by setup issues - Eg Legacy)
the Disappointments (for me .. up front)
biggest disappointment - the Golden ears Triton 2s. Have heard so much about them (yes, I subscribe to stereophile), but when i heard them, they sounded a bit congested and crowded. Nice deep bass, and the demo guy spoke about room acoustics but heard the diamond 800s, in the same room and there was miles of difference in articulation.
Other disappointments
- Revel Salon 2. - Have heard so much about these, but they sounded "not very clear" and definitely not together. these are gigantic multicomponent speakers in a very small room, it's possible that they did not have space to "sum". or maybe it was the antimode device.
- Bryston - Could not find much good in it. but again same issue as the revels. (revels had much better tonal balance)
Others that I heard
1. B&W nautilius - My wife found it a bit dull.(i guess she found it too dry) I found that it takes a bit of getting used too. But once you do, it spoils other speakers for you. amazing bass extension (and not in your face) and really tight dry sound. Fantastic! Can only imagine how it will sound in a larger room.
2. B&W diamond 800s - clearly needed a bigger room. but that clarity and articulation just shone through if you were in the sweet spot. wife loved the sound. wife hated the looks. (why does it need to look like a robot?). I found them really good.
3. Sonodyne active towers - I was told that they are under development, so I'll reserve comment, except to say that it is nice to see indian speaker manufacturers using Science (I assume those midrange waveguides are not for aesthetics)
4. Sonodyne active bookshelves - I heard some limited music on this but it seemed promising. i have not idea of the price, so cannot judge
5. Burmester towers - wife loved them. there was a cohesiveness about the sound which the whole family loved. again, small room, big speakers, but these did quite well despite the placement challenge. I found them very promising. Not the cleanest sound, but tonally very balanced. A speaker you can live with everyday
6. Burmester Bookshelves - they sounded a whole lot different from the towers. and not that hot.
7. Dynaudio - some small bookshelves were playing (forget the name). Oh, How lovely the music sounded! I could not hear my choice of music and there was a crowd, but these are speakers for a mumbaikar. play well in a small room, clean sound. decent bass. Rs3 l is a bit steep, but you get quality.
8. PMC - I much admit to a bit of bias. I never met a pmc speaker that I did not like. The Monitor speakers that the Mr. Jilla got at the last-to-last HFV meet, the 3 ways that came for the last HFV meet (that sound is pretty close to what I call my personal reference) and then these. my wife fell in love with them. given a choice, she'd have purchased that entire system there and then. If there one set of speakers, that I'd say you can purchase with your eyes closed, it is these. small, unobstrusive, but lacking in almost nothing. only caveat ( i don't know how loud they go, but they really sounded good at moderate listening Levels. Wife's overall star of the show.
9. Paradigm signature series - The large ones have good tone, decent bass and good clarity. overall, quite nice for the money.
10. Legacy Audio -big tower, small room, bad idea. But clearly the speakers have potential. both the wife and I prefered the cheaper passives, to the larger and much more expensive actives (but both were huge)
11. Focal Stella - when we went to the room, some smaller focals were playing. and sounding (IMHO) rather unimpressive. We we just leaving when Khusrau walked in, and suggested we listen to the stella, and got the dealer to hook them up. (thanks, man). these were the absolute stars of the show. outstanding tonality, great clarity. and most of all the sheer effortlessness of the music just blew me away. expensive, but you really, really get what you paid for.
I regret I could not hear Joseph Audio. SEAS Mg drivers done right sound awesome. Also could not hear most of the others.
For me the stars were a toss up between the Nautilius and Stella. Absolute control on one side and absolute effortlessness on the other side. eventually I guess my vote goes to stella.
it was nice meeting some forum members there. Congrats & thank you to What hifi for organising the show!
I went on the last day for a brief period. I went "En famille" (it's never too early for an Hifi education). obviously there was crowd and then, everyone was keen on winding up.
What I looked for
1. Midrange articulation
2. overall tonal balance
3. Bass clarity
4. Bass extension (vs. Size)
what I did not fuss about
1. imaging ( there were some rooms with set up issues, i tried to look around them)
2. Uneven bass (when caused by setup issues - Eg Legacy)
the Disappointments (for me .. up front)
biggest disappointment - the Golden ears Triton 2s. Have heard so much about them (yes, I subscribe to stereophile), but when i heard them, they sounded a bit congested and crowded. Nice deep bass, and the demo guy spoke about room acoustics but heard the diamond 800s, in the same room and there was miles of difference in articulation.
Other disappointments
- Revel Salon 2. - Have heard so much about these, but they sounded "not very clear" and definitely not together. these are gigantic multicomponent speakers in a very small room, it's possible that they did not have space to "sum". or maybe it was the antimode device.
- Bryston - Could not find much good in it. but again same issue as the revels. (revels had much better tonal balance)
Others that I heard
1. B&W nautilius - My wife found it a bit dull.(i guess she found it too dry) I found that it takes a bit of getting used too. But once you do, it spoils other speakers for you. amazing bass extension (and not in your face) and really tight dry sound. Fantastic! Can only imagine how it will sound in a larger room.
2. B&W diamond 800s - clearly needed a bigger room. but that clarity and articulation just shone through if you were in the sweet spot. wife loved the sound. wife hated the looks. (why does it need to look like a robot?). I found them really good.
3. Sonodyne active towers - I was told that they are under development, so I'll reserve comment, except to say that it is nice to see indian speaker manufacturers using Science (I assume those midrange waveguides are not for aesthetics)
4. Sonodyne active bookshelves - I heard some limited music on this but it seemed promising. i have not idea of the price, so cannot judge
5. Burmester towers - wife loved them. there was a cohesiveness about the sound which the whole family loved. again, small room, big speakers, but these did quite well despite the placement challenge. I found them very promising. Not the cleanest sound, but tonally very balanced. A speaker you can live with everyday
6. Burmester Bookshelves - they sounded a whole lot different from the towers. and not that hot.
7. Dynaudio - some small bookshelves were playing (forget the name). Oh, How lovely the music sounded! I could not hear my choice of music and there was a crowd, but these are speakers for a mumbaikar. play well in a small room, clean sound. decent bass. Rs3 l is a bit steep, but you get quality.
8. PMC - I much admit to a bit of bias. I never met a pmc speaker that I did not like. The Monitor speakers that the Mr. Jilla got at the last-to-last HFV meet, the 3 ways that came for the last HFV meet (that sound is pretty close to what I call my personal reference) and then these. my wife fell in love with them. given a choice, she'd have purchased that entire system there and then. If there one set of speakers, that I'd say you can purchase with your eyes closed, it is these. small, unobstrusive, but lacking in almost nothing. only caveat ( i don't know how loud they go, but they really sounded good at moderate listening Levels. Wife's overall star of the show.
9. Paradigm signature series - The large ones have good tone, decent bass and good clarity. overall, quite nice for the money.
10. Legacy Audio -big tower, small room, bad idea. But clearly the speakers have potential. both the wife and I prefered the cheaper passives, to the larger and much more expensive actives (but both were huge)
11. Focal Stella - when we went to the room, some smaller focals were playing. and sounding (IMHO) rather unimpressive. We we just leaving when Khusrau walked in, and suggested we listen to the stella, and got the dealer to hook them up. (thanks, man). these were the absolute stars of the show. outstanding tonality, great clarity. and most of all the sheer effortlessness of the music just blew me away. expensive, but you really, really get what you paid for.
I regret I could not hear Joseph Audio. SEAS Mg drivers done right sound awesome. Also could not hear most of the others.
For me the stars were a toss up between the Nautilius and Stella. Absolute control on one side and absolute effortlessness on the other side. eventually I guess my vote goes to stella.
it was nice meeting some forum members there. Congrats & thank you to What hifi for organising the show!
OMG, look at that Sonodyne. Guys, did any of you listen to it? Do you have specs? What are your impressions? Is it active/powered (forgive me for using them interchangeably 
)
Their website does is not updated with details of the new speakers
)Their website does is not updated with details of the new speakers
bhagwan
Well-Known Member
OMG, look at that Sonodyne. Guys, did any of you listen to it? Do you have specs? What are your impressions? Is it active/powered (forgive me for using them interchangeably
Their website does is not updated with details of the new speakers
Great Effort.
Huge Presence in the Show.
Had 3 rooms.
Had organised a party for HFV Members - no one came. Sad.
The products are good.
I personally felt that they were a bit too steep [on the price front]
If the speakers had a MSRP of 35 % less, they would make super products.
I have pics on the other machine - will post soon.
spirovious
Well-Known Member
Totally agree.I too find they are much expensive.
bhagwan
Well-Known Member
3inch + Tweeter + Sub [Speaker set for Computer] is priced @ 55/- K
This is way too expensive.
This can & should be priced @ 40/-K with a 30 % Dealer Margin Included.
That is the only way it can sell in volumes.
Else, 5 pairs per city & that may be the end of it....
Just mho...
Ex Factory [Direct Web based] price should be 30/- K on the outer side.
spirovious
Well-Known Member
My thoughts are simple about pricing-
If we are buying international product in India with say MRP Rs.50000, same product you can get in their country for Rs.30000 or less(with online offer).Because there is shipping,customs and other charges,price in India goes high.Still if someone purchase online and ships to India,we get landing price Rs.40000 or less.
So my views are why Indian product should be so costly and prices similar to international brands here?The same product in their country is so cheaper,then why cant Indian product be cheaper in India?In that case Indian consumers have option to go after imported brand due to similar cost.
Let Indian company make profit in International market.There are few other Indian companies which makes hifi products with affordable prices and many HFV-FMs are using them happily.
If we are buying international product in India with say MRP Rs.50000, same product you can get in their country for Rs.30000 or less(with online offer).Because there is shipping,customs and other charges,price in India goes high.Still if someone purchase online and ships to India,we get landing price Rs.40000 or less.
So my views are why Indian product should be so costly and prices similar to international brands here?The same product in their country is so cheaper,then why cant Indian product be cheaper in India?In that case Indian consumers have option to go after imported brand due to similar cost.
Let Indian company make profit in International market.There are few other Indian companies which makes hifi products with affordable prices and many HFV-FMs are using them happily.
alipardiwala
New Member
Hey all, thanks for coming and making the show a success.
Was good to meet a lot of you, including Bhagwan (it turns out we went White Water Rafting in Rishikesh together a few years ago), Denom, Mpw and Magma (who I met for the first time in his Magma avatar, have known him for years as my neighbour Khozema).
Have to add, I may have been making more visits to Khushroo's room than any of the others while running about the Trident
Photoshoot also done, everyone's rooms have been shot.
Needless to say, it's been a successful show and we're happy to be a part of it. Nishant paid for the team's celebratory dinner and drinks yesterday, so that's proof that it was a success
Also needless to say, I didn't go to office today.
The last week has been very tiring, especially shuttling back and forth between Trident and the grounds where APS/Stuff/WHF's big shows were happening, hope you all got a chance to check that out as well.
But the editor has issued orders and we're all expected back at work tomorrow. Anniversary issue of WHF will be out in the first week of November and someone needs to be working on it. Expect a large report on the show in the issue too.
Till next time...
Was good to meet a lot of you, including Bhagwan (it turns out we went White Water Rafting in Rishikesh together a few years ago), Denom, Mpw and Magma (who I met for the first time in his Magma avatar, have known him for years as my neighbour Khozema).
Have to add, I may have been making more visits to Khushroo's room than any of the others while running about the Trident
Photoshoot also done, everyone's rooms have been shot.
Needless to say, it's been a successful show and we're happy to be a part of it. Nishant paid for the team's celebratory dinner and drinks yesterday, so that's proof that it was a success
Also needless to say, I didn't go to office today.
The last week has been very tiring, especially shuttling back and forth between Trident and the grounds where APS/Stuff/WHF's big shows were happening, hope you all got a chance to check that out as well.
But the editor has issued orders and we're all expected back at work tomorrow. Anniversary issue of WHF will be out in the first week of November and someone needs to be working on it. Expect a large report on the show in the issue too.
Till next time...
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alipardiwala
New Member
Also, was reading some of the earlier posts and what alarmed me a little bit was the news about an Audio Vision India exhibitor charging a Rs. 500 fee for entry to their room. While all of the exhibitors had the right to open and shut their rooms as per their convenience (maintenance, cleaning, VIP visit, 'damage to the product', etc.), none of them had any right to charge any 'entry fees' to their rooms, and they certainly had no right to discriminate against show visitors. Choosing to admit to refuse admission to any visitor who had paid the show admission fee was wrong. Now it's all the past and nothing can be done about it, but I wish the person who had suffered this victimization had brought this to the attention of anyone wearing an 'organiser' badge, we would have taken this up with the exhibitor immediately. This will of course be brought up by me in the show debriefing.
Also, there was in fact damage to one of the products in the B&W room. However, at this stage, it's still unclear as to who caused the damage and when. The position of the exhibitor is that Trident housekeeping must have caused the damage, but we'll be checking the CCTV footage from the corridors and card swipe records to see if their room was accessed by any unauthorized person, and solve that situation accordingly.
Also, there was in fact damage to one of the products in the B&W room. However, at this stage, it's still unclear as to who caused the damage and when. The position of the exhibitor is that Trident housekeeping must have caused the damage, but we'll be checking the CCTV footage from the corridors and card swipe records to see if their room was accessed by any unauthorized person, and solve that situation accordingly.
kapvin
Well-Known Member
was that the "ding" on the dust cap of the nautilius woofer? It might make the speaker less saleable, but i am unsure if it would have any significant effect accoustically.
Ozzstriker
Member
Also, was reading some of the earlier posts and what alarmed me a little bit was the news about an Audio Vision India exhibitor charging a Rs. 500 fee for entry to their room. While all of the exhibitors had the right to open and shut their rooms as per their convenience (maintenance, cleaning, VIP visit, 'damage to the product', etc.), none of them had any right to charge any 'entry fees' to their rooms, and they certainly had no right to discriminate against show visitors. Choosing to admit to refuse admission to any visitor who had paid the show admission fee was wrong. Now it's all the past and nothing can be done about it, but I wish the person who had suffered this victimization had brought this to the attention of anyone wearing an 'organiser' badge, we would have taken this up with the exhibitor immediately. This will of course be brought up by me in the show debriefing.
Adi, The person who asked me for the Rs 500 was Mr Sanjeev Chona of AVI. This was on day one. He wss dead serious, because when I felt humiliated and walked away
He didn't call me back. He wanted to keep the riff raff out I guess
Adi, The person who asked me for the Rs 500 was Mr Sanjeev Chona of AVI. This was on day one. He wss dead serious, because when I felt humiliated and walked away
He didn't call me back. He wanted to keep the riff raff out I guess
I am sorry, I didn't note it down. May be denom (who was already in the room when I entered) can help. I was too in awe of KI to bother with such trivialties
Ti believe the event was for winners of a contest on FB organised by the Marantz distributor or dealer. When I reached the hotel, I pressed the button for the 9th floor. After reaching the 9th floor, I had second thoughts and went to the 10th floor instead, thinking I must first visit Mr Khushrau Jilla. I emerged from the lift on 10th floor and was immediately accosted by a lady who asked if I wanted to participate in a presentation being given by Ken Ishiwata. "Ken Ishiwata? The Marantz guy?", I asked after I made the connection in brain. She smiled, pleased that I recognised the name and immediately herded me into the room where I went and occupied the last available chair. He started his talk with what is mono and stereo, and about Marantz 7, the company's first ever product, a tubed preamp for mono reproduction. He played a beautiful Julie London track from before WW2. Followed by his vinyl rip of Louis Armstrong's St. James Infirmary. He played these tracks as examples of how fine some old recordings were. And I totally agree.
Sorry, couldn't answer your question despite writing so much.
Denomji: please step in here with your encyclopaedic knowledge.
rikhav
Well-Known Member
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AVI owners should have closed down their room completely and end their show rather then suddenly storming in the room and swithcing off the system. I mean for gods sake there was not a fire in the room that he needed to do what he did.
Then discouraging people to demo his products by asking entry fees to enter hisbroom
I can understand that he was pissed that his product got damaged but this was no way to react specially when show was on
If he was so upset, he should have just packed all his equipment and left
Then discouraging people to demo his products by asking entry fees to enter hisbroom
I can understand that he was pissed that his product got damaged but this was no way to react specially when show was on
If he was so upset, he should have just packed all his equipment and left
alipardiwala
New Member
Kapvin: Yes, the ding on the dust cap was the damage. Didn't affect the speaker's acoustics in any way, but damage is damage and the issue is serious because even minor damage like this to expensive speakers make a massive difference to their value.
Ozzstriker: Ali*. And yes, duly noted as to who it was. As far as the organisers are concerned, Mr. Chona was a representative of Audio Vision India and the issue is with them as a whole. But again, nothing can be done about this at the moment, although this will be kept in mind when we're planning the show for 2014.
Ozzstriker: Ali*. And yes, duly noted as to who it was. As far as the organisers are concerned, Mr. Chona was a representative of Audio Vision India and the issue is with them as a whole. But again, nothing can be done about this at the moment, although this will be kept in mind when we're planning the show for 2014.
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Bro, 'Absolute Sound' are distributors of Joseph Audio Speakers & Dealers of Tannoy Speakes, that itself should tell you the reason
They (Absolute Sound) wanted 2 rooms but were not given as per their requirement (next to or opposite each other) so that they could manage them well. So they decided to stick to 1 room only. Lets also be fair to them as they had the Tannoy Turnberry's with the ST200 Super Tweeters in place for demo on 17th & 18th, after which they set up the Joseph Audio Perspective's on the 19th & 20th, so there! Tells you to attend atleast 2 days of the show rather than 1, doesn't it ? :lol: Moreover, they did set up the Tannoys yet again on the 19th post 7pm, on special request from a few visitors, so big round of :clapping: for Absolute Sound!
Sid, this was my first show post getting my feet deep into this hobby so let me share my views on your views quoted. Yes, rooms were a disaster & the exhibitors struggled, but there were also 2 exhibitors who 'cracked' their respective room issues. What does that say??? For me, it shows capacity of the person(s) & that they did their 'home work' + came prepared to tackle the problems. If an exhibitor has these qualities in him, no room is or can be an issue for them, anywhere in the world. :indifferent14: Such people are the ones to appreciate & applaud for their dedication/passion!
100% correct & reaffirms my POV :clapping:
sometimes you can tell if the synergy works and you can also tell if it just isn't special. It will help you narrow down what you would like to try in your room (if possible) or at a dealer's showroom.
However, shows are exciting and tiring and you always leave with some freebees usually (and a lot of brochures to pour over later) !!
Yes, 100% true & so attending shows are none the less good as you learn a lot not only about the gears on display but also of the people dealing/distributing them in the particular country relevant to you
Sid, the Bryston set up consisted of
Model T Passive Speakers
BCD-1 CDP
BP6 Pre Amp
7BSST Mono Block Power Amps
I will be writing more about them & of the other gears that I spent time with & their respective prices in a separate thread with pics shortly
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Hi all
still dead tired
recovery time 2 days
the show did well
What hi fi has built the foundations from where it can catapult the future of serious Hifi
I just hope they keep the momentum going and do this every year
Kuddos to them
It was well managed and i must give them full marks for this first effort
Their decision to have this in the trident was absolutely spot on
It filtered out the serious listeners from the casual passer bys on the grounds
i am sure most brand owners felt this way
Bel canto amplification was another pleasant surprise for me
They may infact be my next upgrade
My fav home theatre by far was the legacy
A pleasant surprise to hear them playing smoothly for such large panels
clear dialaogue, surrounds play well without overbearing the fronts, No hocus pocus
My choice for anyone with a 10l budget ( well even if they had double - my advice would still be the legacy )
I love the Diablos - unfortunately they were not setup to play
I just fell in love with Mr Jeff Rowlands creations
I salute the man
His engineering is phenomenal
The right Nautilus dust cab had a small dent 0.75inch dia - since its an all aluminium dust cab
this is not an easy fix
Cause is yet to be found out
However i cant beleive that the room was left unattended to with that kind of gear in it plus the battalion of staff the burge has
About the room charge
i was never charged - i enterered the room multiple times to meet Burge
I actually enquired with Mr C ( when a and FM spoke about it )
- he said it was a joke ( well at least thats his official comment )
still dead tired
recovery time 2 days
the show did well
What hi fi has built the foundations from where it can catapult the future of serious Hifi
I just hope they keep the momentum going and do this every year
Kuddos to them
It was well managed and i must give them full marks for this first effort
Their decision to have this in the trident was absolutely spot on
It filtered out the serious listeners from the casual passer bys on the grounds
i am sure most brand owners felt this way
Bel canto amplification was another pleasant surprise for me
They may infact be my next upgrade
My fav home theatre by far was the legacy
A pleasant surprise to hear them playing smoothly for such large panels
clear dialaogue, surrounds play well without overbearing the fronts, No hocus pocus
My choice for anyone with a 10l budget ( well even if they had double - my advice would still be the legacy )
I love the Diablos - unfortunately they were not setup to play
I just fell in love with Mr Jeff Rowlands creations
I salute the man
His engineering is phenomenal
The right Nautilus dust cab had a small dent 0.75inch dia - since its an all aluminium dust cab
this is not an easy fix
Cause is yet to be found out
However i cant beleive that the room was left unattended to with that kind of gear in it plus the battalion of staff the burge has
About the room charge
i was never charged - i enterered the room multiple times to meet Burge
I actually enquired with Mr C ( when a and FM spoke about it )
- he said it was a joke ( well at least thats his official comment )
alphacentury100
Well-Known Member
@ GTM - I never visited on Sunday - so I may be wrong.
The CD Player in the PTC Room was a Oppo & not a Pioneer - at least till Saturday Night.
Some more pics :-
Uploaded with ImageShack.com
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ARE MY EYES DECEIVING ME OR WHAT? THE KEF R900 HAS A MRP OF RS.215000 HERE IN THESE PHOTOS, BUT it has a MRP of Rs.315000 on the ProFx site. Which is CORRECT? wish that, what we see in this photo is the new mrp.
ghatgepatil
Active Member
To embarrass an unsuspecting visitor ..... asking for an uncalled-for fee .... in a way telling a buyer ' Hey, you can't afford it, so buzz off! UNPARDONABLE, even if touted as a joke in good humour. The guy who suffered might never look at that brand again, IMO.
Forgot to add
there were a lot of big players who came in for a listen too
there were at least 3 members of the 1 cr club ( i think ) whome i met
there were probably more whome i never knew
i must say - Some of them have really astute hearing
pointing out position changes upto 4mm
Lucky Ali walked in casually on friday to visit the BWs
Burge made a sale with the 800 diamonds
there were a lot of big players who came in for a listen too
there were at least 3 members of the 1 cr club ( i think ) whome i met
there were probably more whome i never knew
i must say - Some of them have really astute hearing
pointing out position changes upto 4mm
Lucky Ali walked in casually on friday to visit the BWs
Burge made a sale with the 800 diamonds
Order now for just ₹19,990.00
