Thiel CS 3.7

Synergy: Thiel CS 3.7 + Mark Levinson + CD/SACD player

Dears,

I have another question and I would appreciate your answer.

I have a Mark Levinson (ML) Pr:380S and Power: ML333.
I am seriously intentioned (let say, convict) to buy the Thiel CS 3.7.
My new question:

Which would be the choise of CD/SACD player for the ML above?
I know there is another CD/SACD fantastic player of ML (ML 512) as is its price, as well....

Could you please give some tips of a good synergy of Players CD/SACD (could be another brand) for the Mark Levinson/Thiels 3.7 ?

Thank you very much,
Carlos
 
Hi,

I was thinking on Simaudio MOON 750D, Marantz SA-7S1, Esoteric X-01 D2, but not expensive as Mark Levinson 512, Naim 555, etc...

Thanks,
Carlos
 
Hi,

In reality, I am very interested in Simaudio MOON 750D.
But I do not know how would be the sound with the Mark Levinson/Thiel 3.7 !!!!
Anyone listened to them?

Thanks,
Carlos
 
My only experience with a Sim Audio Moon CD player was in an all Sim Audio+Dynaudio Confidence setup. I went away ridiculously impressed by it. The sound-staging was spot on, there was incredible top to bottom detailing and it did female vocals exquisitely.

If there's something I'd want to crib about, it was the relative lack of low bass compared to a few other setups that I've heard. I'm not sure if it was the amp or the cd player which was the cause of it. If you could audition it in your setup, nothing like it.
 
I don't think i've heard any of the three form your list. But form what i understand there is huge price diff between the esoteric(arnd US $15K) , the sim audio ( arnd us 1.5K) & the marantz (arnd US$ 7K). The esoteric is as expensive as the ML.
Cheers
 
My Friends,

Sorry for my delay.
I would like to thank to everyone that gave me importants tips.

I wish you a Happy and Healthy new Year 2010:clapping:.

Thank you very much,
Hugs,
Carlos
 
Carlos

Here's an comparison how the 2 speakers, i.e. Thiel CS 3.7 and B&W 802D behave electrically with an amplifier.

Look the 3.7 measurements. The Solid Line is the Impedance while the dashed Line is the phase behavior.
The Impedance of the 3.7 is generally low, with the power band sapping at 3 ohms most of the time. At 60Hz, the phase is 40 deg capacitive and the overall phase then improves over the low impedance power band to better status, hence relieving somewhat the amplifier.

Nevertheless, 3.7 will require a high-current amplifier which should be adequately stable when phase starts to play up. 3.7 also likes to be driven hard, so needs power. The ML-333 which is a 300 watter will basically be outputting greater than 600 watts when hooked to the 3.7. This is good enough to drive the 3.7 well.

B&W 802D's electrical impedance & phase behavior is quite different from the 3.7. The 802D's impedance sits around 3.5 ohms most of the power band from 70-700Hz hence sapping power out of the amplifier while the phase is jumping about, playing gymnastics from 50 deg capacitive to 50 deg inductive, hence really creating a turmoil to the amplifier and throwing it about.

Due to this problem with the 802D, and also the 801D and 800D, most demanding installations worldwide biamp their speakers, with 2 identical high-current, high power amplifiers in a vertical arrangement. This allows the speaker much effortless drive, the amplifier in-turn is relieved & happy to drive the drivers, and provides the true sound which B&W created that lesser setups cannot achieve, so customers blame the speaker as not satisfying enough for the money. These B&Ws require high quality amplification and the moment you give them that, they deliver the goods big time!

Since you own the ML-333, I suggest its is ok to start with the 802D. In time, you may look into sourcing another 333 and park it in a vertical biamp arrangement, i.e. stereo amp next to the each speaker, and this would facilitate independent drive to low freq / mid-high freq while also monoblocking.

I guarantee if and when you get to this situation, that speaker will overtake a lot of speakers in its way. The dynamics will "frighten you".

Cheers! And have a good day!

P.S. Just for your comfort, B&W UK factory Demo rooms before they acquired "Classe" used to demo their upper level speakers like N800/N801/N802 with ML electronics, mostly the 33 or the 33H. I've also seen the 336 x 2 in some cases.

You are either a B&W dealer or bent upon creating misinformation.
I can send you measurement charts clearly showing that the venerable B&W Nautilus speakers are inaccurate w.r.t. time and phase and the Thiels are accurate speakers with time and phase alignment.
Any serious hifi person will consider the B&W way behind the Thiel as far as sound is concerned. Of course, it all depends on what you want to hear. If it is purity, accuracy and true sound, go for the Thiel. If it is just to please your ears, go for the B&W.

murali
 
Dears,

Lets go for a little bit one of firewood in the bonfire.
Using the Mark Levinson Pre=380S plus Power ML=333.

Between the Thiel 3.7 and DALI Helicon 800MKII.
Which sounds better ( and I mean in naturally, dimension, organicity, details, purity, accuracy, true sound, musicality (having change to hear in low volume and never, never fatiguing).

Thanks,
Carlos
 
Last edited:
I've never really liked the dali's.
If not placed well they've a coherence problem & To me the ribbon does get bright on the dali's.

If you want an ESl like transparency than i don't think the Theils are for you.
I would still encourage you to look at the mangers. It has a very good balance of the things you are looking for in the speakers.
All the best.
Cheers
 
Hi Neo,

I did not understand the expession.
What you mean with "ESl like transparency".

Thanks,
Carlos
 
Umm.......... tough one for me to put it in words but Ill try. My ref to an ESL was due to you mulling over the ribbon & the diamond tweeter.

In an ESL Musical transparency can be better than in electrodynamics speakers because it's radiating surface is lighter than most other drivers and therefore it has a better transient response. From what Ive gathered the best dome tweeters have a settling time of 130 -150 micro seconds whereas a planar or an ESL settles at less than approx 25micro seconds. Normally an ESL does not have the usual crossover filters and enclosures that could color or distort the sound. They are very placement sensitive but once you get a good lock they can give a more accurate stereo reproduction of recordings that contain proper stereo information and venue ambience.

If you've heard a planar or an ESL you might be able to gauge what Im driving at. I hope you can hear what you buy before you take a call on your speakers.

I hope my explanation helps you a bit, but I guess cranky, audio engr or someone with more insight can explain it a bit better.
All the best.
Cheers.
 
Hi Neo,
Only now I understood what ESL (Electrostatic Speakers) means.
No, No, No, they are very ugly.

And on my room my wife accept only Thiel 3.7 (her preference), B&W802D, and Revel Ultima, after a a lot of reviews.
We are listening both in March/2010:yahoo:.

Thanks to all for your help.
Hugs,

Carlos
 
Hello I must say people on this link are very technical. However neither mentioned speakers are sounding like music, good audio yes, music no. My suggestion would be look elsewhere for music satisfaction.
 
and where would this 'elsewhere' be? any constructive suggestions?

Hello I must say people on this link are very technical. However neither mentioned speakers are sounding like music, good audio yes, music no. My suggestion would be look elsewhere for music satisfaction.
 
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