A new window...Technics SL1210mk2

[mpw]

Hi,

Some of you would know i have a Technics SL23 belt drive version and am very happy with it.

This thread is part - musings and part serious ( maybe some of you will learn a few things from it ) and so i took some pictures which will be posted at a later stage.

The background :-

The Technics SL 23 been with me for nearly 1.5 years ( and producing very good sound with a nice flow and dynamics ) but slowly the urge to try something "better " caught up with me.

My shortlist criteria was fairly simple :-

a. Budget of about 40k approx

b. Direct drive ( since i already had a belt drive )

c. My cart DL 103 must be a good fit on it. For some reason, i am quite fixated with this cart and cant seem to "let go " to try something different. In reality - i never felt the need to.

d. Easy to maintain and good upgrade possibilities.

e. Possibility of value appreciation with time ( not essential but preferable )

f. Easy availability of spares

g. The unit on sale must be well cared for and look pleasing to the eye.

All 6 of the above pointed to the Technics SL 1200 / 1210 series.

In my research, i came across no other TT with such kind of popularity and most of the folks were going ga ga over it.

So i was curious to experience this first hand myself.

Thus began my search a few months ago for the SL 1200 / SL 1210 series..

:cheers:

regards
mpw

 

[reubensm]

With the SL1200/1210 you will need to go no further. Its a fantastic table which will give you many many more years of listening joy.

 

[paras0710]

If the name Technics is not necessary then i say go for Audio Technica AT-LP120-USB as its same as Technics 1200 series plus you'll get 78 rpm capability, usb,direction switching and switchable built in pre-amp options. plus feeling of brand new turntable.
wait
i am confuse you are looking for or already got Technics?

 

[mpw]

I began by

asking around - friends & forum members
looking at hifiads almost daily and OLX etc..
ebay.co.uk
ebay.com

Some of my friends had more than 1 but since the 1200 / 1210 was so amenable to DiY mods they were unwilling to part with one ( very understandable and no complaints ). This only solidified my mind to narrow down my search to these 2 models only and no other.

Other TT's i came across was the Systemdeck iix - a contemporary of the Linn Sondek - but this was ruled out for me by the seller due to packing and transportation issues and more importantly the worry was the delicate nature of the TT and if it could withstand the rigors of the courier ( very understandable again ).

Google baba informed me that Systemdeck, Linn and Ariston were all from Scotland and Linn got ahead due to better marketing. The other 2 were consumed by Father Time.

Many times its marketing that makes the difference between survival or extinction ( given the same product quality ).

But an experienced buyer must learn to separate the rice from the chaff and not allow ONLY marketing to get in the way of music.

The Legendary Lenco L75 made its way for a fleeting few days into my consideration set but...... the universe has its way of getting you to your destination..

I was quite clear abut experiencing direct drive now and maybe maybe looking at better belt drives or idlers at a later stage of my life ( if i have the opportunity )



A Note - to all my friends reading this - i thank you from the bottom of my heart. Audio is a journey best enjoyed with friends. :cheers:

I am grateful for all the experiences i have had and will have.

regards
mpw

 

[mpw]

i looked at ebay.co.uk

mint ones were pound 550 about + shipping + duties etc... = ruled out

used but good condition were about pound 350 + shipping + duties = was workable but hesitated to take the plunge due to the sheer headache of logistics

OLX had a pair for sale but the photos werent too good at all

it seemed the Technics SL1200 / 1210 had dried up in the market....

and then i got lucky..

an advertisement appeared on hifiads.com from hyderabad and the photos looked good and the condition was worth exploring...the asking price was 35k as well which was within my budget and i jumped at it..

The owner was kind enough for a demo and to tell us about a crack on the cover of the turntable.

but the problem was i had no time to go to hyderabad so i asked a fellow FM from hyderabad check it out :cheers: and he was kind enough to check it out and let me know and it looked all was good and we closed the deal...

So... finally the Technics SL1210mk2 was mine but location - hyderabad !! - biryani city !! :licklips:

Waited for nearly 2 weeks for an opportunity to go to hyderabad and was helped immensely by our Fellow FM in arranging the packing and stuff in the few hours i had there...

the only dilemma was i had to return the same day by the night flight and i was unsure how this would be handled in the checked-in baggage..

Jet Airways staff at Hyderabad airport were nice enough to understand my request and they had a wide grin when i told them ( somewhat apprehensively ) it was an old record player and of immense sentimental value to me. My baggage was gently handled and they did all the stuff they had to security wise with gentle hands - much appreciated !

But i got home late that night and i found a nice big crack on the TT cover...



will post a photo..

regards

 

[frend2001]

Hooked to the narrative...

As you had already mentioned...

Audio is a journey best enjoyed with friend.

Keep posting the remainder of your experience.

 

[mpw]

The crack on the TT cover was rather explainable in a few ways :-

a. When we were packing up the TT in a soft top suitcase ( with lots of foam - not foam - but a black color packing material ) - it was evident we needed to protect the top of the TT well.

b. That meant lots of foam so the TT would not get a chance to move.

c. I realized, the TT cover can be taken off but i decided to try my luck and to let it remain on the TT to protect the tone arm assy.

I figured if was a 1.5 hour flight and if i could tell the airline to treat this with kid gloves - i could possibly make it fine

The bus was not an option for me as it would reach mid-day in Mumbai and frankly i got only 1 day and could not afford to go late to office the next day.

d. The platter was separately packed as was the headshell + 45 rpm adaptor and the 4 "legs " of the TT

The next day... i setup the TT on my rack and connected to the phono stage and the amp.

Did the VTF adjustment initially at 3 gm and then subsequently at 2.6 gm.

I looked up some youtube videos on setting up this TT and i realised the tone arm height was too hich.... ie the tonearm spindle was at marking 5.5 mm on the height adjustment scale on the TT and the cartridge was pointing down into the record and this would potentially dig into the grooves and spoil my records.

Tried to adjust the tonearm height adjustment mechanism - but it wouldnt budge :sad:

Better sense prevailed and spoke with a few FM's including Hiten and JLS about it..

I had a conceptual idea about what to do but i needed a better hand ( then myself ) for the job. It involved taking out the spindle and cleaning the grease and re-inserting the spindle assy back into the SL1210 - not common - not uncommon either.

One of the theories i have is that the grease must have seized up inflight in the cargo hold - where i understand temperatures can drop to below freezing at high altitudes.

Thats the only explanation i have at the moment apart from the speculation the previous owner did not notice this "mal function "

JLS was kind enough to offer his help to come home and to tale a look at the TT. I was more then pleased with this very kind gesture.

Plan to put up some pics and an explanation of what transpired in the makeshift " Operation Theater " - a small room in my home.

Many thanks jls !

regards

 

[jls001]

mpw's TT came with a curious problem - the height adjustment ring wouldn't budge! There was no other way than opening it up to figure out what was holding it back. So we ended up doing a major operation on the TT though we had not really anticipated it.

A helpful YouTube video helped immensely. We simply followed the steps in the video tutorial.

Uploading some pictures in case it helps someone who might have the same problem.

Some preliminaries:

1) Remove headshell-cartridge. Keep it in a safe place.

2) Remove platter. Keep it in a safe place.

3) You need one sturdy Philips head screwdriver and one nose plier.

4) Cleaning agent like WD 40 and naptha to clean up the old grease.

5) lots of soft tissues, old toothbrush, sewing machine oil, non-lithium grease.

Roll up foam sheet or soft pillow or soft cushion and support the turntable turned upside down. The support must not allow the pressure to come on the tonearm. Lock the tonearm securely in its lock.

Here's how:

Forgive the grainy shot. Hope you get the idea. The rolled up foam sheet is the black thing in the foreground. Notice that the outermost bottom layer of the turntable has been removed in this picture. Screws are of different sizes so keep similar screws together. It is easy to mix them up.

Here's the base of the tonearm:

Remove the three screws that hold this assembly, and also remove the earthing wire. Remember the routing of the earth wire. The black plastic assembly in the middle of the picture holds the two phono cables securely. Remove the screw and unclamp it carefully. Remember how the two wires are routed through this plastic lock.

Then remove the round steel sheet cover visible in the photo.

Once you have done that, this is what greets you:

And this was before braqckets were removed:

You need to remove the two steel brackets in the top of the photo. If you look closer you will notice that the bracket is actually two sheets. The outer bracket is roughly L shaped and this is what holds the arm height adjustment lock. Remove the circlip and washer. Please keep it safe. It's small and they tend to fly off when removed. Then remove the lower bracket by unscrewing the two screws. After this you should be able to rotate the height adjustment mechanism.

Unscrew this adjustment wheel:

Clean the hardened grease deposit on the thread. The threads are very fine (visible in the picture - shiny part at the bottom). Use old toothbrush with suitable cleaning agent like WD40 or naptha (lighter fluid). Both are combustible so avoid naked flames when using these solvents. Make sure that all traces of solvent are cleaned thoroughly after cleaning.

You can also wash it with soap:

Then clean the inner thread:

Make sure solvent doesn't touch the electronics parts within the threaded ring. Clean solvent as above.

Lightly apply non-lithium grease and screw back. Carefully fit back and adjust arm height.

 

[Record Player]

Well you really don't have to go through all that. This is a known issue on 1200s. If you have read me posts on me 1200 thread the solution to that was very simple.

These dials get jammed because of not being used in a while. All you need to do is spray WD40 around the dial and leave it overnight. Next day, voila smooth as a cat.

 

[jls001]

@RP, we should have known that! It would have saved us so much trouble. Anyway, it's nice to see what the inside of this baby looks like

 

[mpw]

Well you really don't have to go through all that. This is a known issue on 1200s. If you have read me posts on me 1200 thread the solution to that was very simple.

These dials get jammed because of not being used in a while. All you need to do is spray WD40 around the dial and leave it overnight. Next day, voila smooth as a cat.

The thought of WD40 did cross our minds but we decided to follow the youtube video and we werent sure how the tonearm spindle assy would react to WD40.

WD40 - you may be aware - is not the panacea,


It was fantastic to see the innards of this well regarded TT and probably one of the reasons why this TT is so well regarded is the way ot is constructed.

heavy material, nice damping..

RP - in an earlier post you asked about the TT cable change - i wish we had a better cable at that point in time.

I am told a belden 1855A would be nice but i did not have it. I had the Mogami 2549 but it was too thick for thei TT and to mate to the cable holder belor the spindle inside the TT.

maybe we leave this for next upgrade..

This TT is amenable to many modifications and it will be nice to try one by one.


Even now, the dials are not totally free - there is still some resistance and the lock / unlock lever ( i suspect ) is the culprit. But its stiff enough to hold at the current dial position of 1

regards
mpw

 

[Hiten]

Hi Mahesh,
Congrats ! This is a very good turntable, with very good specifications and high torque. Electronic control system is I think as good as SP-10 with three phase motor. Lots of mods are recommended by audiophiles. I would suggest let it run for few months. The Tone arm height adjustment dial should not be very free in my opinion. The geometry of tonearm should be tight. Some unipivot fans do not even prefer two axis gimbal bearing .
Lots of people say this turntable is overdamped. I do not believe so, but if you want in the future you can choose mid compliance cartridge with silver interconnects. This would change a tone little bit. But first priority should be the bearing thrust pad. This definately would improve performance. You can confirm by first noting down the platter run down time before and after. Tonearm change would be next and the last should be change of capacitors but it would require prefessional.
But honestly a totally subjective advice would be let the tonearm and electronics (I have seen capacitors holding the same capacitance value even after decades) stay as it is. As difference in sound quality are very subtle.
And most important of all enjoy the vinyl through the new window.
Regards.

 

[Hiten]

.also would like to add, your listening impression compared with previous turntable would be highly appreciated.
Regards.

 

[mpw]

Hi Mahesh,
Congrats ! This is a very good turntable, with very good specifications and high torque. Electronic control system is I think as good as SP-10 with three phase motor. Lots of mods are recommended by audiophiles. I would suggest let it run for few months. The Tone arm height adjustment dial should not be very free in my opinion. The geometry of tonearm should be tight. Some unipivot fans do not even prefer two axis gimbal bearing .
Lots of people say this turntable is overdamped. I do not believe so, but if you want in the future you can choose mid compliance cartridge with silver interconnects. This would change a tone little bit. But first priority should be the bearing thrust pad. This definately would improve performance. You can confirm by first noting down the platter run down time before and after. Tonearm change would be next and the last should be change of capacitors but it would require prefessional.
But honestly a totally subjective advice would be let the tonearm and electronics (I have seen capacitors holding the same capacitance value even after decades) stay as it is. As difference in sound quality are very subtle.
And most important of all enjoy the vinyl through the new window.
Regards.

Thanks hiten for your valuable advise and good humor.. and also for being there when i needed to chat.

am happy.. you see why i titled it this way..

its just a new window - a new way to look at the music..like playing the same rhythm thru a variation of the same instrument..

I totally agree - this TT is very pristine and i want to let it play just as it is for maybe 6 months.

Lets see after that..

I havent played hindi movie ( old film ) tracks as yet and i plan to do that today evening..

I am happy with the dial tightness and i agree it should be on the tighter side but still amenable to adjustment ( as and when required ).

It would have been a touch silly to change the stock TT RCA cables without giving it a chance to play in my rig.

best regards
mpw

 

[mpw]

.also would like to add, your listening impression compared with previous turntable would be highly appreciated.
Regards.

Hiten,

i will add that too..

I need to have a fill of the different types of music i listen to and thats why i am holding off.

Reputation is one thing and how it performs on my rig is another thing

regards
mpw

 

[Hiten]

Yes 'Looking through a new window' is very apt description of this hobby. I have noted down few points of SQ of this turntable lets see if they tally with your description in future. It would be fun
If they don't tally I have tin ears (high possibility) or need to upgrade my system :lol:

 

[Record Player]

RP - in an earlier post you asked about the TT cable change - i wish we had a better cable at that point in time.

I reckon you use the TT as stock for a while and then proceed with upgrades.

I also recommend a thorough internal and external cleaning of the deck and then use as stock. You will quickly realize the need to upgrade the stock interconnects. The upgrade can be done yourself as long as you don't burn the PCB board with the solder gun . This deck can heavily be modified. As I have two of these one I have left stock with only interconnects upgrade and the other quite a bit upgraded like cable, dampening tonearm etc.

Cheers

 

[Selvin]

I reckon you use the TT as stock for a while and then proceed with upgrades.

I also recommend a thorough internal and external cleaning of the deck and then use as stock. You will quickly realize the need to upgrade the stock interconnects. The upgrade can be done yourself as long as you don't burn the PCB board with the solder gun . This deck can heavily be modified. As I have two of these one I have left stock with only interconnects upgrade and the other quite a bit upgraded like cable, dampening tonearm etc.

Cheers

Hello RP,

The stock interconnect upgraded by which interconnect? How the sound quality after the upgrade?

 

[Record Player]

Hello RP,

The stock interconnect upgraded by which interconnect? How the sound quality after the upgrade?

I've upgraded them to Mogami 2806. Very significant sonic improvements. I have also upgraded the PCB board for the ground wire hack.

Mpw - Got your PM. Will post some pics soon of the upgrades. In the interim, this is exactly what I did as per OMs post - http://www.hifivision.com/phono-turntables/23902-success-technics-sl1200mkii-tonearm-rewire-damping.html

 

[mpw]

my impressions on the sound will be in multiple parts..

Initial impressions ( upto first 100 hours )
Stock Technics SL1210 mk2 impressions ( upto 200 hours )
Impressions after tweaks ( if any ) ( later... )

So please take this as just my observations... thats all..

have had atleast 10 hours on the TT on my rig now. I started off by listening to some VG+ presses since i thought i wanted to spin it for a bit before getting down to more serious listening.

As expected, the sound was nothing much to write home about... yes... the lower frequencies stand out but overall... i have heard better ( at similar price points )

I started then with my regular LP's ( with good quality pressing )

I think there is touch of stretch or screechiness ( if you will ) on the midrange especially in an album like ABBA in which the female vocals are a tough high pitched on some sections of some songs.

Memory Lane - Mohd Rafi - played quite well

Hits of Guru Dutt - played brilliant

Taara zameen par - played very well but just a bit of human voice "stretching and distortion " ( wondered if i need a subwoofer at all )

Maybe i need to play with the pitch controls for this or it is possible my Cartridge needle life is dwindling due to usage.

Maybe it is the high expectations... ???

But first....let it play... let it play some more...

regards