Server3249,
Your lack of faith in the Indian medium is misplaced. Or shall I say your faith in the supremacy of everything western is misplaced?
I will now redefine everything I said in a single phrase "
Epistemic Fascism"
What does this phrase mean? Wiki tells you -
An epistemic community may consist of those who accept one version of a story, or one version of validating a story.
So what I have been arguing against all the time is against a form of intellectual "fascism" that insists on applying only one world view and forcing it upon us. Almost always a Euro-Centric one. Your kind of view-points are the result of being subject to this form of fascism - every time single time you watch TV, visit a Crossword bookstore or see something on the Internet. The self-delusion is however such that one believes one is very modern and progressive, because one has so much access to information!! Earlier I chose and mentioned in metaphorical cynical and satirical terms a slang for a victim of this kind delusion - The
English Speaking Idiot! I will approach this Idiot once again after I introduce a new question. So far I have made an attempt to be original in describing the problem in my own words, in order to develop my very own mode of arguments (I owe it to myself, do I not?
) Now let us look at a small but crucial work of others.
There are some very good essays that deal with the following topics -
Is there an Indian way of doing science?
Is there an Indian way of thinking?
Here is an extract from one such good essay, please read it (the whole essay linked) to the last word:
In any scientific discourse, it is essential to achieve precision and rigour. In the
western tradition, the geometry of Euclid is considered the paradigm of an ideal
theory, and various other branches of knowledge tried to emulate Euclid by setting
out their knowledge on the basis of a formal axiomatic system. In contrast, in Indian
tradition, an attempt was made to use natural language and to refine and sharpen its
potential by technical operations so that precise discourse was possible even in natural
language. This is so, particularly in Sanskrit, where we find that even the most
abstract and metaphysical discussions regarding grammar, mathematics or logic are
still written in natural language. In Indian knowledge systems, it is the science of
linguistics that occupies the central place that, in the west, is occupied by mathematics.
Hence, traditional sciences have a different approach to achieving rigour.
From
http://www.compasnet.org/afbeeldingen/Books/Traditional Knowledge India/balasubramanian.pdf
Now you see how absurd the claim as made by that "respectable" looking scholar is? That India lacked an unambiguous representation of knowledge? How is it that a postgraduate in Indian History can be so ignorant of India's linguistic heritage to be able to make such patently false claims?!! Or is there a vested interest in portraying a particular picture of India to gullible Indians themselves?
I'm sorry, but what I see in "gobble's" post is nothing but a whole lot of whining about grave injustices in the past.
Now in order to treat disease, the doctor needs to understand the medical history of the patient. A closer examination of any history will expose patterns and trends that help define the problem statement. In fact it can also help identify a problem where one believes that none exists. Or it can alter the problem statement made in the current context taking into account what we know historically.
I mentioned the stone by stone destruction of Vijayanagara - you called it whining about the past. Perhaps in my earlier original post as well you may be able to pick out a few statements that appear to be accusatory.
Now consider the situation that in many schools across India, Sanskrit is being edged out to be replaced by Urdu, or the original problem we started with - of English being the primary medium of education in India - almost by compulsion, if you want to succeed. Are you now able to rephrase the problem as one of continuation of the
Cultural Imperialism and examine the depth and scope of the problem in better light? Can you relate the stone-by-stone destruction of Vijayangara with the imposition of Urdu in many schools in India? One might argue that the Urdu community in India has been here long enough to warrant their inclusion. But at the expense of Sanskrit
without which the original Indian Civilization loses everything it has?!! The word
Impose is very crucial here, because it is not a matter choice - a student is not free to choose in many a school, either of Sanskrit or Urdu as a second language. He is compelled to learn it regardless of if he wants it or not.
Now why is it being imposed and why is there no freedom of choice? Because the vested interests want to impose it of course!! Why do they want to impose it and not provide choice? Because they "hate" the other. Why do they "hate" the other? Because they have been taught to "hate" the other. Who has taught them to "hate" the other?
Todays history books and Media of course!! See - when the more than 1001 instances throughout our history where the primary culture of this land has provided land grants and facilities for the secondary cultures to establish their place of worship and practice their foreign faith - when all these instances are suppressed and buried, the people of secondary cultures forget any gratitude they might have for the primary mother culture that gave them space in the first place (in their own good faith). Instead if all that you hear repeatedly is that the primary culture is a threat to all it secondary sub-cultures, an intellectual hostility is created.
Instead of praising and remembering the accommodating pluralism of Mother India, all you hear is how ugly it really is, repeated again and again. Over time this results in an attitude where one wants to dominate and impose rather than share the same space. That same intellectual hostility also translates into an emotional response on the ground with civil unrest,
one that makes our society an unsafe one for all our children and for the growth and welfare of our Nation!!
Can you see how this
epistemic fascism in all the English literature and books leads to a socially disruptive situation on the ground? Or how some amount of "Glory Singing" where the deeds of the past are good can be useful towards spreading social harmony and building a better future? You may well believe you are reading a progressive modern book and enlightening yourself, but in reality the views in the book are meant to reinforce certain negative stereotypes and split the loyalties of the nation that reads it, into multiple hostile camps.
PS: The reason why graduates are crap is simply because the teachers don't know shit themselves, are underpaid, schools suck balls and so do the textbooks. It has nothing to do with English (as you mentioned), more to do with uselessness.
I truly believe - The reason teaching is uninspiring in modern India today is because a crucial motivation has been robbed from the majority of them - an inability to relate to a form of knowledge that is alien to them, to which they have no cultural roots in the sub-conscious and unconscious. Robbed as they are of their cultural moorings in learning - they have been compelled to mug up and spit out a body of knowledge foreign in origin and approach, hence unable to inspire and motivate their students. The trend continues down the generations. Hence you and me suffered and our children will.
Indeed and I believe, the reason for lack of national spirit in modern India is rooted in this alienation. Once this connection is made,the motivation will come back, the civic sense will slowly emerge, the apathy will fade ... slowly over generations. Please understand the argument and perspective of Balasubramanium about indigenous folk knowledge -
the depth of enculturation that a Sanskritic culture has endowed over 6000 years cannot be wished away overnight!! It will only sap the nation for centuries (while poor Indian civilization gets the blame), and while its vast population struggles to cope with an alien mode of thinking, forever looking to an imperfect west (
with all its warts and sores hidden out of view ) as its role-model.
Japan would have been a impoverished and poor country if the US had not thrown billions of dollars in aid and given them special status for experting their good to the US. Of course, the Japanese were smart and used their special status smartly.
Very good point Venkat.
What Gobble is trying to say is that if we understand our past well and correctly, we will be able to have pride in ourselves, and at least improve the situation for our children.
Actually I neglected to mention one crucial reason why we need to understand our history better. Because we need to know exactly
what to pick up from the past and build upon it, and what weaknesses to leave behind. A perusal of the linked document for example will teach us that we need not abandon our traditional indigenous modes of thinking and pursuit of knowledge, and our hope and strength may actually lie in reviving it in all village communities and building a bridge to modern science wherever feasible.
You blaming English is just stupidly mindless and it appears you just have a grudge against it. The most powerful country in the world uses English only and I don't see them having any problems with it.
My dear Everybody -
But I only speak English!!
My knowledge of my mother tongue is Sh!t maybe 10%, and I can speak good but limited Hindi for some time ... sooner than later I run out words...
I too was an English Speaking Idiot (Read "Confessions of an English Speaking Boy" - its raunchy
). However early on in my twenties, I grew immensely suspicious and alarmed of everything I was reading.
"Daal mein kuch kaala legaa ..." Everywhere I turned, every bookshop, news item etc, I saw inferior western mentality of triumphant
proof brandishing, and un-holistic viewpoints being bandied by so called learned experts in the field!! And almost always in a moralistic sermonizing tone
!! The refined intellectual discernment was
always reserved to cover up for the perceived weakness of western society. But I could not challenge them in my own mind because I never found out books that gave an alternative POV to structure my thoughts and build my intellectual foundations. Because of, as I as I mentioned earlier - the existence of
syndicated scholarship.(Mind you from an early age, I was capable of reading medical texts without breaking into a sweat, or engineering books, my only limitation being lack of rigor in mathematics and absent mindedness
) The result was I quit reading for a whole decade and reminded myself every day to avoid the trash until my vision of what it was became more clear.
Why do I call myself an ex-Idiot? Because I did not have the intellectual capacity to create myself the necessary mental constructs to classify the (what I know now as ) propaganda I was reading and give it structure, I could only swallow the knowledge from a book - exactly what our educational system is making us into - well qualified
Duds, capable of taking orders and doing somewhat complex intellectual work that robots cannot do or above the level of menial labor (Another tool of cultural Imperialism BTW).
Today after many years of struggle I have enough evidence (from the works of others) to argue that the western academia you all so much admire for its "
unconditional spirit of inquiry into the Truth" is actually one where a form of intellectual "
Incestuous Inbreeding" is rampant - where a closed circle of academics review and qualify each others works, gain a false pseudo-respectability in the process, acquire that important chair and funding grant and pass off as world renounced experts in the field. An academia where critical reviews of their works that point out the flaws and shoddy scholarship are never cataloged for the review of future generations of scholars, a world in which people who try and reason are attacked vociferously and have their careers sidelined.
This is particularly true in the study of History, Anthropology and "other" Religions. Not your typical view of the respectable western academic institution is it?
And not very far from the description of that decrypt and run down institution in India where nepotism is rampant...
!!
The core ideas from the substandard works of these western scholars then
filters down into the paperbacks you buy and read from a CrossWord book store, or the documentary in History Channel or your favorite news channel. It is for this reason I do not watch TV since a decade and I almost never will in India!! However I do speed-read and survey the media almost every day, quickly ticking-off the falsehoods on the fly. Mind you till date I have not read a single book on propaganda theory even today!!
Anyways my intent was not to insult anybody just to point out a possibility so you can take a second look at your perceptions.
Cheers
