Bookshelf recommendation please

[raghupb]

I usually play my speakers (Q350, S5s and A26s) in pure direct mode. Not the Wharfies though. They really benefit from the bass knob turned to the max without experiencing hardening of any frequencies or the mid range and treble being overpowered. This is one coloured presentation that really works for most types of music as far as the Wharfies are concerned (always the caveat - to my ears).

OK. It has been a while since I played music with AVR using preamp duty.
Was not impressed with what it does to the sound. Maybe I don't know how to work with AVRs for music.

The Marantz PM7001 is not with me anymore (gave it to dad)
Even with this I would always have the tone controls engaged (sometimes tweaked up/down)
Did not like the sound from "Source Direct" option

With Parasound Pre, tone controls are always in play. Tone flat only brings them to 0dB.
Since this chain has the MA cubes (inherently "bright"), treble is -2 to -4 dB, bass is +1 or +2 dB
Sub level has its own control and I use this to tame bass heavy tracks (albeit rarely)
When using Lyrita Pre, there is no tone control.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[DB1989]

Talking about Crown here, can this be added to the Zone 2 as power amp for Stereo Listening on Denon 2600?

Yes, most definitely. The SR6013 has preamp outs for Zone 2 as well.

OK. It has been a while since I played music with AVR using preamp duty.
Was not impressed with what it does to the sound. Maybe I don't know how to work with AVRs for music.

The Marantz PM7001 is not with me anymore (gave it to dad)
Even with this I would always have the tone controls engaged (sometimes tweaked up/down)
Did not like the sound from "Source Direct" option

With Parasound Pre, tone controls are always in play. Tone flat only brings them to 0dB.
Since this chain has the MA cubes (inherently "bright"), treble is -2 to -4 dB, bass is +1 or +2 dB
Sub level has its own control and I use this to tame bass heavy tracks (albeit rarely)
When using Lyrita Pre, there is no tone control.

Cheers,
Raghu

Feeding the PM6006 directly (in my case through a Chord Mojo) does not fetch any qualitative gains as opposed to the Mojo feeding the AVR which in turn feeds the PM6006 (Perhaps it would matter when i pair it to a better integrated or power amp?). The gains are only quantitative i.e. higher sensitivity so the gain for the main volume knob requires to be set much lower to match the output of my surrounds. In turn, i use the recorder out on the PM6006 to feed the Crown. Gives it some of that marantz warmth that negates the Class D glasiness quite a bit. However, while using the recorder out of the pm6006, the signal cannot be modulated by its preamp section. I guess a Schiit Loki should solve this?

OK. It has been a while since I played music with AVR using preamp duty.
Was not impressed with what it does to the sound. Maybe I don't know how to work with AVRs for music.

The Marantz PM7001 is not with me anymore (gave it to dad)
Even with this I would always have the tone controls engaged (sometimes tweaked up/down)
Did not like the sound from "Source Direct" option

With Parasound Pre, tone controls are always in play. Tone flat only brings them to 0dB.
Since this chain has the MA cubes (inherently "bright"), treble is -2 to -4 dB, bass is +1 or +2 dB
Sub level has its own control and I use this to tame bass heavy tracks (albeit rarely)
When using Lyrita Pre, there is no tone control.

Cheers,
Raghu

Again, i do like music through the AVR for dolby surround upscaling of stereo tracks (whilst always engaging the centre spread - its a shame denon discontinued it on its receivers). I find that it produces a rather convincing and enjoyable effect in certain tracks and genres of music.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

ELAC Debut Reference

 

[raghupb]

Feeding the PM6006 directly (in my case through a Chord Mojo) does not fetch any qualitative gains as opposed to the Mojo feeding the AVR which in turn feeds the PM6006 (Perhaps it would matter when i pair it to a better integrated or power amp?). The gains are only quantitative i.e. higher sensitivity so the gain for the main volume knob requires to be set much lower to match the output of my surrounds. In turn, i use the recorder out on the PM6006 to feed the Crown. Gives it some of that marantz warmth that negates the Class D glasiness quite a bit. However, while using the recorder out of the pm6006, the signal cannot be modulated by its preamp section. I guess a Schiit Loki should solve this?

This chain is more complicated than I imagined. Try to make it simpler.
If you have AVR and Stereo playing over the same set of speakers, get a stereo preamp with HT bypass.
The power amp can still remain common.
Something like this.
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[DB1989]

This chain is more complicated than I imagined. Try to make it simpler.
If you have AVR and Stereo playing over the same set of speakers, get a stereo preamp with HT bypass.
The power amp can still remain common.
Something like this.
Cheers,
Raghu

Thats a great solution. Never thought if it. Thanks, will seriously consider it!

On the diagram, i'm floored!

 

[superczar]

The power amp in my case is the Parasound A21, and it does not have a preamp. It does have a separate Gain knob for each of the L&R power channels though. And Parasound owner’s manual recommends to keep those knobs at max unless pairing with a high gain preamp.

As far as I remember, Marantz AVRs pre-out at 1.2V rms
Most Amps are designed for a 1V rms input - can't say for sure about the parasound but the specs sheet should have it.

If set at max gain, you can expect a higher gain on the amp (with the reasonable presumption that the AVR amp section is fully matched with its own pre-amp section)
So the integrated amp can be expected to sound louder and by extension subjectively nicer for the same volume level setting on the AVR.

I am not saying that an Integrated won't help with a more nuanced presentation - but a speaker directly driven by the AVR vs driven by an integrated is not an apples to apples comparison if the gain levels on the two scenarios are unequal

A theoretical amp in the chain designed for a 2.2V rms input would sound a lot more subdued than a direct AVR connection - unless the listener does a proper level matching for the comparison

I guess the only point i am trying to make is that stereo playback from a decent AVR like yours will see improvements with a good Amp like yours.. But the differences would be far more subtle than stark at normal playback volume levels

 

[Nagaraj S]

But the differences would be far more subtle than stark at normal playback volume levels

The SR6013 as a preamp is not that bad, it is still very listenable. But similar to what you have mentioned, at normal/low volumes, the bass doesn’t carry much weight, which is my preference. At high volumes, the kick drums become clearly perceivable. I am not sure whether a dedicated pre will solve that. I am getting one tomorrow; keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[DB1989]

Marantz 7010. Now that it under repair, I have connected my old Topping TP 60 to it and this also brings out good bass from the S2's. My room size is 26 by 10 with a left side open dining and kitchen.

Caveat: Am not a bass head when it comes to music. When my sub is on, it is just loud enough to bring a little more depth to the sound.

BTW, Kef LS 50 is what Mr. Tharbamar calls his long term reference speakers. Check out his channel. He has a lot of good speaker demos in his channel.

So Tharbamar posted a comparison video between the Quad S2 and the B&W 706 S2s which contains sound clips. My Quad S5s simply can't reproduce the low frequency extension achieved by the Quad S2s in that video without the help of a subwoofer.

However, the charting of the frequency response does evince a slump between 50hz and 80hz.

The review is referenced below:

 

[ssf]

My Quad S5s simply can't reproduce the low frequency extension achieved by the Quad S2s in that video without the help of a subwoofer.

/OT
I had listened to the Kef Q700's quite a while back and I don't remember it being a slouch in the lower frequencies. It had two ABR's in the front.

So, I still don't think that there is a low end problem is with the Quad S5's. Could be placement or room.

A review, if you have not already seen it.

Quad S-5 review - analogue seduction

OT/

 

[DB1989]

/OT
I had listened to the Kef Q700's quite a while back and I don't remember it being a slouch in the lower frequencies. It had two ABR's in the front.

So, I still don't think that there is a low end problem is with the Quad S5's. Could be placement or room.

A review, if you have not already seen it.

Quad S-5 review - analogue seduction

OT/

Ha Ha! this is the very review i read which sort of nudged me to make up my mind to get these. Plus, i got a killer deal shortly after having read this review! and then some. Coinicidentally, i was doing a speaker A & B (&C) comparison yesterday, just before both Tharbamar and Zero fidelity posted their videos. Connecting the Quad S5s after the Evos and the Kefs was a revelation! I never cease to amaze at how good these are, especially after a quick switch from the other speakers. The Quads are a clear step up in pure sound quality terms with exceptional resolution, imaging and that wonderful sense of space and air between instruments. And the voice reproduction is to die for. I'm wondering how these have fallen out of vogue, 5 years hence, the evo still can't match up.

Zerofidelitys video linked for reference:

 

[NadirT]

ELAC Debut Reference

They seem to be quite beautiful and promising speakers. But no one is selling them online. How much do they cost?

 

[shyamv]

I am not sure if the OP is still looking for bookshelf speakers. I have a pair of Monitor Audio Bronze 2 (2018 Black Oak ) for sale if anyone is interested.

 

[DB1989]

They seem to be quite beautiful and promising speakers. But no one is selling them online. How much do they cost?

Here you go:

ELAC Debut Reference Two-Way Bookshelf Speaker (Pair, Black Baffle, Walnut Cabinet)

All product and company names are trademarks™ or registered® trademarks of their respective holders. Use of them does not imply any affiliation with or endorsement by them.

www.tanotis.com

 

[NadirT]

Here you go:

ELAC Debut Reference Two-Way Bookshelf Speaker (Pair, Black Baffle, Walnut Cabinet)

All product and company names are trademarks™ or registered® trademarks of their respective holders. Use of them does not imply any affiliation with or endorsement by them.

www.tanotis.com

Thank you. Although the price is double. Checked with prices of other speakers also. All of them are almost double. Elac 2.0 B5.2 is for 50k/pair on that site.

 

[NadirT]

Can we get Q acoustics 3030i in India?

Q Acoustics 3030i Bookshelf Speaker (Pair)

The Q Acoustics 3030i Bookshelf Speaker will deliver big, bassy, hard-hitting yet beautifully poised sound from a compact, discreet and good-looking cabinet

hifimart.com

 

[DB1989]

Thank you. Although the price is double. Checked with prices of other speakers also. All of them are almost double. Elac 2.0 B5.2 is for 50k/pair on that site.

time to look for other speakers!

 

[Sandip Das]

Can we get Q acoustics 3030i in India?

Compare to previous 3020i (bookshelf) the new 3030i have much better in all uspect. biger bass driver, bigger and improved cabinet. bass performance, mid range clearity and cabinet resonance (the new cabinet design from their concept model). maybe some minor improvment on crossover section. must buy on this price range and last but not its easy to drive.

 

[DB1989]

But 3020i is available for a discounted price of 20k from various dealers (saw in olx) . But 3030i is 36k. So the difference should be there. Unfortunately, I was a bit late to see FM Nadir's quote on the availability of 3030i. I already paid for a 3020i, 20k. Couldn't resist seeing the number of great reviews on the 3020i flooding the internet

You won't be disappointed. They're possibly the best sounding speakers around that range. Just don't go expecting 50K sound at that price.

 

[NadirT]

But 3020i is available for a discounted price of 20k from various dealers (saw in olx) . But 3030i is 36k. So the difference should be there. Unfortunately, I was a bit late to see FM Nadir's quote on the availability of 3030i. I already paid for a 3020i, 20k. Couldn't resist seeing the number of great reviews on the 3020i flooding the internet

The best speaker is the one that you own
20k was a steal deal. Congratulations.

 

[DB1989]

/OT
I had listened to the Kef Q700's quite a while back and I don't remember it being a slouch in the lower frequencies. It had two ABR's in the front.

So, I still don't think that there is a low end problem is with the Quad S5's. Could be placement or room.

A review, if you have not already seen it.

Quad S-5 review - analogue seduction

OT/

So i ended up taking the plunge with the Quad SC-2 Centre Channel. They're larger than the Quad SC centres (5 inch driver as opposed to the 4" in the SC) and more importantly, they will match my S5s so that the centre channel will hopefully achieve perfect synergy with the fronts.

Hopefully, they'll also dig deeper than my Concept Centres whose low frequency extension is rated at 75hz whereas that of the SC-2 at +/- 3db is 55hz and -6db is 50hz.

Perhaps this will also help me solve the mystery of low bass output on my S5s? These are rated at the same sensitivity but have a nominal impedance of 8ohms with a minimum of 5.6 ohms and is ported whereas the S5s have a nominal impedance of 6 ohms and minimum of 3.2 and have ABRs so as @raghupb suggested, it may be down to its difficult to drive nature.

Ordered them earlier today on Hifimart which is currently one of only two sites on the entire world wide web to offer them for sale. In fact, neither the Quad website, nor any others contain any information on these! Crazy stuff!

They're currently on sale at a great price.