Bookshelf recommendation please

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

Hahaha.. You're explaining working of inner ear to a medical professional, since I'm not into ENT speciality, I don't mind refreshing my knowledge.
Thanks for ascertaining that Mics cannot faithfully stimulate the Ear, then approximation, averages etc are to fill the void, but the basic premise becomes less reliable.


I was expecting that you'd end up with Floyd, because that book is like, Last resort. That's already on my list of books to read, but since it's not going to change how I perceive audio ( because listening is a acquired /learned skill over period of years), I'm not in a hurry. Also there's lots of counter to Floyd's conclusions.
You should read this concise discussion pertaining to the topic of our discussion based on Floyd's observations.
Audioholics Ears vs Mic
Brief conclusion from the article...

Elephant in the Room - which is better?
Elephant in the RoomHaving talked about measurement microphones, let’s address the elephant I’ve let into the room. The article set out to discuss the accuracy of our hearing vs that of a microphone to decide once and for all which is more accurate. I made the point that we can’t really discuss accuracy without creating a point of reference, and my point of reference is the faithful reproduction of the real event (even if that “real” event is an artificial creation). It becomes clear then that our hearing is really all that matters. We could walk away now without ever addressing the lowly measurement microphone, but that provides a problem. How could I justify my own frequent use of a microphone for optimizing a sound reproduction system, along with that of most sound engineers, acoustical scientists, and technicians? Clearly, a microphone must provide some kind of accuracy for which our ears cannot?
Answering this question really begs another question, why do we measure at all? Audioholics has previously written a great article on exactly this subject - Why we measure audio. First and foremost, scientists and engineers use measurements as a means to objectively characterize a speaker. When it comes to engineering a speaker, this is a valuable tool. However, without a point of reference, even that would be of little use.


I think that's not what a really scientifically oriented person would write ( Real knowledge should make a person humble & open, not arrogant and closed), this kind of intellectual Arrogance will get you nowhere. I respect your opinion, and agree that we disagree.
BTW, Its not that I don't look into measurements, in fact I do more often , but I never base my buying decision solely on measurements. It's just that, We trust our ears more. I think if something sounds good, probably we should search for scientific evidence on why it is so by measurements, not the other way around.


Well put, is it so much hard to fathom by apparently more inquisitive minds?

by the way the review article from which this graph is represented here, has wholeheartedly recommended b&w 606 speakers.


What kind of logic is that? I should suppress & hurt my feelings and listen to a subjectively flat, lifeless sound, just to please the artists?? Again you're bringing subjective preference of recording artists to support your bias towards objective data in decision making? Unbelievable!

Sorry I didn’t know you were a doctor. Sorry about sharing that dumb ear video to you then. For the rest, we won’t reach on the same page as we still stand by our own biases. I think that’s fine. But I still define people as audiophools who totally ignore the science behind audio reproduction but only rely their ears which is a huge variable in judging. We hear differently depending on our physical and mental health. The same speaker sounds different in different rooms again. I don’t think it’s arrogant unless I had aimed it specifically on someone, which I hadn’t.

Actually I Rush to reply with my arguments when someone contradicts me with my ideology and sometimes instead of reading their point and digest it, I loose my cool and I try to flood my half cooked knowledge to counter it. That’s my problem. Thanks for your life advice on arrogance, humbleness and openness. I too know I have to be all this, but I keep forgetting it while replying. Thanks for reminding.

 

[A H Shuvo]

I think i got lucky then . Both the marantz pm6006 and kef q350s were blind purchases and they are a match made in heaven! Every person who's come across this combo, audiophile or not (mostly not ), has really loved the sound!

I am using Marantz pm6006 , i am confused in this 2 speakers Dynaudio emit m20 vs kef q300?

 

[DB1989]

I am using Marantz pm6006 , i am confused in this 2 speakers Dynaudio emit m20 vs kef q300?

I believe the KEF Q300 has been discontinued. The KEF Q350 is incredible bang for buck (especially if you can get it for less than 50k) and plays really well with all kinds of music that i’ve thrown at it. Its the one size fits all kind of speaker. I haven’t heard the Emit M20 so i cannot comment on which has the better sound but then again, preferences in sonic presentation boil down to individual prejudices (what hi fi stated that the KEF Q350s are better than the Emit M20s). For 20k or more lesser than the M20s (which i think are terribly overpriced in India unless you can get it for less than 60k), i would say that the Q350s make a pretty compelling buy. And yes, the KEF Q350s pair extremely well with the Marantz.

 

[raghupb]

I am using Marantz pm6006 , i am confused in this 2 speakers Dynaudio emit m20 vs kef q300?

If the choice is between Dynaudio Emit M20 and KEF Q300/350, go for KEF.
Simply because the Dynes are 4 ohm speakers and PM6006 will struggle.
Marantz and KEF pair well; I used to drive KEF R300 using PM7001 (older model compared to PM6006).
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[DB1989]

If the choice is between Dynaudio Emit M20 and KEF Q300/350, go for KEF.
Simply because the Dynes are 4 ohm speakers and PM6006 will struggle.
Marantz and KEF pair well; I used to drive KEF R300 using PM7001 (older model compared to PM6006).
Cheers,
Raghu

Hi Raghu, Could that also be the reason why the PM6006/ Sr6013 struggles to produce bass with my Quad S5s which are 6ohm speakers? I haven’t tried them with any other amps (except a crown 1502 but with no control over the preamp section to tune bass). Some dealers have advised me to get a high current amp which they have assured will beget better lower end excursion. Is the advise credible?

 

[raghupb]

Hi Raghu, Could that also be the reason why the PM6006/ Sr6013 struggles to produce bass with my Quad S5s which are 6ohm speakers? I haven’t tried them with any other amps (except a crown 1502 but with no control over the preamp section to tune bass). Some dealers have advised me to get a high current amp which they have assured will beget better lower end excursion. Is the advise credible?

If your feel the speakers + amp are not wowing you in the LF department, the most common advice is high current amp.
I am not familiar with Quad S5, but 6 Ohm nominal and 3.2 Ohm min is not easy for many amps
But it does have a higher SPL/sensitivity 90dB, so it is not all that bad.
One spec you can correlate with is 40-200W recommended power.
I would read it as "give me some juice and magic will happen".
PM6006 is rated at 45/60W max, so by the time the Quad comes alive, the amp may be running out of steam.
The crown is definitely capable of holding it ground bass wise, but you are the best judge of how it sounds.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[DB1989]

Thanks. My dealer is quite accommodating but carrying these behemoths to try it with different amps is not an option. I’ll see if i can borrow one to confirm this.

 

[raghupb]

Thanks. My dealer is quite accommodating but carrying these behemoths to try it with different amps is not an option. I’ll see if i can borrow one to confirm this.

Check if there are FMs near by who have different amps. This would be the fastest way.
If you can borrow an IA, even better, it is just one box to swap out.
But the pandemic situation may have to peter down to socialize.
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[superczar]

Hi Raghu, Could that also be the reason why the PM6006/ Sr6013 struggles to produce bass with my Quad S5s which are 6ohm speakers? I haven’t tried them with any other amps (except a crown 1502 but with no control over the preamp section to tune bass). Some dealers have advised me to get a high current amp which they have assured will beget better lower end excursion. Is the advise credible?

It’s more likely to be a LF gain issue .
Before spending on a new amp, just try a simple test:

Feed the 6006 or 6013 with any simple device with a boost applied to LF (e.g. bass boost EQ enabled from an iphone)
IIRC, the 6013 has pre-ins as well so would be even better if you can use that.
If the speakers still have an issue with bass excursion or if you hear any clipping then you know it’s an amp power deficit issue ...but not otherwise

 

[ssf]

Deleted.

 

[DB1989]

It’s more likely to be a LF gain issue .
Before spending on a new amp, just try a simple test:

Feed the 6006 or 6013 with any simple device with a boost applied to LF (e.g. bass boost EQ enabled from an iphone)
IIRC, the 6013 has pre-ins as well so would be even better if you can use that.
If the speakers still have an issue with bass excursion or if you hear any clipping then you know it’s an amp power deficit issue ...but not otherwise

I tried increasing bass gain with the pm6006. Though it adds bass, its still nowhere as deep, articulate or loud as the Evo 4.2s and the Q350s produce with the same amp. For that matter, the SR6013 in stereo mode doesnt fare any better either, though it has twice as much power as the PM6006 with 2 channels driven.

 

[raghupb]

I tried increasing bass gain with the pm6006. Though it adds bass, its still nowhere as deep, articulate or loud as the Evo 4.2s and the Q350s produce with the same amp. For that matter, the SR6013 in stereo mode doesnt fare any better either, though it has twice as much power as the PM6006 with 2 channels driven.

What @superczar is suggesting is a tweak at the source itself.
It may produce different results.
Try chord mojo connected to laptop with foobar + equalizer.
Bump the LF by 3dB or something
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[DB1989]

Deleted.

I remember you mentioned that your Quad S2s produce a good quantity of bass. What are you driving them with?

 

[DB1989]

What @superczar is suggesting is a tweak at the source itself.
It may produce different results.
Try chord mojo connected to laptop with foobar + equalizer.
Bump the LF by 3dB or something
Cheers,
Raghu

Interesting thought. Will try it!

 

[superczar]

I tried increasing bass gain with the pm6006. Though it adds bass, its still nowhere as deep, articulate or loud as the Evo 4.2s and the Q350s produce with the same amp. For that matter, the SR6013 in stereo mode doesnt fare any better either, though it has twice as much power as the PM6006 with 2 channels driven.

If a 6013 is not giving you deep bass then something else is off.
While an IA may possibly give you better results on other fronts but i really doubt if it will change the bass response dramatically

If the bass response on your quads is significantly lower than your Q350s thenI am going to go out on a limb here - but have you checked the rear terminals to make sure the lower terminals on both the speakers are connected to the upper terminals properly and securely?

 

[DB1989]

Coincidentally, this review was uploaded an hour back and even this reviewer says that the Quad S2s have good bass extension:

 

[DB1989]

Coincidentally, this review was uploaded an hour back and even this reviewer says that the Quad S2s have good bass extension:

This guy makes some bold claims by considering these better than the KEF LS50s and the B&W 707 S2s.

 

[DB1989]

If a 6013 is not giving you deep bass then something else is off.
While an IA may possibly give you better results on other fronts but i really doubt if it will change the bass response dramatically

If the bass response on your quads is significantly lower than your Q350s thenI am going to go out on a limb here - but have you checked the rear terminals to make sure the lower terminals on both the speakers are connected to the upper terminals properly and securely?

i switch amps quite often so I'm not sure if the terminals are the issue. I have tried both bi-wiring them and otherwise but haven't noticed any difference. Another thing of note is that the PM6006 is better at deep and loud bass than the SR6013 when you use the tone controls. The bass response of the Evo 4.2s become phenomenal and almost floorstanding like when you increase gain on the bass to the max.

 

[ssf]

I remember you mentioned that your Quad S2s produce a good quantity of bass. What are you driving them with?

Marantz 7010. Now that it under repair, I have connected my old Topping TP 60 to it and this also brings out good bass from the S2's. My room size is 26 by 10 with a left side open dining and kitchen.

Caveat: Am not a bass head when it comes to music. When my sub is on, it is just loud enough to bring a little more depth to the sound.

BTW, Kef LS 50 is what Mr. Tharbamar calls his long term reference speakers. Check out his channel. He has a lot of good speaker demos in his channel.

 

[DB1989]

Marantz 7010. Now that it under repair, I have connected my old Topping TP 60 to it and this also brings out good bass from the S2's. My room size is 26 by 10 with a left side open dining and kitchen.

Caveat: Am not a bass head when it comes to music. When my sub is on, it is just loud enough to bring a little more depth to the sound.

BTW, Kef LS 50 is what Mr. Tharbamar calls his long term reference speakers. Check out his channel. He has a lot of good speaker demos in his channel.

I've been subscribed to his channel for some time now. Good reviews though not very articulate in its exposition. I've found his preferences in sonic presentation to be quite similar to mine. I've asked him to do a comparo with the LS50s and the Evos. Lets hope he obliges.