Cadence vs Lyrita vs Rethm

[ajay124]

I think the conclusion is that "heinlein" should use his own ears to decide what he likes best!

Heinlein, since you are close by in Gurgaon, just hop across for a listen. I can set up whatever combination of Lyrita gear you prefer. No obligation, just come to listen.

Regards,
Viren

Way to go Heinlein!
Also the Cadence with Hifiashok if he obliges.
And with Viren you don't need to take your cd's.I found that the sound quality of his cd's was much better than my 'reference' cd's.

 

[square_wave]

Multi driver VS FR

There is no weakness in any of the approaches once you have arrived at your preference. This require a lot of auditions with your kind of music.

Different folks like different presentations. The reason why they like a certain presentation is not because that is the perfect presentation but because all other presentations presents some weakness to them.

My two cents:

FRs if right will give you a pristine midrange (lack of crossover) at a very affordable price point while losing out on various other things. Nothing is perfect in this world.

A multidriver speaker lover will be willing to sacrifice some of this seamless midrange to gain a lot of other aspects of music reproduction which may be of tremendous importance to him/her. Again nothing is perfect in this world.

I personally am a fan of two way speakers which come with well designed crossovers so that I do not lose out on much of the magic on the midrange while gaining a lot of other aspects like great power response, impact and frequency extension which is very important to me.

All this talk about FR lovers being music lovers and others are sound dissect specialists are all complete nonsense. There are examples of both in all camps.

In fact all music lovers who own audiophile gear have done their bit of dissecting the sound. At least to a certain extent to figure out what floats their boat. Some settle down after this and start enjoying their music while others to whom this is a hobby will continue doing so because it their hobby !
I can bet that even Stevie does his bit of dissection whenever he changes a tube in his amp. Correct me Stevie if I am wrong here !

 

[heinlein2302]

I think the conclusion is that "heinlein" should use his own ears to decide what he likes best!

Heinlein, since you are close by in Gurgaon, just hop across for a listen. I can set up whatever combination of Lyrita gear you prefer. No obligation, just come to listen.

Regards,
Viren

@Viren

Thank you and yes, I am planning to come over. I have to travel for the next two weeks but as soon as I am back, I shall take an appointment with you. Incidentally, we had spoken briefly late last week.

@Others

This is another aspect of the purchase that is important to me. Just for everybody's information, I had written late last week to Lyrita as well as Cadence. My comparative experience:

Viren wrote back in about 10 minutes and gave me his phone number. Cadence never got back. So I wrote them again after 2 days. Still no response. To me, this is a big turn-off. If a company can't be bothered to respond to me before the purchase, what chance have I got after the purchase?

Anyway I called Viren immediately and we got chatting and I mentioned about my interest in Cadence. He said if you are going for the Cadence speaker, it would be better to buy their amp also because they have designed it to work best with their speaker. From my experience, I can name 20 guys in 10 industries who would have still pushed their own product even if it is not in the customer's interest.

During our conversation, Viren never once even indirectly implied that his equipment is God's gift to humanity. He just said that you should come over and listen, then you will know if this is what suits your ears.

I also read his post here from the time he launched the Amity and the more powerful amp. I really like the idea of a guy who frequents these forums and designs a system in response to demand from rock music lovers, even if the design philosophy doesn't fit perfectly into his own world-view.

Finally, I did a bit of due diligence online and I can't find a single person who has anything unpleasant to say about him. That's really something. I mean, even Gandhi had his critics!

In short, Viren is the kind of guy that makes me want to deal with him. I am going to try his systems first and unless his sound just doesn't work for me, I have a strong preference to go with him. I shall keep you all posted.

P.S. Not to sound like I am his agent or anything , but I think such people deserve an honorable mention every now and then, just so they know they are appreciated.

 

[Dr.Bass]

@Viren

Thank you and yes, I am planning to come over. I have to travel for the next two weeks but as soon as I am back, I shall take an appointment with you. Incidentally, we had spoken briefly late last week.

@Others

This is another aspect of the purchase that is important to me. Just for everybody's information, I had written late last week to Lyrita as well as Cadence. My comparative experience:

Viren wrote back in about 10 minutes and gave me his phone number. Cadence never got back. So I wrote them again after 2 days. Still no response. To me, this is a big turn-off. If a company can't be bothered to respond to me before the purchase, what chance have I got after the purchase?

Anyway I called Viren immediately and we got chatting and I mentioned about my interest in Cadence. He said if you are going for the Cadence speaker, it would be better to buy their amp also because they have designed it to work best with their speaker. From my experience, I can name 20 guys in 10 industries who would have still pushed their own product even if it is not in the customer's interest.

During our conversation, Viren never once even indirectly implied that his equipment is God's gift to humanity. He just said that you should come over and listen, then you will know if this is what suits your ears.

I also read his post here from the time he launched the Amity and the more powerful amp. I really like the idea of a guy who frequents these forums and designs a system in response to demand from rock music lovers, even if the design philosophy doesn't fit perfectly into his own world-view.

Finally, I did a bit of due diligence online and I can't find a single person who has anything unpleasant to say about him. That's really something. I mean, even Gandhi had his critics!

In short, Viren is the kind of guy that makes me want to deal with him. I am going to try his systems first and unless his sound just doesn't work for me, I have a strong preference to go with him. I shall keep you all posted.

P.S. Not to sound like I am his agent or anything , but I think such people deserve an honorable mention every now and then, just so they know they are appreciated.

Excellent thoughts!!

 

[anm]

yes, he is a wonderful guy. And in this industry, his usp/ niche is that he is not throwing audiophile snobbery BS at you. In fact, I think he is not really a businessman, but a hobbyist.

 

[rikhav]

Let me add to this that Mr. Jacob George of rethm is also a true gentleman. He was very prompt in replying to my mails even when I had clearly mentioned that I dont have the money to afford his products at the moment.

so you have to 2 guys (Virenji and Jacob) with whom you wont have any problem communicating and getting true advice

 

[stevieboy]

I can bet that even Stevie does his bit of dissection whenever he changes a tube in his amp. Correct me Stevie if I am wrong here !

Absolutely square wave But not dissecting it the way I normally hear a system being described. I generally don't prefer dissecting music the way a traditional audiophile does in terms of microdynamics/macrodynamics, soundstage height/width/depth, midbass quality versus just how low it goes etc.

regards

 

[stevieboy]

I also read his post here from the time he launched the Amity and the more powerful amp. I really like the idea of a guy who frequents these forums and designs a system in response to demand from rock music lovers, even if the design philosophy doesn't fit perfectly into his own world-view.

Heinlein,

At the risk of repeating myself do ask Viren to demo the VT52 tubes for you too. Rajiv and I prefer the 45 tubes to the 2A3, it's a different flavour you can listen to, since you're going all the way there. Of course a 45 tube would be lower powered at 1.5 watts but would be good to hear everything he has to offer at one shot. So you'd have 4 different tubes to listen to, the 845s, the russian 6C33Cs, the 2A3 and the VT52 (military version of the 45 tube)

Will await your review. He is indeed a gentleman, non-pushy, I had taken a year to finally make a purchase and still call him up now and then just for a chat. He makes some excellent cables too you could check those out too.

regards
steve

 

[heinlein2302]

Thanks Stevie, I shall keep this in mind and request Viren accordingly.

 

[stevieboy]

In general and this is my sole opinion, people who tend to like single drivers and SET amps are more focused on the musical side of the music. People who like conventional speakers, you'll find them describing speakers in terms of superb treble extension, superb midrange tight bass etc. examples of which you'll find on this very thread. Parts of the music versus the whole package without breaking things down. And this is where the crunch lies - if you figure out what kind of a listener you are, you're more likely to find a system that will satisfy you for a longer time.

regards

Hi Dr Bass,

Now that Heinlein is off to check out speakers I think I can reply to you and make one last attempt at clarifying without derailing his thread. I quote myself above so you can see my words in context. The point of my comments re musicality which seem to be blown out of context was - 'if you figure out what kind of listener you are, you're more likely to find a system that will satisfy you for a longer time'.

You yourself have proved the point I'm trying to make in two of your own posts. In one you say you could not relate to your pal describing the speakers when he said things like it sounded right, very general overall statements. For you describing the cadence's in terms of bass timing mismatch etc conveyed some meaning to you. In another later post you say you found the Cadence's to be musical and were transported. Which is exactly my point, inspite of finding a speaker musical, you choose to describe these speakers in the hi-fi language. For you, this language has meaning.

For me it's the complete opposite. These hi-fi words don't mean a thing cos for me, if there are two speakers with a bass timing issue, the same superb treble I'm sure one speaker would have some indefinable something that would make me say hmmm this speaker sounds more musical overall to me and I'd describe them accordingly. My language of describing speakers is very different from yours. You have a few boxes to put check marks against (various hi-fi terms), I have just one (musical or not). Both perfectly valid ways to approach music but both very very different.

So if Heinlein were somebody for whom superb treble was paramount, he'd not like the single driver sound. Ditto if he were a bass head. But if he was someone who was more into the overall sound versus the individual components there's a chance he might warm up to the single driver sound. Cos this approach to overall listening perfectly matches what a single driver does and does not do. That was the point of my post. And not a statement that single drivers are musical and other speakers are not.

When I said the musical side of music, the other side I was referring to was the hi-fi side where one uses hi-fi terms compared to the musical side where one listens to how a system touches you and you describe it in emotional terms. I hope this clarifies the difference I was trying to portray. From here to only single drivers are musical is a long long imaginative jump I must say

If you want another example of what I'd consider a 'musical speaker' it would be Arj's old JMR's which you've also heard. In hi-fi terms it certainly lacked bass but whatever it did sounded musical to my ears. Part of course I'm sure cos of his Sugden. A Dynaudio on the other hand I'd describe as being neutral, bordering on clinical. Not as foot tapping musical as the JMRs.

regards

 

[GeorgeO]

Stevie

At the risk of sounding a bit facetious, you words remind me somewhat of Siddharth Patankar of NDTV Profit when he raves about cars on the Car and Bike Show!( I just saw this morning's segment)

To each his own..

Cheers

George

 

[Dr.Bass]

For some it could be gut wrenching bass that just has to be present, for some its a silky extended treble that just has to be there.

Do you think silky extended treble and musicality are mutually exclusive attributes ?

Steve, you did not reply to this question ?
I will elaborate the question little more. Do you think, a system (not just the speakers) which has a silky extended treble cannot present music as whole ?

 

[captrajesh]

Multi driver VS FR
FRs if right will give you a pristine midrange (lack of crossover)!
....
A multidriver speaker lover will be willing to sacrifice some of this seamless midrange to gain a lot of other aspects of music reproduction which may be of tremendous importance to him/her.
...
not lose out on much of the magic on the midrange while gaining a lot of other aspects like great power response, impact and frequency extension which is very important to me.

Well said Vinny. In fact I've been thinking on the ways of making a speaker with full range driver to produce from say 300 to 12000 Hz & a tweeter & woofer to take care of extremes.
Then a Class AB SS to drive the woofers & a SET / Class D amp for the full ranger & tweeter which receive their share of sound spectrum from source through active crossovers. Any comments?

 

[arj]

Capt all the very best it may be a really satisfying venture for you !!.. for 10k and above you will need a supertweeter as most other tweeters have some kind of a rolllof after 12 Khz (but since most of us after 30 anyway rarely hear much above that you may be ok with that !).
if you are really doing this you may want also to consider the option of a separately powered subwoofer for Bass duties .

 

[captrajesh]

Thanks for the line words Arjun that should be my ultimate project b4 I call quits. At present I'm looking for active crossovers & a DIY sub driven by Shiva's amp to augment low frequencies. Any pointers reg active crossovers?

 

[doors666]

Well said Vinny. In fact I've been thinking on the ways of making a speaker with full range driver to produce from say 300 to 12000 Hz & a tweeter & woofer to take care of extremes.
Then a Class AB SS to drive the woofers & a SET / Class D amp for the full ranger & tweeter which receive their share of sound spectrum from source through active crossovers. Any comments?

me too in the same boat at the moment. check out the mark audio alpair 7, 4" FR that goes upto 35khz. no need for a tweeter. according to mark, its a sacrilege to add a tweeter to this driver.

 

[stevieboy]

Steve, you did not reply to this question ?
I will elaborate the question little more. Do you think, a system (not just the speakers) which has a silky extended treble cannot present music as whole ?

Hi Dr Bass,

Sure it can I did answer that when I mentioned the JMRs. Inspite of a deficiency in bass vis a vis other bookshelves I've heard what I took away was an overall warm lovely presentation. So in your example, if a speaker did have silky extended treble but sounded superbly musical what I'd take away would be the overall feeling each song engendered in me when played through that speaker, not the silky treble per se. To give you another example, I've heard the same type of amp, the 845s, by Cadence with their speakers and the 845 amp that Siva makes with his earlier version of the floorstanders in his flat at Jayanagar. For me overall, Siva's system was more enjoyable than the Cadence systems. In fact I've often recommended to people to go to Siva's place to hear his system. However, ask me to describe it in hi-fi terms and I wouldn't be able to break things down at all, all I remember is overall it made me want to listen more than the Cadence setup.

I hope this clears up what you've been taking as my single driver superiority bias?

regards

 

[stevieboy]

Well said Vinny. In fact I've been thinking on the ways of making a speaker with full range driver to produce from say 300 to 12000 Hz & a tweeter & woofer to take care of extremes.
Then a Class AB SS to drive the woofers & a SET / Class D amp for the full ranger & tweeter which receive their share of sound spectrum from source through active crossovers. Any comments?

Hi Captrajesh,

Do look at Cain & Cain speakers. They are single drivers and they make a bass module and have one model of single driver speakers that use a supertweeter. You might get some useful specs from their website.

regards

 

[stevieboy]

Stevie

At the risk of sounding a bit facetious, you words remind me somewhat of Siddharth Patankar of NDTV Profit when he raves about cars on the Car and Bike Show!( I just saw this morning's segment)

To each his own..

Cheers

George

Apologies George, I shall now shut up and put on an LP and get back to the music!

 

[arj]

Hi Dr Bass,

Sure it can I did answer that when I mentioned the JMRs. Inspite of a deficiency in bass vis a vis other bookshelves I've heard what I took away was an overall warm lovely presentation. So in your example, if a speaker did have silky extended treble but sounded superbly musical what I'd take away would be the overall feeling each song engendered in me when played through that speaker, not the silky treble per se. To give you another example, I've heard the same type of amp, the 845s, by Cadence with their speakers and the 845 amp that Siva makes with his earlier version of the floorstanders in his flat at Jayanagar. For me overall, Siva's system was more enjoyable than the Cadence systems. In fact I've often recommended to people to go to Siva's place to hear his system. However, ask me to describe it in hi-fi terms and I wouldn't be able to break things down at all, all I remember is overall it made me want to listen more than the Cadence setup.

I hope this clears up what you've been taking as my single driver superiority bias?

regards

Hey stevie, just my view, but enjoying music and explaining it are really 2 different things and quite mutually exclusive. I guess one could always enjoy music and explaining it in anyway techie/audiophile or musical way need not necessarily take away any enjoyment from music . (maybe thats not what you meant)

eg amost all people who DIY Have to understand what they are doing in technical terms in order to make it sound the way it has to.. in the making a Hifi that is a bit of science, emotion (and some magic !)