CAT 7 - Ethernet Cable - Revelation Audio Labs - USA -

[bhagwan]

Dear Bhagwan, please post your comments...we are all waiting eagerly and too many posts are being added to this thread unnecessarily.....

Do give us an unbiased opinion if the cable makes a difference or not and if yes, how much?

@ Panditji - Hello !

I am as keen to do this as you are - trust me;

However, I am doing this as slowly & spread over time - so no opinion is 'polarised' in any manner.

I do the testing in 'pairs'
That is needed.

At all points in time - 2 audiophiles are in the room - music is chosen - 6 tracks & played with all the cables being 'rotated'

The time consumption is because I need to get those people in to the house & need their 3 hours to do it. This coordination is what is taking the time.

All the Cables are with me. I am free, but the other audio friends of mine are not free. Their ears [listening] I trust - so I have to wait for them to visit.

Kindly bear with me - a few more days - the results will be in the open. Between 5 cables now. Thanks,

+10

Calling a Spade a Spade is necessary sometimes.

@ InderbirSingh - Spot on Sir;
That is exactly what I am trying to do - get the facts [as per listening test] out in the open in as fair & unpolarised manner as possible - besides, a spade should 'always' be called a spade - not sometimes - hyeah:

 

[arj]

Dear Bhagwan, please post your comments...we are all waiting eagerly and too many posts are being added to this thread unnecessarily.....

Do give us an unbiased opinion if the cable makes a difference or not and if yes, how much?

panditji,
believe me, the result which bhagwan will arrive at, irrespective of what it is will remain disputed. if not in this forum, somewhere else.

it is like the kashmir problem.

The only person who will be satisfied with this will be bhagwan as he is the only one truly looking for and working for an answer..everybody else has already made their decision on what they will believehyeah: most of us anyway being armchair internet warriors (not targeted at anyone or any group in particular..generalised to most audio forums in the world)

So in the end, only bhagwan deserves the satisfaction of the result..as he is the only one trying to arrive at it objectively

My "philosophical" suggestion to bhagwan, for his own sake, is NOT to publish the results in this thread...all those who are really keen can PM him and find it out for themselves :lol:.

 

[sbg]

... Anyway, I like this forum and the people I meet through it: I don't want to get banned
...

.

Respected Sir,
With the permission of the Mods - I will go with this for a while;
All ATM....

I apologize to the Mods - once again for going OT [of sorts] !

let me quote an example of Mr.Robert H. Goddard, maybe, we all are on the same state of affairs and we too may have to use something like "...Further investigation and experimentation have confirmed the findings of Isaac Newton in the 17th Century and it is now definitely established that a rocket can function in a vacuum as well as in an atmosphere. The Times regrets the error."

To me, the end of an understanding is to know and believe.I have nothing against any persons specifics or beliefs, I'm not a skeptic. We do all pour in Ideas and share a great deal of info/knowledge.We await the outcome of expriements.

 

[bhagwan]

The only person who will be satisfied with this will be bhagwan as he is the only one truly looking for and working for an answer..everybody else has already made their decision on what they will believehyeah: most of us anyway being armchair internet warriors (not targeted at anyone or any group in particular..generalised to most audio forums in the world)

So in the end, only bhagwan deserves the satisfaction of the result..as he is the only one trying to arrive at it objectively

My "philosophical" suggestion to bhagwan, for his own sake, is NOT to publish the results in this thread...all those who are really keen can PM him and find it out for themselves :lol:.

@ ARJ,

Brilliant - You have nailed it;

But, you know the real reason why I am doing this ?
It is Satyam - my Computer Guru. He installed all the machines @ Home & 'supports' them - each time I get 'stuck'

He is just like T E G [100 % Technical & a Non - Believer]

I personally do not understand computers to save my life - I just did what I did [2 Computers & V5.1] cause I heard it in Munich & the damn thing played really well - 2nd best only to 'The Beast' from Request [35/- K Euro]

So, once the 2 machines were installed & operational - I wanted to try this Cable thing - asked Satyam & he said exactly the same thing as T.E.G.

Now the Cables are with me - I am waiting for him to visit too - looks rather difficult - so he too can be 1 of my 5 test members to do the 'auditions' we all
will know what happens - the result i.e.

I will publish my results & who ever wants to dispute is - is more than welcome to do so;
I have nothing to defend & nothing to sell, so what ever people say - is 100 % OK with me - just keep it polite & gentle [avoid personal remarks] & we all can have a nice laugh / grin [what ever you want to call it] @ 'bhagwan's time & effort' [I am absolutely OK with it] !!

BTW - forget PM - People have been calling me - asking for the result - I offered them to visit & see [hear] for them selves.;;;

But ARJ, still - thanks for your support - I appreciate it - even though I know the 'techic' in you knows that this is all 'snake skin oil' [just to use the phrase that has been doing the rounds] !! Really it means a lot to me..:clapping:

OT - Please do come home for a listen - these 2 computer thing has to be heard - simply brilliant it is;;;

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Please forgivre me, I do not mean to be contrary at any cost but... I am not a non-believer. Quite the opposite, in fact hyeah:

let me quote an example of Mr.Robert H. Goddard, maybe, we all are on the same state of affairs and we too may have to use something like "...Further investigation and experimentation have confirmed the findings of Isaac Newton in the 17th Century and it is now definitely established that a rocket can function in a vacuum as well as in an atmosphere. The Times regrets the error."

To me, the end of an understanding is to know and believe.I have nothing against any persons specifics or beliefs, I'm not a skeptic. We do all pour in Ideas and share a great deal of info/knowledge.We await the outcome of expriements.

We do not live in a vacuum, but to read what many write here one would think we did. It's the cables-grow-on-trees thing again. Like, just because a music listener is using one, this is the first time ever, and what they do, what they discover, is the great experiment that will prove all.

Sorry, but a pin needs to be taken to that bubble.

This must only be the millionth billionth time a guy has connected a couple of computers with an internet cable. Nothing to see here. Move along please...

 

[arj]

even though I know the 'techic' in you knows that this is all 'snake skin oil' [just to use the phrase that has been doing the rounds] !! Really it means a lot to me..:clapping:

Ha ha..I am surprised you figured it out !! I wish I was in mumbai..would have loved to hear it with my own 2 skeptical ears..which have been humbled a Lot in the past few years.

 

[IndianEars]

I think that both sides have ADEQUATELY vented their opinions and stand in the mattter.

I really dont see why adult minds want to IMPOSE their views and keep pushing tthat others should look at matters the way They do .... :sad:

Bhagwan has posted about his experiment. Why are the others going overboard to 'Convert' him to their path of thinking ?

It is essential that we respect the other's point of view even though we may not agree....

If you find the opinion so repulsive, just ignore this thread and move on.... there are Tons of other threads where you can share ( biy not impose) your 'wisdom.'

 

[arj]

These are made in USA - Revelation Audio Labs - Florida - CAT 7 Ethernet Cables.

They just arrived.

I will use them - soon.

Will connect & take pics & post soon.

BTW, since we are connecting two computers directly, are these wired as a crossover OR is it a regular Cat5 ? i believe crossovers have two paths switched for direct connection..and if we use regular Cat 5s, we need two of them along with a hub.

 

[ranjeetrain]

It is essential that we respect the other's point of view even though we may not agree....

Everywhere in the world, people tend to come across as rude beings in their online avtaar, even if they are nice people otherwise. What they forget is that with increasing dominance of digital life, how you relate to others online will eventually affect how you relate to them offline.

RESPECT is one thing Indian-ism is often associated with. How fast are we losing it!

Respecting others doesn't mean becoming small, or accepting his superriority, accepting his ideas/opinion/decision. It just means there will be no loss of warmth in the interaction even if there is complete disagreement on a subject.

We Indians have come a long way. And we are in a hurry to become something we are not known to be.

 

[ranjeetrain]

BTW, since we are connecting two computers directly, are these wired as a crossover OR is it a regular Cat5 ? i believe crossovers have two paths switched for direct connection..and if we use regular Cat 5s, we need two of them along with a hub.

Arj, that used to be the case in PAST.

These days most RJ45 interfaces are auto-sensing. Means, they would auto detect the cable type. So it hardly matter these days.

Though I could be wrong about the implementation in this specific case.

 

[stevieboy]

Bhagwan you have truly set the CAT among the pigeons here

Having followed your many system changes I know, or at least I think I know your mindset, which is listen to as much as possible, wherever possible and retain what you like and move on from the rest. So although I am a completely anti-digital person, being firmly analog, it will be interesting to see what you find. Will your new cables be the CAT's whiskers or will they be a wussy CAT. Either way, an open mind seems harder to find these days, so congratulations on being an intrepid explorer!

Regards

 

[keith_correa]

So we have SCIENCE on one side with all it's measurements and reasoning et.al. and on the other, we have a test being conducted which is non scientific with no measurements but with REAL people substituting for measurements and who will give their opinions on what they hear.

The person who is conducting this says it is OK if it works and it is OK if it doesn't. He is just trying to find out if it does or does not work. Now if there is a +ve sonic difference [psychoacoustic or whatever] experienced, how are we going to react? Are the naysayers [me included] then going to still stick to our stand that it doesn't make a difference - despite NOT experiencing this ourselves? I would think the onus would be on us to then disprove that it made a difference. And how are we going to do that? Are we then going to stick to the same chestnut of "networking" principles and how it SHOULD not make a difference etc etc?

At this point, I THINK whatever Bhagwan is doing SHOULD not work with positive sonic differences BUT I'm quite willing to keep an open mind, wait for the results of the experiment and after the results are published, am willing to accept that people DID or DID NOT hear a difference. Period. And I'm quite willing to let the technicalities fall by the wayside in doing so.

One piece of advice to Bhagwan - after publishing the results, walk away. It's only going to get worse

 

[arj]

So we have SCIENCE on one side with all it's measurements and reasoning et.al.

I guess Science will come in when we both
-put forth theories of what we know and also try to understand what we do not know and
-then try to explain it with what we know or postulate with what we do not Yet know.

so while science is there on one side, the other side is also science but only if we have the openness to understand that we may not know everything


But then of course ..maybe there IS no difference

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I think that both sides have ADEQUATELY vented their opinions and stand in the mattter.

I really dont see why adult minds want to IMPOSE their views and keep pushing tthat others should look at matters the way They do .... :sad:

Bhagwan has posted about his experiment. Why are the others going overboard to 'Convert' him to their path of thinking ?

It is essential that we respect the other's point of view even though we may not agree....

If you find the opinion so repulsive, just ignore this thread and move on.... there are Tons of other threads where you can share ( biy not impose) your 'wisdom.'

Just for the record...

I am not interested in converting anybody. I dislike evangelism.

I am interested in honest and decent business practices, consumer rights, and so on. You can find this in some of my posts on other subjects.

There are many instances in life where, just because people are prepared to pay for certain goods and services is no reason that those goods or services are considered right, moral or even legal.

A forum like ours should take a stand against this stuff. That's my belief, but it is obvious that it is not going to happen.

I'm now going away. I'm going to make some toast. Being, at least a bit of an audiophile, perhaps you'd all like to debate on how my toast will come out. I mean... surely it can't just be an ordinary toaster, even if it was in the shop?

 

[bhagwan]

So we have SCIENCE on one side with all it's measurements and reasoning et.al. and on the other, we have a test being conducted which is non scientific with no measurements but with REAL people substituting for measurements and who will give their opinions on what they hear.

One piece of advice to Bhagwan - after publishing the results, walk away. It's only going to get worse

Sir,
I too am aware that as far as TCPIP Protocol is concerned - there is no diff;
This is an established fact.
However, the TCPIP Protocol is in place for Networking & Data Transfer etc.
I am not so sure [only because of lac of sufficient data] if this Cable is used to transfer data that is 'played' as music - eventually.
Just like an USB Cable - the whole world uses a USB Cable, but a few audiophiles use it for Music Transfer to a DAC & therefore the quality of the USB has an effect on the final sound.
No Science can prove it or disprove it in any manner.

Not that I can prove anything in either direction;
But I am testing it out.
I did the Test for USB & Firewire Cables & the Cables did make a lot of change. The Siltech G7 Cables were the best I tested - by far viz a viz many branded & non branded options.

In this case, I have done my test, not I have other people in line to visit & do their listening & let me know.
Once that is done, I will put my findings in the open.
If someone wants to dispute it - sure they can, I have no way to stop them from doing so.
If things have to get 'worse' so be it.
Why do I need to change what I arrived at - just because some people cannot accept it ?
They have a right not to accept it & I have a right so say what I found.
We can agree to disagree - I am 100 % OK with that....

Sir, I want to re-state that Audio is 100 % Subjective to me.
What sounds good to me - may not be musical to you or to someone else & what is musical & correct to you or to others may not be good to my ears.
That does not mean that you / I or anyone else can or cannot hear, it is just that we have difference taste & our priorities are different & we should be able to accept the plurality in things;

I can accept & respect your opinion, just hope you [others] can accept my point of view [by accept I do not mean that you agree to it - but let it co-exist] !

 

[bhagwan]

But then of course ..maybe there IS no difference

I just love that last line...
That to me is the Line of this thread; 15 + pages of it...
Too Good !
Well said Arj !
:yahoo:

:licklips:

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

However, the TCPIP Protocol is in place for Networking & Data Transfer etc.
I am not so sure [only because of lac of sufficient data] if this Cable is used to transfer data that is 'played' as music - eventually.

If, by some software design, it is not, then shouldn't you find that out? Appropriate information has to be gathered, surely, as part of any experiment.

I too am aware that as far as TCPIP Protocol is concerned - there is no diff;
This is an established fact.

OK... so if it is, then you could have saved yourself some cash and a lot of time.

If it is not, then other things can be considered.

The answer to that is with the software developers.

No Science can prove it or disprove it in any manner.

Well, this rather widens the argument to potentially include, err... everything. If science could not "measure" what you hear then there would be no recorded music to listen to.

There seem to be lots of people (at least on the internet, who "hear" the difference in networking methods/media. Perhaps they are 100% fooling themselves; perhaps they are hearing a real difference but misinterpreting the cause. Famous words from a wise (albeit fictional!) man: When you eliminated the impossible, then whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth." But there seems to be a problem here with step one!

 

[IndianEars]

I am interested in honest and decent business practices, consumer rights, and so on.

There are many instances in life where, just because people are prepared to pay for certain goods and services is no reason that those goods or services are considered right, moral or even legal.

A forum like ours should take a stand against this stuff. That's my belief

To me this sounds like you want to IMPOSE your view, and ban sales of certain HiFi accessories that YOU feel not right, immoral or illegal (LOL) .....:sad:

 

[keith_correa]

<snip>I'm now going away. I'm going to make some toast. Being, at least a bit of an audiophile, perhaps you'd all like to debate on how my toast will come out. I mean... surely it can't just be an ordinary toaster, even if it was in the shop?

I will not debate. Because I do not know which brand your toaster is. And what bread you are using. And I will wait for you to tell us if it was toasted well. Once you do I will even believe you. :licklips:

 

[ghatgepatil]

Full techno-comm time-pass thread this! :clapping: