CAT 7 - Ethernet Cable - Revelation Audio Labs - USA -

Do you Think CAT Cables between 2 Computers has an affect on the Sound Quality ?

  • Yes, the CAT Cables will make a change in Sound

    Votes: 3 10.3%
  • No, the CAT Cable will have no effect on the Sound

    Votes: 26 89.7%

  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .
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....
It is so good, that we could not wish for a better courier. In fact, a better courier simply would not be possible. That is why a "better" network flylead is not possible, and why it doesn't matter if it carrying music, ATM withdrawal data, or connects a remote surgeon to the robot knife doing the job. And why anyone who tries to sell you one is wrong. And why it is a mistake, based on various misunderstandings, to buy one.
...

.


Thad, I'm Still waiting for an ATM machine that gives me at least .000001 % extra than what I requested for withdrawal.!!!:ohyeah:

...something FAR less than most of the "Tolerance" limits of any Audio Equipments Parts(or lets say the most EXPENSIVE Audio GEAR in the world) used.( say Resistors, capacitors, diodes etc )

If this happens, I'll look for another ATM/online transfers that can give me say 5%!!!. I may quit 9-5 job, Check a Bank and an ATM nearby, Draw the amount, deposit it next( be-friend an employee to credit at the earliest! or deal with 2 bank accounts and transfer immediately), this will be 12am to 12pm job:D and think of overcoming RBI rules on the limits etc etc.
Oh! what life I for-see:rolleyes:!!!


...this is as far as digital communication is concerned.
...hmm.... 24hrs of nonstop music
 
Again my knowledge on this topic is almost non existent - but the - CAT Cable is carrying 0 volts to 3 volts when it actually transmits data - I think & the material used [purity of copper - alloy] / geometry of that cable [twist] / the shielding [number of layers - thickness] / the 'skin effect' / the plastic - polymer - teflon used / lots of other materials in the chain can / could have a bearing on the data that is transmitted - this is just a maybe - I do not know - I am asking; Kindly shed some light if possible - I shall truly appreciate.

You are correct on the whole account (not sure about the voltages specified). Signals do get affected by the materials. The advantage here is this is not an analog signal i.e. absolute value of the signal is of no use :). In an ideal design, 0V = 0, 3V = 1 for binary signals. However, we do not live in an ideal world. So the simple digital receiever can be designed such that 0V - 1V = 0, 1.1V - 4V = 1. So even if signal degrades from 3V to 2V, it will still be a 1 on receiver. If the signal degrades from 0V(0) to 2.5V(1), it means data is corrupted. This corrupt data will be discarded because the crc/checksum will not match the data. The biggest advantage is, as mentioned earlier, absolute value of the signal does not matter at all. The above is just a hypothetical system and real electronics egineers (am not one) are smart enough to come up with far more complex designs to take care of these problems. Lets not assume signal degradation affects only audiophiles ;).

To people parroting the audiophile mantra "We do not know what to measure" - Ethernet is a standard, which means it is agreed upon set of rules that everybody follows. These rules are made after much deliberations by some of the brightest minds in the industry. In other words, it has been decided what to measure, how to measure and what to do if its not up to the measure :). The system is in use by millions of computers worldwide doing trillions of dollars worth of transactions which is a testament to its accuracy.

PS: Bhagwan, i apologize if you feel am attacking you. Thats not the intention. Just want want people to reward companies coming up with inventive meritorious product rather than snake (skin) oil.
 
<snip> <snip>The mind seems to play an unbelievably big role in such experiments, auditions, reviews and purchases more than the ears.

Well said Santy....You have hit the nail on the head.... This happens to all of us...
 
@bhagwan
Sorry, my post was not referring to any specific cable or person. It was a general opinion.:) I know financials are immaterial while doing experiments and I appreciate the efforts you took to conduct it. I am aware of your rich and invaluable experience in listening to (and setting up) high end audio. Many FMs know how capable you are in differentiating the nuances introduced by various components in a music chain. Otherwise they wouldn't be following this thread.

What I see is that affluent audiophiles who are ready to spend 10,000 USD on an analog IC do not mind spending 1,000 USD on a CAT cable. I was only trying to understand what motivates them to go for it, even when science cannot explain how they can be better.
 
Thad, I'm Still waiting for an ATM machine that gives me at least .000001 % extra than what I requested for withdrawal.!!!:ohyeah:
24hrs of nonstop music

Respected Sir,
With the permission of the Mods - I will go with this for a while;
All ATM Machines will give to you the exact same amount that you ask for.
It cannot & will not give to you 1 Rs. more or 1 Rs. less.
However, all ATM Machines will not give to you :-

Same Currency Split [Break up of note denominations]
Quality of Note - New / Old

There may be other parameters that may exist, I do not know what they all are;

But to try and connect it to the CAT Cable Experiment Thread - All CAT Cables will transmit the same data - nothing more / nothing less - however, what I want to know is what the currency note split is & which one [if there is a difference] is 'liked' by bhagwan - if at all....

I apologize to the Mods - once again for going OT [of sorts] !
 
@bhagwan
Sorry, my post was not referring to any specific cable or person. It was a general opinion.:) I know financials are immaterial while doing experiments and I appreciate the efforts you took to conduct it. I am aware of your rich and invaluable experience in listening to (and setting up) high end audio. Many FMs know how capable you are in differentiating the nuances introduced by various components in a music chain. Otherwise they wouldn't be following this thread.

What I see is that affluent audiophiles who are ready to spend 10,000 USD on an analog IC do not mind spending 1,000 USD on a CAT cable. I was only trying to understand what motivates them to go for it, even when science cannot explain how they can be better.

@ Santy;
Point noted - no offence was intended & none was taken.:)

With regards Audio & Audiophiles in 'general'
There are many sorts;
I will not get into trying to classify them - this will get OT & too long..
In my experience over the years - I too have changed - as a lover of music & as an audiophile.
It is a learning curve & time is all that one needs to invest with an open mind and an ear for good sound - this is a habbit that needs to be inculcated - it is not easy & unless one submits to humility & gets ready to accept change - one will never grow or improve in once ability to listen & decipher what one has heard - so has been my observation in the past 15 + years of trying to be an audiophile....

Just try and imagine - this Forum is filled with Techies from Hyderabad / Bangalore etc. [I do not even know them] & in their heart of heart [actually in their brain] they must be laughing at me for ever trying to start this thread;

What do I stand to gain from it ?

I could actually do this - privately - & no one needed to know.
Why am I posting it here ?
 
1 more was received by me - this afternoon;
A FM dropped it off to my place.

I shall connect & add this to the 4 CAT Cables I already have.

What I got is :-

Uploaded with ImageShack.com
Uploaded with ImageShack.com
Uploaded with ImageShack.com

I already had a DIY Belden Cable with me - this is a 'factory terminated' one & will know soon - how this performs....
:yahoo:
 
@Bhagwan - based on your ATM analogy, will the quality of note determine its value? in other words, will the new notes from one ATM allow you to buy more than an old but acceptable note of same denomination from second ATM?
 
@Bhagwan - based on your ATM analogy, will the quality of note determine its value? in other words, will the new notes from one ATM allow you to buy more than an old but acceptable note of same denomination from second ATM?

Sir,
This is still OT.
If the ATM's gave different amounts of money - they would be 'malfunctioning'
In the same context - if the cables [CAT] changed what they were to send - it would not be correct;
However, some Can / Could give :-
  • New Notes - Crisp
  • 100 Rs. Notes
  • 500 Rs. Notes
  • 1000 Rs. Notes
  • Different Combinations of the above.
These are what we 'audiophiles' call 'flavours'
Cables do not change the music - they deliver it in different flavours.
Basically - it has been observed as per this link [by some international audiophiles]
http://jplay.eu/forum/computer-audio/ethernet-cat-5-or-6-cables-influence-on-sound-quality./
That CAT Cables 'do affect' the 'sound'
Therefore, I decided to do this experiment of my own - to try and determine the merit of their claim - first hand.

Small request - let us not drift & discuss ATM etc. [mowgli80 Sir]
Shall appreciate.
I really want to do this in as 'serious' manner as possible & come to some understanding as to what is going on & if some 'techic' could chip in and offer some serious technical reasoning as to why it is happening - it would be very contributory to this thread & all our understanding in general; Please..
:)
 
<snip>When an affluent family goes out to dine, they don't only order what they can eat. They order a lot extra, fully aware in the back of their mind that they won't be eating all of that. Why? Because they just want to have the options. They just want to make sure that they didn't have any wish left, didn't have to feel they should have also ordered so and so stuff.

When people can afford, they spend over and above what they should/need. Their expenses are not governed strictly by the need. It's human nature.<snip>
This is a generalization! I have affluent [as compared to me] friends, have dined with them and their families and in MY experience, NOT ONE of them have exhibited behaviour like this. In fact most of them act the opposite - they are careful to order only what they will consume. Perhaps that is what made them affluent in the first place.
 
Sorry ... did not clarify the analogy. The music that you get is the value of the notes. Pretty or not, both carry the same value. If your ultimate aim is to pay somebody, the quality of notes do not matter as long as it has acceptable value. Similarly if music is all that matters, the data is still the same signal degraded or not.

Regarding the link, I just see rich people discussing their expensive purchase without an iota of technical discussion. I think I know how credible that is :D.

Will put an end to this discussion now as per your request :).
 
IMHO, all such audiophile accessories (mostly cables) that claim to have technically un-provable qualities are probably manufactured for one reason; to eliminate that iota of 'uncertainty' that exists in the minds of ultra-high end audiophiles that that component in the chain could limit them from achieving what they classify as the "purest sound".
It is not to eliminate the uncertainty, it is to encourage and profit by it. Shorter word: Scam.

Another view is of those that are crazy but sincere. Another word: arrogance.

It is hard to be polite on this one. What the hell makes some company think that it can (if it sincerely does think so) do better than a very highly developed technological industry?

This is not some hobby audio cable we are talking about. It is not something that is made for hifi systems which belong to the minority and [according to some, without whom there would not be a market] can be enhanced for the minority of the minority who pay a high price for that. It is network cable.

Cables do not change the music - they deliver it in different flavours.

You have given no answer to any of the technical posts, and you have, apparently, completely ignored my last explanation of why network cables do not because they cannot.

OK, so in line with my thinking that, if the networking cannot make a difference, but there is one, what would make that difference? My first suspect would be the most important interconnect of all: the mind. But could it be, as others have posted on the net, to do with electrical noise?

Hmmm... What electrical noise is one network cable going to introduce to one machine when both are in the same noise electrical environment and both are connected to the same mains supply? And how is this going to affect our dearly-beloved data? Well, at least these are valid questions although I believe that they are covered already in the Ethernet device/cable design. Perhaps someone like Mowgli80 can confirm this please. If this is the case, the answer, cleverly mentioned by someone on another forum, is either to use isolation devices, or even better --- use fibre :)

But, honestly, in industrial/commercial applications where the data matters a whole heap more than audio, and where the consequences of unreliability are much greater than one of us music lovers getting a headache, what will you see? Miles of Catn ethernet cabling.

I really want to do this in as 'serious' manner as possible & come to some understanding as to what is going on & if some 'techic' could chip in and offer some serious technical reasoning as to why it is happening - it would be very contributory to this thread & all our understanding in general; Please.
Do you? Because so far, that has happened, and you have ignored or sidestepped it all. It has all been explained. I have put a lot of effort into my explanations, and all to no avail.

If you want to do something extraordinary, over the top and experimental, and say, "look, there is no chance of anything but data passing from one machine to another, or being picked up on the way," then, as mentioned, use fibre. At least there is some technical validity in that: there is none in cosmetically altered catn cables.

Those who want to run and buy this stuff, and tell each other, on and offline, how it changes the sound, will continue to buy them. They will continue not to make any actual investigation into the technology that they are using, because that would stop them doing so. The companies will continue to make money.

All I hope is that various posts here might just loose those companies a sale or two. I have no hopes at all that those product lines will die off: the uncertainty/scam/arrogance syndrome will rule.

Even in those countries that have effective trading standards legislation and enforcement nobody seems to care about these minority bloodsuckers.

To repeat my Engineering friend's quote: thank god the pro audio world is not like this. And, the next time I have to buy any cables, I will buy the stuff that the pro-audio people use. It will be a vote for sanity, and a financial mark of support, on principle, for the companies that want no part in the madness. Now I expect my post will be deleted. Anyway, at this point I'd better give up. Anyway, I like this forum and the people I meet through it: I don't want to get banned :)


.
 
Last edited:
This is a generalization!

I am sorry, I do not know all your affluent friends, so I didn't take into account what they do before making my post. My bad. I would refrain from making generalized comments from now on. I would add a disclaimer that I do not know "keith_correa"'s affluent friends, so please don't take my opinion as a whole truth.

Everyone reading this please make note of my disclaimer.

they are careful to order only what they will consume. Perhaps that is what made them affluent in the first place.

I couldn't find an easier way to become affluent. :yahoo:

If you only order what you can consume, you become affluent. How cool :cool: :clapping:

You learn something new everyday in your life. :lol:
 
It is not to eliminate the uncertainty, it is to encourage and profit by it. Shorter word: Scam.

Another view is of those that are crazy but sincere. Another word: arrogance.

It is hard to be polite on this one. What the hell makes some company think that it can (if it sincerely does think so) do better than a very highly developed technological industry?

This is not some hobby audio cable we are talking about. It is not something that is made for hifi systems which belong to the minority and [according to some, without whom there would not be a market] can be enhanced for the minority of the minority who pay a high price for that. It is network cable.



You have given no answer to any of the technical posts, and you have, apparently, completely ignored my last explanation of why network cables do not because they cannot.

OK, so in line with my thinking that, if the networking cannot make a difference, but there is one, what would make that difference? My first suspect would be the most important interconnect of all: the mind. But could it be, as others have posted on the net, to do with electrical noise?

Hmmm... What electrical noise is one network cable going to introduce to one machine when both are in the same noise electrical environment and both are connected to the same mains supply? And how is this going to affect our dearly-beloved data? Well, at least these are valid questions although I believe that they are covered already in the Ethernet device/cable design. Perhaps someone like Mowgli80 can confirm this please. If this is the case, the answer, cleverly mentioned by someone on another forum, is either to use isolation devices, or even better --- use fibre :)

But, honestly, in industrial/commercial applications where the data matters a whole heap more than audio, and where the consequences of unreliability are much greater than one of us music lovers getting a headache, what will you see? Miles of Catn ethernet cabling.

Do you? Because so far, that has happened, and you have ignored or sidestepped it all. It has all been explained. I have put a lot of effort into my explanations, and all to no avail.

If you want to do something extraordinary, over the top and experimental, and say, "look, there is no chance of anything but data passing from one machine to another, or being picked up on the way," then, as mentioned, use fibre. At least there is some technical validity in that: there is none in cosmetically altered catn cables.

Those who want to run and buy this stuff, and tell each other, on and offline, how it changes the sound, will continue to buy them. They will continue not to make any actual investigation into the technology that they are using, because that would stop them doing so. The companies will continue to make money.

All I hope is that various posts here might just loose those companies a sale or two. I have no hopes at all that those product lines will die off: the uncertainty/scam/arrogance syndrome will rule.

Even in those countries that have effective trading standards legislation and enforcement nobody seems to care about these minority bloodsuckers.

To repeat my Engineering friend's quote: thank god the pro audio world is not like this. And, the next time I have to buy any cables, I will buy the stuff that the pro-audio people use. It will be a vote for sanity, and a financial mark of support, on principle, for the companies that want no part in the madness. Now I expect my post will be deleted. Anyway, at this point I'd better give up. Anyway, I like this forum and the people I meet through it: I don't want to get banned :)


.


+10 :yahoo:

Calling a Spade a Spade is necessary sometimes. :)
 
And calling a bare-wire connection a bare-wire connection might be even better :lol:

(but I still want to go for ultrasonic welding. We all have our weaknesses and prejudices :D )
 
Dear Bhagwan, please post your comments...we are all waiting eagerly and too many posts are being added to this thread unnecessarily.....

Do give us an unbiased opinion if the cable makes a difference or not and if yes, how much?
 
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