CAT 7 - Ethernet Cable - Revelation Audio Labs - USA -

[bhagwan]

OK... so if it is, then you could have saved yourself some cash and a lot of time.

Time - I have enjoyed doing this;
Cash - not much has been spent - less that what I spend on a pair of Power Cord Connectors - so no issue at all;
Oyaide F1
All the CAT Cables I have cost less than Rs. 300/- each.
So not much monsy has been spent.
The RAL costed me 350/- US $ [slightly expensive] - I know [relatively speaking] !

The Time Factor is far [far] more expensive & the time of the other fellow audiophile to visit & spend 2 hours each to test things they are not concerned about or connected with - that is really difficult....
Except 1 person - no one else plays the Computer Audio Game & that person has moved to a NAS & Direct to DAC now;

I am still trying...
Let me see what happens.
1 week more - next Monday all will be in the open I am sure....

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

To me this sounds like you want to IMPOSE your view, and ban sales of certain HiFi accessories that YOU feel not right, immoral or illegal (LOL) .

It's dodgy ground indeed. You know the song, "If I ruled the world..."? It serves as a reminder that I'm very glad that I don't, not only because the world's problems are far, far beyond my small mind, but also because I could not trust myself to be reasonable or simply could not be made to work.

An example of this is prohibition. Personally, I believe that alcohol is so harmful to the body and to society that it should not be legal, and is only legal because of entrenched economic interests. On the other hand, I'm forced to recognise that prohibition has never, and probably would never work. Moreover, I also believe in the right of a person to poison themselves. How do I reconcile this? I don't have to, because, luckily, there is no chance of my ruling anything at all

More down to earth, and perhaps, nearer to topic: how about ultrasonic mosquito repellents? Yep... I've bought them, and discovered for myself that they do not work. Just after I bought one in UK they were outlawed by trading standards authorities. It seems that, yes, science knew along that these things don't work. A few months later, I would have been protected from wasting my money.

Now, between a device that cannot possibly work and a cable that cannot possibly work, where do we draw the line? Between one scam device and another? Where do we limit the freedom of the individual to get scammed, and the freedom of business to scam?

How about if it is not an insect machine, but crack cocaine or opium?

This is all just food for thought (although perhaps not in the sense that Grace Slick sang: "Feed you head!"): there are no certain answers, but there is some good mental exercise in the contemplation.

I will not debate. Because I do not know which brand your toaster is.

Yes, it is tricky. There is no standard to which toasters are made. Maybe I should take this up with the politicians as something they should attend to :lol:. But the point is that, like toasters, PCs do not change their nature or their working because they are used for music.

Bhagwan, enjoy your experiment in peace, but if you get a result that is anything other than neutral, then I believe that the question is why there should be a difference, or you (plural) should have heard one. Even if we do not rule out the impossible, I do think it should be last, not first, on the list of suspects.

 

[arj]

.. surely it can't just be an ordinary toaster, even if it was in the shop?

which power chord do you use with the toaster ? hyeah:
and maybe you should use a static gun on the bread...

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Somewhere, I have one of those old tapehead demagnetisers...

 

[mowgli80]

I know I said I would stop ... but am tempted to say one last thing just to clear some confusion.

TCP/IP is NOT Ethernet. Ethernet does not understand the data being sent i.e. Instead of TCPIP, you can use any other protocol (google FCOE) and ethernet doesn't care. Ethernet will ALWAYS verify the sanctity of ethernet packet/frame irrespective of data inside.

 

[keith_correa]

I know I said I would stop ... but am tempted to say one last thing just to clear some confusion.

TCP/IP is NOT Ethernet. Ethernet does not understand the data being sent i.e. Instead of TCPIP, you can use any other protocol (google FCOE) and it doesn't care. It will ALWAYS verify the sanctity of ethernet packet/frame irrespective of data inside.

Sorry for being dense but WHO are you referring to that will not do the caring and will do the verification?

 

[ranjeetrain]

The person who is conducting this says it is OK if it works and it is OK if it doesn't. He is just trying to find out if it does or does not work. Now if there is a +ve sonic difference [psychoacoustic or whatever] experienced, how are we going to react? Are the naysayers [me included] then going to still stick to our stand that it doesn't make a difference - despite NOT experiencing this ourselves? I would think the onus would be on us to then disprove that it made a difference. And how are we going to do that? Are we then going to stick to the same chestnut of "networking" principles and how it SHOULD not make a difference etc etc?

Exactly my thoughts!

One piece of advice to Bhagwan - after publishing the results, walk away. It's only going to get worse

I have the same fear :lol:

 

[mowgli80]

i thought the limelight is on ethernet so "it" will make sense ... my bad ... modified the post

 

[Santy]

Talking about toaster, I think this is one of the hottest thread on our forum in quite some time. Keeps popping up frequently on the home page. Lot of burning smell too.

Now who added the poll to it, even after knowing that those who vote have never conducted such an experiment? I mean what's the point. With such level of uncertainty prevailing (on judgement), its as good as tossing a coin.

Wait a min, Rs. 300? You mean its no more snake oil? Not even close to the infamous Denon ethernet cable? No fun anymore? :sad:

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I know I said I would stop ... but am tempted to say one last thing just to clear some confusion.

TCP/IP is NOT Ethernet. Ethernet does not understand the data being sent i.e. Instead of TCPIP, you can use any other protocol (google FCOE) and ethernet doesn't care. Ethernet will ALWAYS verify the sanctity of ethernet packet/frame irrespective of data inside.

The discussion has been simplified to avoid many of the technical details. On my part, that is because having a vague mental picture of the levels of networking is quite different to being able to explain it. For starters, I'd have to take time to study it all again. a) I'm a bit lazy and b) I do believe that much more authoritative stuff is going to come from you and others who, I guess, work with this stuff and have certainly studied it.

I was tempted to embroider my courier analogy, by including the guys in the offices who are actually sending the content to each other, and who neither know nor care how it gets there, and the despatch/receipt departments who pass it on to the courier.

1. it would have spoilt the essential simplicity of the analogy, which although technically incomplete does, I believe, stand.

2. I am not, these days, anything like familiar enough with those levels that are on the board in every network course opening class. I woulud have cocked it up and spoilt the whole thing

3. I have always been a bit confused by the differences between the OSI model and the TCP/IP reality.

.

 

[bhagwan]

Wait a min, Rs. 300? You mean its no more snake oil? Not even close to the infamous Denon ethernet cable? No fun anymore? :sad:

Sir,
What impression were you under ?
All the Cat Cables I have - except RAL are in and around the same price i.e. Rs. 300/- [+ / - Rs. 100/-]
The Only Expensive Cable is the RAL @ US $'s 350/- & the Supra Cat 7+ [when I get it collected from La Kozy]
This is not about money - it is simply about CAT Cables - it they do or they do not affect the sound - simple.

I never understand why money has to get dragged into anything / every conversation.
No One is 'buying' or 'selling' any product here - only in the wanted & for sale sections - should money come into the picture.

No fun anymore?

Sir,
It is sad if you look at this as 'fun'
I am trying to do some serious thing here;
However frivolous it may seem to you & to ever other techie - there is a 'global' discussion on the CAT Cable in Audio
& I am trying to establish its 'varsity' one way or the other.

Do remember, there is no cake to bake here [rather bread to toast - as the word is doing the rounds]
I have no interest in the outcome - 1 way or the other - I am trying to do it in a 'subjective' manner - cause I do not
have any 'objective' manner in which I can do it.

If some FM has any suggestion - as to how I can improve what process I am exploring - please do contribute, I will
surely try by best to accommodate.

Thanks;

 

[jls001]

ban sales of certain HiFi accessories that YOU feel not right, immoral or illegal (LOL) .....:sad:

Someone said that all good things in life are either illegal, immoral or fattening:lol:

 

[Santy]

Sir,
It is sad if you look at this as 'fun'

Dear Sir, you mistook me yet again. Fun is not in the experiment. Fun was extracted from the conversations happening outside the lab. Fun was in the pun and humour enveloping it. Fun was in the smileys many have used here. I honestly respect the experiment and seriously looking forward for the judgement. I may never need the CAT cables but if the judgement is in favour of the cable, I promise I won't write anywhere that they don't make any difference. To that extent I respect your ears. Hope I have clarified.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I never understand why money has to get dragged into anything / every conversation.

Simple.

Cat Cables ... in and around the same price i.e. Rs. 300/-
Expensive Cable is the RAL @ US $'s 350/-

If a difference of 7000% is not worth talking about, then what is?

I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about the people who sell these things. Although, of course, without buyers they wouldn't be able to.

If this was a Rs.600 cable, with some audiophile-attractive features, I would have muttered a rude word that means "rubbish," and passed on my way, just like I do when scammed out of small change by someone. And anyway, even I like my cables to look nice.

Let me put it this way: Hypothetically, if you thought that this product was actually worthless, what would you think of the price tag and the seller?

Money has to get dragged into this because it is a measure of the scam. This is this conversation, not any other.

 

[bhagwan]

Money has to get dragged into this because it is a measure of the scam. This is this conversation, not any other.

Point noted;

Now, just for the sake of the experiment - let us take for a 'given' that all the Cables cost Rs. 200/- to Rs. 400/-none cost more.
Actually all the 4 Cables are within that price - Rs. 100/- to Rs. 400/-
Only the RAL has that 'expensive price tag' so let us not talk about that.

Hence, from 5 the result has boiled down to 4;

Now, here - within the Rs. 400/- & lower price points - what if CAT Cables change the sound ? Then how do we justify it ?
What scientific explanation can I offer ? I surely do not have any - but can the techies offer any reason as to why it can or should happen ?

@ Santy - 'Fun is not in the experiment'
I apologise - I misunderstood you

2 more people just left my house.
So now 3 + me = 4 have done the test.
Expecting 3 more to visit this week.
I will keep all reports with me & shall post soon.

Thank You;

 

[denom]

Bhagwan,

Pls let us have the results by eid

Will wish you for sure.

 

[Shahrukh]

@bhagwan Since you guys have been at this since Saturday, I fathom you are indeed hearing differences. Not just between the RAL and the others, but between the generic cables themselves too.

My suggestion is this. Get off this thread, listen, come to your conclusions and start a fresh thread with the results. Maybe then the discussions will be more interesting. Maybe then people will add more insightful observations to the thread.

You don't owe anybody any explanations to what you're up to. You're doing a test and sharing the results for everyone's better awareness here.

 

[bhagwan]

Bhagwan,

Pls let us have the results by eid

Will wish you for sure.

Sir,
I would give it to you today;
However, the full panel has not visited as yet.
Therefore I am 'forced' to wait.
Only once they get done with it - do I want to post...
That way, I get a 'cross' section of opinions.
BTW - no no [not now] - later...

 

[bhagwan]

@bhagwan Since you guys have been at this since Saturday, I fathom you are indeed hearing differences. Not just between the RAL and the others, but between the generic cables themselves too.

My suggestion is this. Get off this thread, listen, come to your conclusions and start a fresh thread with the results. Maybe then the discussions will be more interesting. Maybe then people will add more insightful observations to the thread.

You don't owe anybody any explanations to what you're up to. You're doing a test and sharing the results for everyone's better awareness here.

Hello Shahrukh !

Let us forget the RAL - it is not important = at all;
We shall assume that the test is between all under Rs. 400/- 'generic cables'
I am 100 % OK with that;
I have always stated - price is not important at all.
Performance is & that is all I am after...

start a fresh thread with the results. Maybe then the discussions will be more interesting. Maybe then people will add more insightful observations to the thread.

How will this help ?
They can say what they want to here - there is no restriction - so long as it is a serious comment & not under the belt jokes etc.
I am 100 % OK to listen to criticism & reasons & explanations - if there are any.

1 thing is for sure - as of today the result is 4/0 [# of people that can / could hear a difference in the 5 cables]
What they all liked was not the same - that is a different story alltogether.
That all shall be revealed on a different day -when I have finished compilation.

 

[captrajesh]

even though I know the 'techic' in you knows that this is all 'snake skin oil' [just to use the phrase that has been doing the rounds] !! Really it means a lot to me..:clapping:

Ha ha..I am surprised you figured it out !! I wish I was in mumbai..would have loved to hear it with my own 2 skeptical ears..which have been humbled a Lot in the past few years.

Some cryptic communication going on?

So we have SCIENCE on one side with all it's measurements and reasoning et.al.

Correction: With all it's known measurements and reasoning.

Are the naysayers [me included] then going to still stick to our stand that it doesn't make a difference - despite NOT experiencing this ourselves? I would think the onus would be on us to then disprove that it made a difference.

Don't know how to react. Can't fathom why would someone want to disagree with something which they have not even experienced! Truly beats me!!!

so while science is there on one side, the other side is also science but only if we have the openness to understand that we may not know everything

:thumbsup:

Someone said that all good things in life are either illegal, immoral or fattening:lol:

Addition: or belong to someone else.