Denon 1513 and Wharfedale MS 100 Speaker

[Sukhi Gill]

Get the demo with Denon & Yamaha AVR and decide yourself, if possible. Marantz will definitely sound musical.. & to expect 2.0 musical notes from such small satellites is wrong (internal AVR radio may sound good). So go for your 5.1 Movies satisfaction @85%.

 

[gokul1980]

Hi Rupam

Thanks for your response.

My room size is 14' X 18'. 14' being the viewing or listening distance. My usage would be 50:50. The other day i also auditioned the Bose GS II Cinemate speakers. I felt they were good. However, they cost around 56k and that too just the 2.1 system. I am in a fix now as my wife says we will go for Bose. Money is not the issue here. The issue is i am unable to understand the benefits of having a good AVR and good set of speakers.

If someone could explain the pros and cons it would be great. In turn i would love to explain that to my wife. Looking forward for your response guys..

Thanks,
Gokul

 

[Rupam]

Don't ever waste your money for Bose. The Brand name commands the premium not their performance. Your wife may be pleased with it because of its aesthetic appeal but for an av enthusiast Bose is just a hype.
Wharfedale MS 100 will be better than Bose GS II Cinemate.
I would say that Wharfedale MS 100 is very good for music. The sound is balanced and sweet. With Marantz it will definitely sound musical and beautiful.
AV MAX_Wharfedale MS-100 HCP_March 2012-1.pdf

Here is a review of my speaker system by AV MAX.

 

[Sukhi Gill]

I didn't know the musical capability of MS-100 satellites as yet to get. Bose is just a status symbol. I went twice to Bose showroom here in Ludhiana. Checked there two 5.1 systems @ 1.25 & 1.95 lacs, the latter had dipole sats. The sales guy played the 'barso re' song from movie Guru by M. Ratnam.

My Experience -

5.1 soundtrack was awesome, I was feeling the background pouring rain in song perfectly.. Firstly he played it in single cubes & then switched the same song in dipole cubes.. increased power was noticeable but for small to medium rooms single cubes are more than sufficient. Then we moved to Avatar DVD, again I was impressed with the action sequences. Vocals & effects were crystal clear. I made up my mind to go for it instead of searching from here & there. But I am equally inclined towards music so asked the guy to play any song in 2.0 stereo mode. Here Bose didn't qualify though I respect it because of Amar Bose, an Indian, the founder of Bose. The guy played recent Hindi film song, full range drivers delivered their best without being harsh but with restricted sound stage which you cannot judge easily in small 6.12 showrooms. Then I asked him to play any Jagjit Singh ghazal.. he played it from the movie Arth & I noticed an immediate decline in sound stage. It sounded like radio station (digital file in both songs not ACD). I came back to my house & finally decided to go for seperate 5.1 & 2.0 channel setup from the biggies like Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Tannoy, Wharfedale.. WHY NOT if you can get MS-100 with AVR @ 60k including cables. I am sure MS-100 satellites will also sound like Bose/maybe better in 2.0 channel. I think Bose is best for a person who can afford it without asking audiophile grade questions. The other major problem is their big Acoustimass subwoofer which even they recommend to hide anywhere in the room. My room is 12.18 (under construction) & I am getting MS-100 with Yamaha/Denon for sure in next two months. Rest of my budget went to Marantz PM6004 + Tannoy V1 pair, I am enjoying music to the fullest & waiting for MS-100's turn eagerly. Rupam is using it & can guide you better. Thanks.

 

[Sukhi Gill]

Hey Rupam you suggested Denon 1713 in recent post.. What is lacking in your 1513?? Is it airplay & audyssey factor? You also said Denon is the master of HD audio, Can you please explain it properly? Thanks.

 

[Rupam]

Having a separate system for music and movies is ideal. Denon 1513 is good but does not have Audyssey, so if you prefer automatic music calibration, then you might like Denon 1713.
Sound quality wise they have the same parameters. Its the tweaking that matters. As I have some experience in AV, I prefer to calibrate my speakers manually.
The main point why I advised Denon 1713 is for its USB facility. Mr. Gokul can enjoy music easily. It has also Cinema Equalizer. Sound is composed but exciting.
Denon is best suited for theater sound. It fills your room effortlessly.

 

[Sukhi Gill]

As you calibrate your speakers manually so I want to ask an imp. question Rupam coz I am a beginner for 5.1 setup & your help can save many minor to major errors. My room is 12 feet broad & 18 feet long, due to main door opening towards TV wall I am left with net 6 feet only to seperate my front L,R speakers which I think is sufficient for my rectangular room. But due to my Tannoy mercury V1 bookshelf speakers in front & same 6 feet apart I will have to uplift my MS-100 L,R channels from ear level (normally 45 inches in sitting position). So how much maximum ht. you suggest for fronts in case of our MS-100?

Center channel - I am thinking of installing it above my plasma as we get more open space for vocals, at 68 inches appx.

Surround channels - At 65 inches & appx. 9 feet apart, on rear wall not possible on side walls as bed touching rear wall.

Subwoofer - in front most likely, I will take care of back firing dual port.

IS IT CORRECT??

And last thing - Do the wall brackets supplied with MS-100 speakers have aligning adjustment with allen key so that I can tilt my littlebit high Front L,R downwards & same with center channel towards a sweet spot- in centre of the room?? Can Audyssey in 1713 & YPAO in Yamaha 373 correct it automatically with provided mic??? Thanks a lotttt as 4 questions.

 

[edge111hussain]

As you calibrate your speakers manually so I want to ask an imp. question Rupam coz I am a beginner for 5.1 setup & your help can save many minor to major errors. My room is 12 feet broad & 18 feet long, due to main door opening towards TV wall I am left with net 6 feet only to seperate my front L,R speakers which I think is sufficient for my rectangular room. But due to my Tannoy mercury V1 bookshelf speakers in front & same 6 feet apart I will have to uplift my MS-100 L,R channels from ear level (normally 45 inches in sitting position). So how much maximum ht. you suggest for fronts in case of our MS-100?

Center channel - I am thinking of installing it above my plasma as we get more open space for vocals, at 68 inches appx.

Surround channels - At 65 inches & appx. 9 feet apart, on rear wall not possible on side walls as bed touching rear wall.

Subwoofer - in front most likely, I will take care of back firing dual port.

IS IT CORRECT??

And last thing - Do the wall brackets supplied with MS-100 speakers have aligning adjustment with allen key so that I can tilt my littlebit high Front L,R downwards & same with center channel towards a sweet spot- in centre of the room?? Can Audyssey in 1713 & YPAO in Yamaha 373 correct it automatically with provided mic??? Thanks a lotttt as 4 questions.

Bro, just play d damn thing and enjoy d sound. D wharf u have is a basic system and all this tweaking aint gonna make too much of a difference, almost negligible.
Just keep ur center volume a couple of notches higher than the fronts and the surrounds a lil less than the fronts and ur good to go.

 

[Rupam]

Bro, just play d damn thing and enjoy d sound. D wharf u have is a basic system and all this tweaking aint gonna make too much of a difference, almost negligible.
Just keep ur center volume a couple of notches higher than the fronts and the surrounds a lil less than the fronts and ur good to go.

You don't need to spend a fortune to own a system which can be tweaked! OP is asking about improving soundstage and sweet spot of the speaker system, which can be manipulated and makes a big impression.

yes, Sukhi the speaker brackets of MS 100 have aligning adjustment with allen key, you can point them downwards, upwards, and swing according to your sitting position. Yes, I think audyssey can correct them.
keep the Front highs +1/-1 foot. The speaker is designed in a way so that you can enjoy the sweet-spot even if you keep them low.


Please post some pictures ....

 

[Sukhi Gill]

Thanks Hussain & Rupam for your individual advice. The positioning of speakers really matter & every inch is important in proper setup according to the size of speakers & room, our main purpose should be to mantain the cohesion of 5.1 sound eg. if I will install MS-100 surround satellite at 7-8 feet height, the rear effects will go out of field in our normal sitting position but same 7-8 feet height is applicable for little bit bigger Wharfedale DX-1 speakers. Its a big relief for me to know that we can tilt the wall brackets of MS-100 up & down. Thanks guys.

 

[gokul1980]

Don't ever waste your money for Bose. The Brand name commands the premium not their performance. Your wife may be pleased with it because of its aesthetic appeal but for an av enthusiast Bose is just a hype.
Wharfedale MS 100 will be better than Bose GS II Cinemate.
I would say that Wharfedale MS 100 is very good for music. The sound is balanced and sweet. With Marantz it will definitely sound musical and beautiful.
AV MAX_Wharfedale MS-100 HCP_March 2012-1.pdf

Here is a review of my speaker system by AV MAX.

So, looks like i have made up my mid to go for these speakers and the Marantz AVR. The next question is whether i can go ahead and buy it directly from HiFiMart or is there any store in Pune that you can suggest of? I am damn sure that if i buy it from a store in Pune it would be a bit costly but the guys would come and install the system at my place. Secondly, if i buy it online from HiFimart i am worried about the installation. Not that i cant do it but in case i am not able to set it up properly it might be disappointing.

Any other tips/advice you guys want to give are most welcome.

Last but not the least, heartfelt thanks to Mr. Rupam and Mr. Gill for helping me out with this. I will bug you guys again when i get the system in hand hyeah:

Best Regards,
Gokul

 

[edge111hussain]

You don't need to spend a fortune to own a system which can be tweaked! OP is asking about improving soundstage and sweet spot of the speaker system, which can be manipulated and makes a big impression.

yes, Sukhi the speaker brackets of MS 100 have aligning adjustment with allen key, you can point them downwards, upwards, and swing according to your sitting position. Yes, I think audyssey can correct them.
keep the Front highs +1/-1 foot. The speaker is designed in a way so that you can enjoy the sweet-spot even if you keep them low.


Please post some pictures ....

Point the speakers at 3/4 length of the living room, fronts and surrounds, center dead center.
Assuming its a yamaha amp, Keep fronts on +5, Center on around 7.5/8 and surrounds on 2/3. Thats it, ur good to go.
Any and all advance settings work well with systems like the def tech pro 1000, kef 3xxx, paradigm cinema 110 or systems in that league.

 

[edge111hussain]

Thanks Hussain & Rupam for your individual advice. The positioning of speakers really matter & every inch is important in proper setup according to the size of speakers & room, our main purpose should be to mantain the cohesion of 5.1 sound eg. if I will install MS-100 surround satellite at 7-8 feet height, the rear effects will go out of field in our normal sitting position but same 7-8 feet height is applicable for little bit bigger Wharfedale DX-1 speakers. Its a big relief for me to know that we can tilt the wall brackets of MS-100 up & down. Thanks guys.

Bro, my center and fronts r placed at ear level (sitting position) whilst the surrounds r placed at around 9 feet. Still i have never felt anything out of sync ever.Use the wall mounts and point the speakers in the right direction.

I know what ur saying is correct, placement is important, but the emphasis that you guys are putting on it, considering its a basic 5.1 system, is a lil too much. You rather just enjoy the sound..

I think in this same thread i read someone commenting that u should buy a denon over a yamaha cause denon has better setting capacity to position the speakers via audessey. That honestly made me go like WHATTTTT.....

 

[Sukhi Gill]

Dear Hussain, you having MS-100 with Yamaha?? You are right but its better to clear all the doubts before installing. I know one thing that for living rooms never spend more than 80,000/- on 5.1 setup unless you are building it step by step starting from 2 fronts & 5.1/7.1 AVR.

Dear Gokul, even I will order it from hifi-mart as we cannot get this price locally, I talked with some dealers here & they will install it @5,000-7,000/- or I will install it myself with the help of electricians working at my house. It's very easy if you can rule out the 5 perfect points for wall brackets, on TV table. I will advice you to get the speaker cables yourself as local installer can misguide you for few bucks. Can try DAC 18/16 gauge speaker & standard subwoofer cable from hifi-mart.

Thanks.

 

[edge111hussain]

Dear Hussain, you having MS-100 with Yamaha?? You are right but its better to clear all the doubts before installing. I know one thing that for living rooms never spend more than 80,000/- on 5.1 setup unless you are building it step by step starting from 2 fronts & 5.1/7.1 AVR.

Dear Gokul, even I will order it from hifi-mart as we cannot get this price locally, I talked with some dealers here & they will install it @5,000-7,000/- or I will install it myself with the help of electricians working at my house. It's very easy if you can rule out the 5 perfect points for wall brackets, on TV table. I will advice you to get the speaker cables yourself as local installer can misguide you for few bucks. Can try DAC 18/16 gauge speaker & standard subwoofer cable from hifi-mart.

Thanks.

Nope, i got paradigm monitors.

There is nothing like do not spend more than xyz amount. If you have the moolah, spend it on the right system cause once u buy a 5.1, generally it stays for a good 5+ yrs. The systems i mentioned, completely destroy the wharfs u considering, but then again it will seriously shoot up your budget

 

[Sukhi Gill]

Every budget system has its own capabilities, the best we can do is to extract the best from it. You are right- more sugar more sweet but take 5.1 spoons of honey... add 50W of black grape juice, get the Sony grinder = rotate it at 24 bit & wait for red to blue lit. Then the bluish tinge of Avatar will do wonders in every bungalow, house, room or PVR. Joking.. hahahahahaahaa...

 

[Rupam]

Just some more inputs: After initial burn-in (about 90 hrs), the speakers sound much better and listening to Original CDs and flacs are a pleasure.

Vocals sound more agile and lively Midrange is clear and well defined (vocals sound natural), the treble is crisp and rich in dynamics.
The best part is the bass. If set and positioned correctly the subwoofer blends in seamlessly. Its not localized. The instrument imaging are precise and deep bass makes itself felt when it's on the track but not otherwise.

I can conclude that the system is musically satisfying.

 

[piyush608]

Hi rupam
Is there any difference in sq of ms100 and 70+ speaker with same denon avr

 

[anshum_dua]

Hello Rupam, All,

Planning to buy a Denon 1513/1713 and wish to pair it with wharfedale. Have auditioned this combination at "The Shop"earlier and this suits my ears best , though it was a diamond 10.5 which I auditioned.. No longer have that sort of budget, hence looking for suggestions.

Denon AVR is confirmed, will decide on 1513 or 1713 once speakers are finalized to ensure overall budget remains around 50k. Don't mind spending 10k extra if there is a significant advantage, but nothing beyond 60k.

Am confused between wharfedale Moviestart ms100 as suggested by Rupam or going in for diamond series only (step upgrades). I can settle for a 10.1 pair now if that works well to start with 1713.

Alternatively, I could also settle with 1513, diamond 10.1 and a 9.0CS if this is a good combination to last for a year.

Do I get a significant advantage to go for separate speakers and not a 5.1 package? If yes, I will settle for front/front+center now and later buy diamond 10.6 as front speakers and use 10.1 as surrounds.

Need suggestions to choose from below options:

1. Denon 1513/1713 with moviestar ms100.
2. Denon 1513/1713 with Diamond 10.1.
3. Denon 1513/1713 with Diamond 10.1 +9.1cs

Thanks.. anshum

 

[umapati]

Hello Rupam, All,

Planning to buy a Denon 1513/1713 and wish to pair it with wharfedale. Have auditioned this combination at "The Shop"earlier and this suits my ears best , though it was a diamond 10.5 which I auditioned.. No longer have that sort of budget, hence looking for suggestions.

Denon AVR is confirmed, will decide on 1513 or 1713 once speakers are finalized to ensure overall budget remains around 50k. Don't mind spending 10k extra if there is a significant advantage, but nothing beyond 60k.

Am confused between wharfedale Moviestart ms100 as suggested by Rupam or going in for diamond series only (step upgrades). I can settle for a 10.1 pair now if that works well to start with 1713.

Alternatively, I could also settle with 1513, diamond 10.1 and a 9.0CS if this is a good combination to last for a year.

Do I get a significant advantage to go for separate speakers and not a 5.1 package? If yes, I will settle for front/front+center now and later buy diamond 10.6 as front speakers and use 10.1 as surrounds.

Need suggestions to choose from below options:

1. Denon 1513/1713 with moviestar ms100.
2. Denon 1513/1713 with Diamond 10.1.
3. Denon 1513/1713 with Diamond 10.1 +9.1cs

Thanks.. anshum

I would rather suggest you to stick to Denon 1713 only..It has lot of advantages than 1513.. and Speakers you can choose as per your budget..you can go with Diamond 10.1 and upgrade later..