Do you have the money that it takes to be an audiophile?

[suri]

Very well put, Dinyaar.

On the subject in question, I think it is very hard for people to be 'audiophiles' in the truest sense (whatever that may mean) in India.

You want to critically listen to music? No ceiling fans mate! That is anathema. What do you need? An air conditioner. No, a window air conditioner will not do. It puts out a lot of noise. So, yes, a Split Air Conditioner is called for. Now when you are done spending for that in addition to your Hi fi gear, you might have to worry about whether your room is constructed keeping in mind the bass nodes and all that? But of course it is not.

My point is - anybody can be an audiophile as long it is clear that listening to reproduced music is all about compromises. As long as one has an active imagination, one can match what we are hearing with live concerts or whatever it is we want to compare it to. The moment this imagination goes, we are stuck in a rut. And our mind figures it is time for an upgrade.

Just my 2 rupees.

yes thevortex! - that is so true!

in the room where i listen to speakers, i put the ceiling fans off (there are three of them) and listen. At night, i start sweating (coastal climate) and mosquitoes start their blood sucking, but i listen.
and i have found that the best time of the day is at about 12 in the afternoon - the traffic is less, the dogs are sleeping, no mosquitoes and the cross ventilation is enough to keep the air circulating - so, i rush home at about 11.45 and listen for about a half-hour, and go back to work.

 

[dinyaar]

Very well put, Dinyaar.

On the subject in question, I think it is very hard for people to be 'audiophiles' in the truest sense (whatever that may mean) in India.

You want to critically listen to music? No ceiling fans mate! That is anathema. What do you need? An air conditioner. No, a window air conditioner will not do. It puts out a lot of noise. So, yes, a Split Air Conditioner is called for. Now when you are done spending for that in addition to your Hi fi gear, you might have to worry about whether your room is constructed keeping in mind the bass nodes and all that? But of course it is not.

My point is - anybody can be an audiophile as long it is clear that listening to reproduced music is all about compromises. As long as one has an active imagination, one can match what we are hearing with live concerts or whatever it is we want to compare it to. The moment this imagination goes, we are stuck in a rut. And our mind figures it is time for an upgrade.

Just my 2 rupees.

Very true.
One has to 'expect' reasonably. 'Live' kind of sound is not easy to get for sure, too many issues to resolve. Have heard the so called live sounding speakers and that too is a compromise. Something maybe gained & something surely lost.
My biggest problem is my small room. So i am (in Jan) re arranging my entire apartment. My set up will then be in a much bigger room and that should be the ultimate upgrade. I have had a trailer of this a few months ago and it seems worth every penny.
I live close to the sea and have superb cross ventilation so can get away without a fan occasionally(not in summer though) but frankly a fan at a low speed does not bother me and i never felt the need to install an AC in this room. As the BIG B says ' i'm doing my bit':yahoo: and conserving some energy!
Rgds

 

[vivekam]

Hey guys,

I am still 25 . Am I the youngest audiophile, just kidding.

 

[suri]

Hey guys,

I am still 25 . Am I the youngest audiophile, just kidding.

hi vivekam,

really, it depends on how much you have in the bank - there are, perhaps, 16 year old audiophiles! - though, (and this is but a thought), if they are audiophiling at 16, there must be something wrong with the hormones

cheers

 

[thevortex]

With Dynaudio, anything below the contour series is not resolving enough. Even with the contour, you need a very good amplifier to make it sound good.
Quality power and lots of it. Otherwise the dyns will sound constipated.

I have seen this not to be the case, square_wave. Of course I dont know how good they can get when better amplification is thrown at them. But they definitely dont sound constipated with a variety of amplification equipment including NAD, Marantz and Primare.

Also the Dynaudio Audience 52 is a lovely speaker. Certainly not comparable to Contour, but not a bad speaker by any stretch of imagination.

 

[thevortex]

yes thevortex! - that is so true!

in the room where i listen to speakers, i put the ceiling fans off (there are three of them) and listen. At night, i start sweating (coastal climate) and mosquitoes start their blood sucking, but i listen.
and i have found that the best time of the day is at about 12 in the afternoon - the traffic is less, the dogs are sleeping, no mosquitoes and the cross ventilation is enough to keep the air circulating - so, i rush home at about 11.45 and listen for about a half-hour, and go back to work.

Is this actually true, Suri?

If so, that is a lovely job that you have got.

Very true.
One has to 'expect' reasonably. 'Live' kind of sound is not easy to get for sure, too many issues to resolve. Have heard the so called live sounding speakers and that too is a compromise. Something maybe gained & something surely lost.
My biggest problem is my small room. So i am (in Jan) re arranging my entire apartment. My set up will then be in a much bigger room and that should be the ultimate upgrade. I have had a trailer of this a few months ago and it seems worth every penny.
I live close to the sea and have superb cross ventilation so can get away without a fan occasionally(not in summer though) but frankly a fan at a low speed does not bother me and i never felt the need to install an AC in this room. As the BIG B says ' i'm doing my bit':yahoo: and conserving some energy!
Rgds

Ah - living close to the sea is in itself a musical experience. My wife and I once lived in a beach house for the best part of a year. We felt that the sea had its own 'shruti'. The ebb and flow of the tide acted somewhat like the Tampura or 'drone instrument' used in classical music concerts.

hi vivekam,

really, it depends on how much you have in the bank - there are, perhaps, 16 year old audiophiles! - though, (and this is but a thought), if they are audiophiling at 16, there must be something wrong with the hormones

cheers

Absolutely true. 16 and audiophilia just dont mix Too much going on in life to check for adequacy or warmth of bass or airiness of treble and so on.

 

[murali]

It is overwhelming to see such a massive participation in this discussion.
When someone remarks about having to switch off celing fans and sweating it out to enjoy music, the basic truth emerges here itself. Believe me, with a decent system, the soundstage or other attributes of the music never are affected, as long as your fans don't add noises. (In fact I run two fans, one above the equipment and the other in the listening position.) I have seen this simple exercise being done by the so-called expert dealers in many places and laugh inside.
If such discussions can lead to at least a handful of people take things more seriously and start planning down the line, I will feel a job well done. First, one has to get out of the mass market mentality which is really killing the enjoyment of music. Look at the CDs they sell in Music World and other places, I mean their quality. I own CDs of Indian music bought > 15 years ago from USA (made in Canada) which still serve me well. A modern CD bought for Rs 50-100 in our place does not last more than a few months, either scratches or fungi or patches or what not. I am not saying CDs should cost more for better quality. Has anyone any idea how much margin is there in these stuffs? Japanese took on the American car makers not by making costlier cars but by higher quality cheaper cars. So if someone cares about such quality, we all can listen to music with better quality sources without bleeding through the nose. The point is who cares about quality of those shiny aluminium discs? Who cares about the recording? Look at those Rs50 Mauser Baier DVDs which they still dare to call "Doly Digital", "DTS", etc. Just because all sounds come from all over the place, does this mean the recording is truly 5.1? The same applies to several theatres I have seen where often you are bombarded with sound from everywhere. On the other hand, play a 5.1 movie from a $15 disc from outside or visit a theatre to watch a movie. You come out a much happier person with the eardrums intact. If a family of 4 go for a movie, I believe it will cost around Rs 200 and therefore, we try to convince ourselves the greatness of such mass market products unwilling to admit the fallacies. False prestige? Ego? Afraid to face the truth? That is us.
Hope we will change some time and learn to respect and appreciate those musicians and sound technicians who put so much efforts to produce MUSIC with the false hope that we people are going to listen as such. Do we?

thanks for the patience. happy listening.

murali

 

[thevortex]

Murali - believe me when I say that fans and critical listening do not go hand in hand.

When people are bothering about the speed and noise of the fan inside their CPU, the amount of noise that a single ceiling fan generates, leave alone two, cannot be ignored.

But then this is all subjective.

 

[suri]

Murali - believe me when I say that fans and critical listening do not go hand in hand.

When people are bothering about the speed and noise of the fan inside their CPU, the amount of noise that a single ceiling fan generates, leave alone two, cannot be ignored.

But then this is all subjective.

it makes a huge difference !

it is like this - if i am listening to music, and also working on the laptop (for Hifivision) then the fan is on.

but, if i am listening to nusrath fateh ali khan, especially the 2nd track on "NIGHT SONG", the fans go off!

@ murali - those high end dealers know what they are doing!

 

[suri]

Believe me, with a decent system, the soundstage or other attributes of the music never are affected, as long as your fans don't add noises. (In fact I run two fans, one above the equipment and the other in the listening position.) murali

hi murali,

it is not that the fans add noise, but the positive pressure created by the fan's kinetics can impede the free movement of the cones of the transducers (they are that sensitive!) - really! that is real

 

[sachin_k5]

hi murali,

it is not that the fans add noise, but the positive pressure created by the fan's kinetics can impede the free movement of the cones of the transducers (they are that sensitive!) - really! that is real

Even with the grill ? This is new to me.

And yes about the mass market. India still has majority of its people far away from quality audio equipment (low income being the main reason). This section want's fast and cheap entertainment. So hindi "dhik chik" makes more money compared to classical. Thats why Mtv moved to filmi and crap hindi music because there was a bigger audience for it.

 

[suri]

Even with the grill ? This is new to me.

Hi sachin_k5,

yes, even with the grill, and what you say about mass market is very true.

regards

 

[thevortex]

hi murali,

it is not that the fans add noise, but the positive pressure created by the fan's kinetics can impede the free movement of the cones of the transducers (they are that sensitive!) - really! that is real

Some fancy mumbo-jumbo you got there!

 

[suri]

Some fancy mumbo-jumbo you got there!

hehehe:lol:

 

[shaizada]

In my mind, there are audiophiles and music lovers.

An audiophile is basically a person who pursues the best possible reproduction of music through various electronics and techniques.

A music lover is a person who just simply loves music.

Now an Audiophile can very well be a music lover. The same way, a music lover can seek audiophile-dom But they don't necessarily equate to one another. I started out as a music lover and STILL consider myself a music lover first. However, as I heard and learnt better ways of reproducing music, my wallet became lighter and my appreciation of subtle musical nuances in recordings I knew very well grew wider. I still don't consider myself an Audiophile in the true sense, but there is definitely a piece of that that comes with knowledge about trying to accurately reproduce music.

At this point, I'm in a very satisfying space with regards to what the current system can do. My advice is to hang in there. Whatever time it takes to get there...all that matters is getting there.

Even people with the financial resources can't achieve sonic nirvana if they don't know where to look or worse... don't even know what they're looking for. That comes with the pains of going on the journey. Nobody can really take that journey but you yourself. What is beautiful to one ear might be wretched to another. It would be good to find out for yourself slowly and steadily.

 

[dinyaar]

hi murali,

it is not that the fans add noise, but the positive pressure created by the fan's kinetics can impede the free movement of the cones of the transducers (they are that sensitive!) - really! that is real

YES i so absolutely believe u Suri
I can imagine u listening to a beautiful set up in scorching heat without an AC or a fan!!! Point is can one appreciate that great set up when one is not comfortable? I cant and I hence conclude that i am no audiophile!
Phew feel better without the added 'tag' already.
Rgds

 

[vivekam]

hi vivekam,

really, it depends on how much you have in the bank - there are, perhaps, 16 year old audiophiles! - though, (and this is but a thought), if they are audiophiling at 16, there must be something wrong with the hormones

cheers

Very True Suri.
I would prefer term music lover rather than audiophile.

 

[murali]

Audiophile vs music lover...
Let us for a moment imagine that this is a "masala dosa" forum where all of us like to eat it. You can eat one from a 5-star hotel paying Rs300, or a mobile catering unit paying Rs5, or a decent middle class Udupi restaurant paying around Rs25, or make one at home. They are all dosas, taste similar. Right? It is not that the 5-star hotel uses ingredients 10 times costlier than the others, or the mobile unit using sand instead of rice. Quality of ingredients, utensils etc matters and of course, the cook's skills too. We look at several aspects like these plus hygiene, service etc. The fundamental truth is that all love eating the dosas, not that only the mobile or Udupi or DIY guy likes it. As far as taste and safety are concerned, I believe the bulk would prefer the Udupi style middle class and some DIY as long as the wife/mother are willing. Last but not the least, even if one of the ingredients of the dosa itself or the chutney and sambar is spoilt, then the whole system goes.

The point is that certain minimum standards are mandatory as far as enjoying good sound and music are concerned. I also started long back during the extinct days of valve radios trying to capture AM stations. But science and technology have progressed, we have better choices available and it is a matter of one's affordability. A true lover of music seeking in that direction will always plan to acquire better sounding equipment. It is unfortunate that some try to draw a distinguishing line between audiophiles and music lovers, rich vs poor, India vs rest of the world etc. Music is universal, economics is turning global, trade barriers are falling, so there are opportunities provided one is willing to look for and plan.

I will call it ignorance and stupidity if someone says audiophiles are not music lovers.

About thirty years back, when practically every Gulf Indian used to come back with a 2-in-1 tape deck of Sony, Sharp, National etc, I once happened to listen in a friend's house a separates systen of Sonodyne which sounded way way beyond these mass market stuffs and probably initiated my quest. Noone stopped Sonodyne from going global like none blocking Hindustan Motors and Premier Automobiles from investing money in R&D and becoming a world player in automobile market. Let us face the truth. The founder of the #1 company in India had famously announced why he chose polyester as his core business: a billion people are my market and I can never go wrong there.

Ours is a world of numbers, the more the better.

Happy listening.

murali

 

[thevortex]

Murali - no need to get excited. Let opinions be opinions. There is no need to call names on people who wish to believe certain things.

Not all audiophiles manage to enjoy music irrespective of system. I have seen some getting caught up with equipment more than music. And that probably was what some members might be referring to.

And regarding India not being a favourable country for audiophiles, try sourcing out a quailty speaker of your choice and find out the Indian price versus the price elsewhere. That should give you an idea.

 

[sachin_k5]

Murali,

Nowdays i see a lot of people buying expensive electronic goods because of the 'status' tag it comes along. People buy high end cell phones with no idea how to use its features, high powered bmw's audi's when in a city like Bombay you can only do 40kmph, Large size tv's just to match what the neighbour has bought. (I mean a lot not everyone so this forum folks can spare me)

I feel audio systems have not entered this race yet and are still safe. But i am not sure till when. Maybe in the future, people may buy expensive audio equipment just to show off but they will not listen to anything other than hindi film music.