mayanks_098
Member
Disclaimer: Yeah yeah, we all love Flipkart. I do to (seriously) We love how it has changed the Indian eCommerce scene. I am not a Flipkart hater, infact I (used to?) love them. Have bought variety of products from them in the past, and may hopefully continue to do so in the future, provided I get a reasonable solution to this mess. As a customer I dont want to lose Flipkart. I have been equivocal in their support when I find my countrymen in a dilemma whether to purchase a product online or not. But I dont want or cant accept them going down the same path as the other online companies.
My grievance is not about money here (not a huge amount is involved in this case), but about shady and improper business practices. It is about the wrong business values and their malpractices.
So here is the thing:
I bought "Lost: The Complete Collection" (link) last month on May 10 as I felt tempted by that 50% discount they were giving. I superficially scanned their description area to look for the keywords region encoding but dint find it and I (IMO justifiably) assumed it was for Indian region. They have it listed under Video Encoding: NTSC 1,3,4,5 & PAL 2,4,5". I am not sure if thats the correct way to describe/ report region codes. Region and video encoding are differ It was too tempting for me to resist given that it was one of my most beloved TV series. Thanks to their wonderful service and shipping I got it within 2-3 days I guess.
The pack has 24 DVDs. Now in full excitement I inserted the disc in my Indian PS3, and alas, it didn't play. It gave me a region code error, something like "This is incompatible with your region". I tried another and got the same error. I tried a couple more discs and got the same error. Needless to mention, it plays the Indian region DVDs and Indian and region free blu-rays fine, without any issue, including the ones bought from Flipkart. They all play fine. I even bought DVDs from Flipkart after this fiasco and they work fine as well.Now this isn't the first time I have had a negative experience. Sometime back I ordered 2 DVDs of "The It Crowd" Season 1 and Season 2. Season 1 DVD played fine but Season 2 DVDs just dint play. They shipped me 2 replacements and they dint work at all. It was clear that the problem was with the whole lot of season 2 DVDs. I urged them to contact the vendor (Eagle Home Entertainment) stop selling it and looting customers for a defective product but they dint stop. How this was resolved was a tweet of mine on this issue was caught by a senior manager at Eagle Home Entertainment and he contacted me. He contacted me and apologized for the inconvenience and we worked towards a solution. They got my respect for going out of the way in order to satisfy a customer.
Coming to the present case, I contacted Flipkart with the problem. Their rep (Jayawant) told me that they only sell genuine and tested product on their website. I said I never questioned whether the product was genuine or not. We buy from Flipkart because they are trusted and offer brand new good products. I requested them to test it themselves at their side to which they said it cannot be done since they do not have any provision of testing in their facilities. They also said (I think by mistake) that they DO NOT test or make sure that the product matches the description provided by the manufacturer and that they just take the word of the vendor as final on the product description.
They then suggested me to try it with some other player etc etc. Obviously, problem was not solved. They said they can offer me a replacement. I said it is pointless because the disc is not defective in the sense that it cannot be played, rather it is wrongly region encoded. After a series of worthless mail and phone discussions, they said they will contact the vendor and get back to me. They offered me a refund to which I refused as I got lured into the offer as I was getting a great discount at one of my favorite TV shows, LOST. I said I am ready to wait for 1 month or two months or whatever it takes to get the correct product, but I do not want a refund.
After sometime they tell me (on Phone) that they have received an E-mail confirmation from Disney that it is compatible with Indian region players. I am sure Disney didnt check it at their end as well and just went by their existing description that it is the correct region coded product.I invited them to come over to my home to check the error themselves with my Indian PS3. They said no (fine with me). I asked them a working proof that it is the correct region product (like a image of it playing on any Indian region player/ PS3/ Xbox. All they gave me that they have received a reply from Disney that it works. They just took their (Disneys) word for it arguing that when a trusted vendor says something, they believe it to be true. They also accepted they have no internal testing for products, before they go on sale. They just take the manufacturer/ vendors word for it, especially if it is a trusted (big) manufacturer.
Seeing it go no where, I requested Jaywant to give me contact details of a manager with their sales department, so that I can bring it to their notice that they are selling a wrong product. Jaywant declined to my request saying they don't have official email addresses or phone numbers in Flipkart and hence he could not provide me the same. The best he could do it arrange for a phone call or email reply from their team lead (Sajida) in CS department, using their same generic customer service email id. So I could only talk to these two people.
They kept going back and forth on how many purchased it and how many got the same error as me. First they said about no one else reported this problem. After sometime their team lead in CS department told me that one guy told me that there has been one feedback of region code error. They contacted that person again and gave me an advice from him that playing (a replacement was provided to him) on "PC" solves the issue. :-\ I have a Home theater setup costing close to 1 lac (LED+ PS3+ HTiB). I didnt buy DVD to play it on PC! Thats an insane suggestion.
They even suggested contacting the vendor from my side. I did even that. Surprisingly, Disneys customer care was even worse than Flipkart. They only gave me a call once and never called back to inform the result of their tests, instead just giving an e-mail reply that it is the correct product and there is nothing they can do. They advised me to contact Flipkart for further assistance? Excuse me? It is as much a fault of Disney as it is of Flipkart. Flipkart is merely selling Disneys product. The responsibility lies with Disney equally, if not more, as compared to Flipkart. I really really didnt expect such customer service from a company of Disneys repute.
Review deletion:
In the meanwhile, I posted a review on the product page which went something like this (dont have the exact wordings as I dont have an exact copy and I didnt expected them to delete my review):
Do not buy this product. This is an incorrectly region encoded product and does not play on Indian region players.Flipkart did not think it was in accordance to their review policy (The Flipkart Review Moderation Process | Flipkart Blog) and DELETED my review! They said that their review section is not a comment section and my comment was not a fair one to future customers as it was just one case and not representative of all those who bought it. I tweeted about this and it created some noise. They promised me on twitter they will review on review. Later they told me that it does not fulfill their review criteria and that deletion stands. How many times do we see reviews of Flipkarts service like fast shipping, great service, Flipkart is the best etc etc etc on the reviews section? They are fine with those reviews, but when there is a negative non-service product review representing a case where the product is not playable with X player, they deem it as unfit. What a great way to encourage fair reviews. Makes me realize why I never see any negative reviews on the site. Most (and I really mean most) of the reviews are OVERLY positive.
Even if it was one isolated case, I am entitled to write and share my experience with future buyers who can/ will be able to reproduce the problem if they were using the exact same setup, preventing them from buying it in first place. Thats how reviews work!I pointed them to flipkart is great reviews, which they ignored. I gave them the existing review on the same product page about the product Lost. Here it goes:
Tell me how is a legit review? This is purely a review of Lost as a TV series. Flipkart is not IMDB or RottenTomatoes! If I wanted to review Lost, I would go to these sites. Yet, this still is visible on their website as it, somehow, satisfies their review policy.Their twitter personnel contested that if product was the DVD most reviews be like superb DVD, great packaging, shiny. I have to say, that is exactly what the product reviews are! We are reviewing the DVD, the product, not the content it holds. For reviewing movies/ tv we have niche websites.
Now back to the issue:
Once, their twitter support guy told me that 129 people bought this without any complaint, which shows they are hiding things as different people are saying different things. When I confronted them that their team leader in customer care department himself told me on phone that their has been atleast one feedback with same complaint, they had no acceptable answer. They even gave me a proof that it is the correct description product. You know what the proof was? Image of the back side of the pack cover with the compatible DVD region codes highlighted.
Excuse me? Do you understand what a wrong product description is?
Ill show you what a proof is:
Attached here is a screenshots of DVD content information for a season 1 disc from 1st set I received, with details about the region coding of the DVD content. I have highlighted the region code area for easy look-up. The software I used is: DVDInforPro.
Few days back Jayawant told me that more than 200 bought it without a single complaint, I told him I have written (via twitter DM) information that about 120 bought him and do they just make numbers up, he had no answer.
Where things stand as per our last telephonic conversation (last Friday): They say they arent denying that I am facing the issue, but they reject that they are selling a wrong region encoded product and they reject my proposal/ suggestion to stop selling it. The product is now Not in stock. It continued to sell for a long time since I registered this complaint, and I am assuming they sold it till their stocks were exhausted? I also asked him to give me a final reply in writing stating their side that the product is correct and they will continue to sell it. Which they havent till now. I think he forgot.
As for why there has been only one complaint, I dont know. I dont care how many else bought the product. They may be playing it on an appropriate region coded player or on a PC. What I do know is, it does not play on my Indian region players.
Going back on forth for a long time, I told them on twitter I really want a solution to this, and that I am not hell bent on proving them wrong but making them realize a fault in their business model. They said they have tried their best and advised me to try a replacement just once, failing which they would seriously take this up with the vendor, i.e. Disney. I wanted to give them all the chances to correct their wrong before going full public. I was not accepting this idea up until now, but just to honor their suggestion and to rule out any mistake on my side, for what it was worth, I accepted it. I was writing this blog post at that time, and I postponed it till I test the replacement. As expected it showed the same error. I also gave both the collections set copies to my brother-in-law to try on his Indian Xbox. He also reported the same error.
Based on my 2 experiences, Flipkart is great, till you run into a problem which can be corrected by a replacement. All they can do is replacing and refunding. While this is fine, this does not mean they can sell wrong products on their website. They do not have any testing mechanism to ensure correct functioning of the products, nor do they listen to customers when they inform them about such cases.
Now I want your advice/ suggestion on the following questions:
TL;DR: Flipkart is selling an incorrect region encoded product (tested two copies of the set) at 50% price and refusing to accept that product has wrong description and refusing to stop selling it. Have tried it on Indian region PS3 and Xbox 360, both of which are able to play ALL other Indian DVDs and Indian and region free blu-rays (in case ofPS3), just fine. They are offering me a refund, which I am ready to take, provided they accept that they were selling a wrong product and they wont sell it further and both Flipkart and Disney offer an apology.
I have waited for a long time, 40 days so far, in hope of a solution. I have been continuously harassed by both sides. There were times when I used to get 2-3 calls from their delivery department or CS department and asking for delivery of replacement or about the issue. I had to explain to them every time what the issue was. And to top it, all they offer is refund. That, in my opinion, is not an acceptable solution in this case. They should really acknowledge their mistake.
P.S. My apologies for any grammatical/ spelling mistakes. Wrote most of this using Swype as my PC yet is not working. And I cannot wait any longer as it will dilute the issue and also, reverse shipping date is today.
P.S.2: I may have missed some information as it is a long post. Ill add more if and when I remember anything else.
I have blogged it here: Flipkarts shady business practices.*|*BT-G.com: The Everything Blog
My grievance is not about money here (not a huge amount is involved in this case), but about shady and improper business practices. It is about the wrong business values and their malpractices.
So here is the thing:
I bought "Lost: The Complete Collection" (link) last month on May 10 as I felt tempted by that 50% discount they were giving. I superficially scanned their description area to look for the keywords region encoding but dint find it and I (IMO justifiably) assumed it was for Indian region. They have it listed under Video Encoding: NTSC 1,3,4,5 & PAL 2,4,5". I am not sure if thats the correct way to describe/ report region codes. Region and video encoding are differ It was too tempting for me to resist given that it was one of my most beloved TV series. Thanks to their wonderful service and shipping I got it within 2-3 days I guess.
The pack has 24 DVDs. Now in full excitement I inserted the disc in my Indian PS3, and alas, it didn't play. It gave me a region code error, something like "This is incompatible with your region". I tried another and got the same error. I tried a couple more discs and got the same error. Needless to mention, it plays the Indian region DVDs and Indian and region free blu-rays fine, without any issue, including the ones bought from Flipkart. They all play fine. I even bought DVDs from Flipkart after this fiasco and they work fine as well.Now this isn't the first time I have had a negative experience. Sometime back I ordered 2 DVDs of "The It Crowd" Season 1 and Season 2. Season 1 DVD played fine but Season 2 DVDs just dint play. They shipped me 2 replacements and they dint work at all. It was clear that the problem was with the whole lot of season 2 DVDs. I urged them to contact the vendor (Eagle Home Entertainment) stop selling it and looting customers for a defective product but they dint stop. How this was resolved was a tweet of mine on this issue was caught by a senior manager at Eagle Home Entertainment and he contacted me. He contacted me and apologized for the inconvenience and we worked towards a solution. They got my respect for going out of the way in order to satisfy a customer.
Coming to the present case, I contacted Flipkart with the problem. Their rep (Jayawant) told me that they only sell genuine and tested product on their website. I said I never questioned whether the product was genuine or not. We buy from Flipkart because they are trusted and offer brand new good products. I requested them to test it themselves at their side to which they said it cannot be done since they do not have any provision of testing in their facilities. They also said (I think by mistake) that they DO NOT test or make sure that the product matches the description provided by the manufacturer and that they just take the word of the vendor as final on the product description.
They then suggested me to try it with some other player etc etc. Obviously, problem was not solved. They said they can offer me a replacement. I said it is pointless because the disc is not defective in the sense that it cannot be played, rather it is wrongly region encoded. After a series of worthless mail and phone discussions, they said they will contact the vendor and get back to me. They offered me a refund to which I refused as I got lured into the offer as I was getting a great discount at one of my favorite TV shows, LOST. I said I am ready to wait for 1 month or two months or whatever it takes to get the correct product, but I do not want a refund.
After sometime they tell me (on Phone) that they have received an E-mail confirmation from Disney that it is compatible with Indian region players. I am sure Disney didnt check it at their end as well and just went by their existing description that it is the correct region coded product.I invited them to come over to my home to check the error themselves with my Indian PS3. They said no (fine with me). I asked them a working proof that it is the correct region product (like a image of it playing on any Indian region player/ PS3/ Xbox. All they gave me that they have received a reply from Disney that it works. They just took their (Disneys) word for it arguing that when a trusted vendor says something, they believe it to be true. They also accepted they have no internal testing for products, before they go on sale. They just take the manufacturer/ vendors word for it, especially if it is a trusted (big) manufacturer.
Seeing it go no where, I requested Jaywant to give me contact details of a manager with their sales department, so that I can bring it to their notice that they are selling a wrong product. Jaywant declined to my request saying they don't have official email addresses or phone numbers in Flipkart and hence he could not provide me the same. The best he could do it arrange for a phone call or email reply from their team lead (Sajida) in CS department, using their same generic customer service email id. So I could only talk to these two people.
They kept going back and forth on how many purchased it and how many got the same error as me. First they said about no one else reported this problem. After sometime their team lead in CS department told me that one guy told me that there has been one feedback of region code error. They contacted that person again and gave me an advice from him that playing (a replacement was provided to him) on "PC" solves the issue. :-\ I have a Home theater setup costing close to 1 lac (LED+ PS3+ HTiB). I didnt buy DVD to play it on PC! Thats an insane suggestion.
They even suggested contacting the vendor from my side. I did even that. Surprisingly, Disneys customer care was even worse than Flipkart. They only gave me a call once and never called back to inform the result of their tests, instead just giving an e-mail reply that it is the correct product and there is nothing they can do. They advised me to contact Flipkart for further assistance? Excuse me? It is as much a fault of Disney as it is of Flipkart. Flipkart is merely selling Disneys product. The responsibility lies with Disney equally, if not more, as compared to Flipkart. I really really didnt expect such customer service from a company of Disneys repute.
Review deletion:
In the meanwhile, I posted a review on the product page which went something like this (dont have the exact wordings as I dont have an exact copy and I didnt expected them to delete my review):
Do not buy this product. This is an incorrectly region encoded product and does not play on Indian region players.Flipkart did not think it was in accordance to their review policy (The Flipkart Review Moderation Process | Flipkart Blog) and DELETED my review! They said that their review section is not a comment section and my comment was not a fair one to future customers as it was just one case and not representative of all those who bought it. I tweeted about this and it created some noise. They promised me on twitter they will review on review. Later they told me that it does not fulfill their review criteria and that deletion stands. How many times do we see reviews of Flipkarts service like fast shipping, great service, Flipkart is the best etc etc etc on the reviews section? They are fine with those reviews, but when there is a negative non-service product review representing a case where the product is not playable with X player, they deem it as unfit. What a great way to encourage fair reviews. Makes me realize why I never see any negative reviews on the site. Most (and I really mean most) of the reviews are OVERLY positive.
Even if it was one isolated case, I am entitled to write and share my experience with future buyers who can/ will be able to reproduce the problem if they were using the exact same setup, preventing them from buying it in first place. Thats how reviews work!I pointed them to flipkart is great reviews, which they ignored. I gave them the existing review on the same product page about the product Lost. Here it goes:
Tell me how is a legit review? This is purely a review of Lost as a TV series. Flipkart is not IMDB or RottenTomatoes! If I wanted to review Lost, I would go to these sites. Yet, this still is visible on their website as it, somehow, satisfies their review policy.Their twitter personnel contested that if product was the DVD most reviews be like superb DVD, great packaging, shiny. I have to say, that is exactly what the product reviews are! We are reviewing the DVD, the product, not the content it holds. For reviewing movies/ tv we have niche websites.
Now back to the issue:
Once, their twitter support guy told me that 129 people bought this without any complaint, which shows they are hiding things as different people are saying different things. When I confronted them that their team leader in customer care department himself told me on phone that their has been atleast one feedback with same complaint, they had no acceptable answer. They even gave me a proof that it is the correct description product. You know what the proof was? Image of the back side of the pack cover with the compatible DVD region codes highlighted.
Excuse me? Do you understand what a wrong product description is?
Ill show you what a proof is:
Attached here is a screenshots of DVD content information for a season 1 disc from 1st set I received, with details about the region coding of the DVD content. I have highlighted the region code area for easy look-up. The software I used is: DVDInforPro.
Few days back Jayawant told me that more than 200 bought it without a single complaint, I told him I have written (via twitter DM) information that about 120 bought him and do they just make numbers up, he had no answer.
Where things stand as per our last telephonic conversation (last Friday): They say they arent denying that I am facing the issue, but they reject that they are selling a wrong region encoded product and they reject my proposal/ suggestion to stop selling it. The product is now Not in stock. It continued to sell for a long time since I registered this complaint, and I am assuming they sold it till their stocks were exhausted? I also asked him to give me a final reply in writing stating their side that the product is correct and they will continue to sell it. Which they havent till now. I think he forgot.
As for why there has been only one complaint, I dont know. I dont care how many else bought the product. They may be playing it on an appropriate region coded player or on a PC. What I do know is, it does not play on my Indian region players.
Going back on forth for a long time, I told them on twitter I really want a solution to this, and that I am not hell bent on proving them wrong but making them realize a fault in their business model. They said they have tried their best and advised me to try a replacement just once, failing which they would seriously take this up with the vendor, i.e. Disney. I wanted to give them all the chances to correct their wrong before going full public. I was not accepting this idea up until now, but just to honor their suggestion and to rule out any mistake on my side, for what it was worth, I accepted it. I was writing this blog post at that time, and I postponed it till I test the replacement. As expected it showed the same error. I also gave both the collections set copies to my brother-in-law to try on his Indian Xbox. He also reported the same error.
Based on my 2 experiences, Flipkart is great, till you run into a problem which can be corrected by a replacement. All they can do is replacing and refunding. While this is fine, this does not mean they can sell wrong products on their website. They do not have any testing mechanism to ensure correct functioning of the products, nor do they listen to customers when they inform them about such cases.
Now I want your advice/ suggestion on the following questions:
- Did anyone here purchase Lost: The Complete Collection from Flipkart? Or do you know anyone who bought one? If yes, were you able to play it? If yes, on what player? Please give proper details like model number, purchase place etc. If no, please contact me via contact form/ PM. ou can also reach me (@knayam) on twitter using this hashtag: #FlipkartLost.
- Flipkart guy is asking me to ship the replacement back. At first I bought time so that I can get suggestions here and then decide whether to go ahead or not (as this replacement is evidence). But due to my PCs UPS gone bad, I was not able to write this and hence I have no time. The guy will come to collect the DVD set Wednesday i.e. 20 June. Should I return it? I can consider paying for this second copy and keeping it (as evidence) if thats worth it.
- Why did they only have this item on sale? I mean LOST is still a new series with a huge (cult?) following. What is the need of giving huge discount? Is it only to lure customers to buy wrong DVDs? Why is there no such discount on other DVD sets? There are other DVD sets about as old as LOST, Prison Break for example. I may be sounding like a conspiracy theorist, but after my experience, I am forced to look at it this way.
- What are my options here? I really hoped (and I do still) that things work out. But looks like they aren't going to be. Flipkart is not agreeing to stop selling it or even correcting the product description. I do not want to just let this go. Else I would not be able to, in my right mind, buy stuff with confidence on Flipkart. What more should I try to make sure it is not Indian region compatible. I havent tried every single DVD as of yet. Its a tedious task. 24*2=48 discs. But Ill do it If it makes sense. I think I have done enough but I want to be sure I didnt miss any chance because I dont really want to go to the mess that is point #4 below.
- Is a legal action, a consumer court complaint, viable? If so, what should I know about the process? Like cost and time involved. What is the process? I dont really want to get into this as I hardly have enough time left after my work and family. I want to get a solution that does not involve a legal action. But also, I dont want to ignore this. I will do it if I have to, provided it does not cost me a bomb (which probably it wont be as I read somewhere that consumer complaints have become easier).
TL;DR: Flipkart is selling an incorrect region encoded product (tested two copies of the set) at 50% price and refusing to accept that product has wrong description and refusing to stop selling it. Have tried it on Indian region PS3 and Xbox 360, both of which are able to play ALL other Indian DVDs and Indian and region free blu-rays (in case ofPS3), just fine. They are offering me a refund, which I am ready to take, provided they accept that they were selling a wrong product and they wont sell it further and both Flipkart and Disney offer an apology.
I have waited for a long time, 40 days so far, in hope of a solution. I have been continuously harassed by both sides. There were times when I used to get 2-3 calls from their delivery department or CS department and asking for delivery of replacement or about the issue. I had to explain to them every time what the issue was. And to top it, all they offer is refund. That, in my opinion, is not an acceptable solution in this case. They should really acknowledge their mistake.
P.S. My apologies for any grammatical/ spelling mistakes. Wrote most of this using Swype as my PC yet is not working. And I cannot wait any longer as it will dilute the issue and also, reverse shipping date is today.
P.S.2: I may have missed some information as it is a long post. Ill add more if and when I remember anything else.
I have blogged it here: Flipkarts shady business practices.*|*BT-G.com: The Everything Blog
