• Hello and Welcome to HiFiVision.com - an online community for the home entertainment and tech enthusiasts!

    If you would like to ask a question, participate in a discussion and view attachments please Register yourself.

Getting a Berning amp

Audiolab 6000A Amplifier

prem

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
4,464
Points
113
Location
Mumbai
I already have a maxed out Virens 2A3 amp. Will be adding one more amp.

Its a customised David Berning 2A3 ZOTL PP Class A with no feedback amp with a fully differential balanced circuit and a passive Goldpoint vol atteunator. Its probably the first of its kind. Instead of a 2A3 might also use a 6B4 tube.

It will be a 10 watt amp. It weighs only 4 kgs.

It will take 3 to 4 months for delivery since the design is still being finalised.
 

soulforged

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
1,442
Points
83
Location
Bangalore
Nice! :)

He also seems to make an interesting pair of monoblocks...wonder how they are...and how much they are...
 

prem

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
4,464
Points
113
Location
Mumbai
The monoblocs are USD 73500

Never heard a Berning. So no idea how they sound
 
Last edited:

prem

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
4,464
Points
113
Location
Mumbai
There will be only one amp in the chain. The Berning or Virens
 

Srinath_seshadri

New Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2012
Messages
384
Points
0
Location
Charlotte NC, USA
Z OTL - OK OTL is Output Transformer Less - always a interesting design, with some limitations (but then what hasn't got limits) - what is Z ??
Cool.
Srinath.
 

prem

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
4,464
Points
113
Location
Mumbai
Z stands for zero hysterisis. ZOTL is a patented design. It's not a conventional OTL amp. David Berning manufactures vacuum tube amplifiers based on an unique Impedance Converter that replaces the traditional audio power output transformer. The technology is called ZOTL for Zero-Hysteresis Output Transformerless.
Operating at a fixed high-frequency without traditional audio output transformers, the ZOTL Impedance Converter eliminates the frequency-dependent performance limitations inherent in all transformer coupled tube amps.

Sumanta, you DIY experts, simply cut and make. We poor souls can only cut and paste:)
 
Last edited:

Nikhil

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
3,324
Points
113
Location
Hyderabad
Hi Prem,

Definitely some new gyaan for me as well.
Look forward to when it arrives at your place!

Regards.
 

prem

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
4,464
Points
113
Location
Mumbai
Sure Nikhil. Amp may take about 3 months. Then I need to figure how to get it here

Nikhil, the Berning amp has a SMPS. No linear power supply for him:) It's a very highly advanced SMPS design which are used by the likes of NASA. Everything in Bernings design goes against conventional wisdom. In his design he prefers PP to SE saying its purer. In fact his PP class A no feedback design is more expensive than his SE design which is not how it is with other manufacturers of tube amps. The SE designs are way more expensive than pp design. There are three patents in his amp. Hope it works in my system:)
 

Fantastic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
866
Points
93
Location
Third Rock
SE's would usually be more expensive than an 'equivalent' PP amp because of the cost of the transformers. They are much bigger too. More weight , much more money ! :) Tubes also need to be larger than PP for an equivalent power output.

Often with more complex winding patterns and that makes it even more expensive..then core types....etc.. Making a 'good' special SE amp means you start pulling out the stops where ever you can and the end result could be quite shockingly expensive ! But you could certainly make the PP far more expensive by adding on 'proprietary circuitry' and have 'very special parts'. Not to mention the extra charges for the idea ! This one claims "Harmonically sophisticated ". WOW that must cost a lot ! But what does it mean ? Ideal ( the best ) amps should have no self generated harmonics ! So this one is great because it does just that in a special way. One MUST listen to it. That would explain it all.

In the market you get eyeballs only if the manufacturer claims something special about it. Or it's a stunner visually . That works for 'anything' ! :)

But blind listening tests can always tell you what it really is like.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

prem

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
4,464
Points
113
Location
Mumbai
Hi Fantastic

I have a SE Amp where I have used 80 percent nickel output transformers, interstage transformers and chokes. I know how much they cost.

I don't understand the point of your post
 

Fantastic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
866
Points
93
Location
Third Rock
.....Operating at a fixed high-frequency .......without traditional audio output transformers..............

........... It's a very highly advanced SMPS design which are used by the likes of NASA.........he prefers PP to SE saying its purer. ..........In fact his PP class A no feedback design is more expensive than his SE design which is not how it is with other manufacturers of tube amps.

The first line makes no technical sense for an audio amplifier. Adding transformers at the output also doesn't involve any 'fixed frequencies' and transformers are also used mostly only on tube amplifiers as they are high output impedance devices. You NEED them to match it with low impedance speakers. It's an absolute necessity with low impedance speakers. An OTL is a very special application of tubes and not too many around.

Why would a good SMPS be different from the one NASA uses ? Good regulation , low noise , efficiency and reliability is all they design them for. Plenty of great ones around nowadays. They have come a very long way. Just look at all the new generation PA power amplifiers with SMPS's! Only difference with NASA's designs would be designed to be more rugged with more reliable parts . They handle VERY wide temperature fluctuations sometimes. Not required domestically It's just a design feature and not a function.
His PP's are more expensive than his SE's. Could be. But being class A and not having any negative feedback isn't the reason. Lots of tube amps (most ?) have been designed without negative feedback. Many sound superb.

For someone new about all this , reading the 'blurb' would really confuse them thoroughly !:)
 

prem

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
4,464
Points
113
Location
Mumbai
The SMPS line was for Nikhil. It's something he and I have been discussing offline. In fact Berning does not mention anything in his site about the power supply he uses. It's the reviewers who have discussed it at length.

I know OTL s have problems with low impedance speakers.

The point I was talking about which is irrelevant to the thread is about how there are many cheaply priced amps that sound good and that one should do a blind test with three systems. I never asked for cheaper options.

Berning's reason for PP sounding better in his design is because he uses chokes in his SE design which he says limits the lower frequencies
 
Last edited by a moderator:
M

mpw

Guest
Hi Fantastic

I have a SE Amp where I have used 80 percent nickel output transformers, interstage transformers and chokes. I know how much they cost.

I don't understand the point of your post

what FM Fantastic says is... try before you buy.

He knows you are Prem and not Premji :p

:)

@prem, what made you decide on this particular amp ?

regards
 
Last edited by a moderator:

prem

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
4,464
Points
113
Location
Mumbai
@mpw, I have never heard this topology. Also a few people I spoke to spoke very very highly of the Berning amp. So decided to go for it. The main reason being the topology. It's more of an experimental thing

I would rather use concept of try and buy for more important things in life. Maybe a job, maybe a wife;)

I wouldn't waste it on inconsequential things like amps and speakers.:)

@Fantastic, my apologies if i came a little hard. I am sorry.

In fact you are among the very few on the forum who is so technically aware. I find some of your posts very enlightening
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Srinath_seshadri

New Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2012
Messages
384
Points
0
Location
Charlotte NC, USA
No ATKT's ?? :)

me - mpw ( passed out ... ) from IIPM - M ;)



Plenty of those in my 4yrs.
That's what happens when you have to take field based on your rank instead of interest.

Anyway I work as a software engineer which I never got interested in till a girl showed up in my life ... so there, so much for having interest or aptitude.

Cool.
Srinath.
 

Hiten

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2008
Messages
2,975
Points
113
Location
Kalyan
Hello Prem,
congrats for the new amp. This looks like a unique amp. You always buy something different which audio enthusiasts can also benefit by audition :).
Best Regards.
 
Top