Is AV Receiver good for Music ?

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

This is my experience : I consider all these as “amplifiers” in general. Let it be stereo integrated, separates, amp inside a avr - all these are just amplifiers.

What is an ideal amp? Something which just amplifies the gain of the input signal to drive the speakers without adding anything else other than gain. The best enegineered ones to me are the ones that can act like a box just increased the loudness of the signal coming to it.

Due to the lack of eingeeering skills or intentionally some brands deviate from this target resulting in certain coloration of sound.

There is no thumb rule that one kind of amp is always worse than the other. But now if we look at it from a price perspective, we can see that say at 1 lakh rupees, a AVR has to give the customer lots more than just two channels of amplification compared to a stereo amp.

They have to put lot more of parts into a similar sized box to achieve it.
There are lot of electronics around the primary two channels in an avr which would cause distortion and poor snr as all their electrical fields can interact. Even the parts of the amp module can interact with each other due to the smaller size available for them. So to achieve the numbers that the same amp module sitting in another cabin specifically for them, there is an additional effort in engineering needed. Whether the company wants to deal with it or leave it as their “house sound” is up to the companies. But nowadays, there are very good engineered amp modules that seems to have handled these limitations well- denon x3600/3700 out performs many dedicated stereo amps from the past in terms of SNR, and has a neutral frequency response getting it close to the idea of a -“gain box”. This doesn’t apply to previous versions of denons even like x3500 or below. So we cannot generally say, AVRs are bad or generally DENON avrs are better than stereo amps.

That being said, a person who has listened to so many “house sounds” and gotten used to them like this over a period would think even linear as another house sound(to some it sounds boring)!! There is a chance that even he may prefer a certain coloration over a perfectly engineered amp. Again, do you need a fun sound or an engineered sound is the question here. There is no one good thing here, end of the day what what’s on paper may not be the one you would end up liking when you hear it.

 

[Nitin K]

If high end AVR is to be considered, then selection of speakers too, is important

Few speakers in my list, as of now : Wharfedale 12.2 / 12.3 , Q Acoustic 3050i, Polk R500 / R200 , Dali Oberon 5

I'll try to take audition of these speakers, then decide on it

If any of FM's use these speakers for their Music/HT listening with AVR, can share your experience pls



Regards,

​

You have listed decent mainstream speakers which do well with most of the mainstream avr's like Denon/Marantz/Cambridge/ Pioneer/Yamaha. I would buy the speakers first after hearing them and then the amp/avr as per my needs. You can also try speakers from Elac and PSB too as they are also good.
Currently I am using a Marantz SR 7011 and have the small Dali Oberon 1's as fronts and surrounds with a subwoofer. The sound is quite good. The power from the amp is adequate for my needs. With the Audyssey phone app you can tweak the sound to an extent as per your tastes.
In the end how well the speakers, amp/avr and the source integrate will dictate the sound.

The room inadequacies will be taken care to an extent with room correction softwares like Audyssey, Dirac , Arc etc.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

You have listed decent mainstream speakers which do well with most of the mainstream avr's like Denon/Marantz/Cambridge/ Pioneer/Yamaha. I would buy the speakers first after hearing them and then the amp/avr as per my needs. You can also try speakers from Elac and PSB too as they are also good.
Currently I am using a Marantz SR 7011 and have the small Dali Oberon 1's as fronts and surrounds with a subwoofer. The sound is quite good. The power from the amp is adequate for my needs. With the Audyssey phone app you can tweak the sound to an extent as per your tastes.
In the end how well the speakers, amp/avr and the source integrate will dictate the sound.

The room inadequacies will be taken care to an extent with room correction softwares like Audyssey, Dirac , Arc etc.

If high end AVR is to be considered, then selection of speakers too, is important

Few speakers in my list, as of now : Wharfedale 12.2 / 12.3 , Q Acoustic 3050i, Polk R500 / R200 , Dali Oberon 5

I'll try to take audition of these speakers, then decide on it

If any of FM's use these speakers for their Music/HT listening with AVR, can share your experience pls



Regards,

​

I had an opportunity to listen to loads of speakers on denon and a Cambridge avr and stereo amps in dec 2021. To my ears, the KEF r3 bookshelf out performed all of the entry level floorstanders. Honestly I tried it just out of curiosity as I was shopping for a floorstander anyway. Also, on paper they are absolutely perfect. Please give it a try before going for a floorstander. May be you will be surprised. I was it’s pricier but after hearing it you may rethink about priorities.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

You have listed decent mainstream speakers which do well with most of the mainstream avr's like Denon/Marantz/Cambridge/ Pioneer/Yamaha. I would buy the speakers first after hearing them and then the amp/avr as per my needs. You can also try speakers from Elac and PSB too as they are also good.
Currently I am using a Marantz SR 7011 and have the small Dali Oberon 1's as fronts and surrounds with a subwoofer. The sound is quite good. The power from the amp is adequate for my needs. With the Audyssey phone app you can tweak the sound to an extent as per your tastes.
In the end how well the speakers, amp/avr and the source integrate will dictate the sound.

The room inadequacies will be taken care to an extent with room correction softwares like Audyssey, Dirac , Arc etc.

In an average reflecting room, instead of filling the room with foam, I think even for a stereo setup room correction is important. How do we get here at the cheapest? Get an AVR with something to compensate the room. In a ideal room a stereo amp may outperform, but everything hangs around what is our objective- target sound and how we get their isn’t important. Like I mentioned the kef r3 is a good speaker that can handle lot of eq due to its low distortion levels. So you have a good canvas to compensate for your room.

 

[Raj22]

I’m using SR5015 to drive my R3s along with my Q150 surrounds and R2C center (coming soon). I’m super happy with the sound. I’ll probably add a 3 channel power amp in future to remove a bit of burden from the AVR. I mostly listen to music in direct or stereo depending upon my mood.

 

[Nitin K]

In an average reflecting room, instead of filling the room with foam, I think even for a stereo setup room correction is important. How do we get here at the cheapest? Get an AVR with something to compensate the room. In a ideal room a stereo amp may outperform, but everything hangs around what is our objective- target sound and how we get their isn’t important. Like I mentioned the kef r3 is a good speaker that can handle lot of eq due to its low distortion levels. So you have a good canvas to compensate for your room.

True, if the op has the budget for Kefs , then no harm in auditioning them and taking a decision.

 

[vaasu]

No, an av receiver cannot make speakers sing properly in stereo mode. But if u spend lakhs on a av receiver than it may sound good. Only a proper, powerful stereo amplifier can bring life out of speakers intended for stereo listening. I came to know this only when i bought Norge 1000 gold stereo amplifier. This is a POOR MAN'S POWER HORSE. The amp delivers intense power. Good Protein food for my mission QX2, The amp costed me 15000/- including delivery charges. Recently i connected the speakers to a yamaha stereo receiver model no rs201 (which once i thought was a great and powerful stereo amplifier)to compare with norge, but the sound quality when connected to Norge is miles ahead of yamaha. And the yamaha costs 25000/-.

 

[apbinu]

No, an av receiver cannot make speakers sing properly in stereo mode. But if u spend lakhs on a av receiver than it may sound good. Only a proper, powerful stereo amplifier can bring life out of speakers intended for stereo listening. I came to know this only when i bought Norge 1000 gold stereo amplifier. This is a POOR MAN'S POWER HORSE. The amp delivers intense power. Good Protein food for my mission QX2, The amp costed me 15000/- including delivery charges. Recently i connected the speakers to a yamaha stereo receiver model no rs201 (which once i thought was a great and powerful stereo amplifier)to compare with norge, but the sound quality when connected to Norge is miles ahead of yamaha. And the yamaha costs 25000/-.

i second above comments, it all depends on your use case, are you more inclined towards music? then would suggest to go with dedicated IA instead of AVR. however if your in movie-music (50-50) then AVR might make sense to start of with, later based on your requirement opt for dedicated IA If you really see the need for it. In my case, I completely shifted from AVR to dedicated IA eventually, currently using Soundbar+Subwoofer combo for movies which i'm completely satisfied considering my requirement.

Key is to audition, see what suits your need & sounds good to your ears. Happy listening.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

before jumping into a conclusion, try listening to a stereo amp in a normal room with lot of furniture windows and all types of materials around with a av receiver with audessey xt32 and a traditional stereo amp end of the day what sound reaches your listening spot is what matters. Objectively producing at the source with a certain quality only guarantee that near the speaker it’s perfectly reproduced. Unless the room is like a acoustic chamber, that’s not what reaches the spot of listening. So but if your room already has nice acoustics you may get good results but NOT the result which any reviewers claimed to have (may be better or worse) as you don’t listen in exactly the same room like them with the same furniture around. Subjective reviews are not reliable for this exact same reason.

 

[k-pad]

Thanks for the input Dear

Just for curiosity :

What is that The true (real world) sensitivity of the speaker and true (real world) quality of the first watt of power.

For a room of say 2 metres length, if you can choose a quality speaker of 90+ sensitivity, half your problem is solved.
And then, like others have said above, it's just a matter of preference - again, provided the power product is a quality one. That quality product could be an AVR or an amplifier. It is just a matter of taste.

When you say, consider your room first,

- what to be considered or to do, if I'll be using my living room for hifi and HT setup

The dimensions of a room dictates how the room sounds. The closer to a square, the worse the bass and standing waves get.
Mine is a 10Wx12L room and if I sit smack at 6 feet in the room, I have realised that that spot is where bass goes to die No number of amps or avrs can address this.
Either 5 feet from the speakers or 7 feet from the speakers works best for my room.

also, look to treat the first reflections on the sides at least if the room allows.

Basically, any clean source of amplification that makes your speakers sound good to your ears is good for you.

 

[SiR]

try listening to a stereo amp in a normal room with lot of furniture windows and all types of materials around with a av receiver with audessey xt32 and a traditional stereo amp end of the day what sound reaches your listening spot is what matters

This is what challenging in the present situation and I've to get audition of the same, as much as possible.

Fortunately, one of a FM from Chennai, helped me to experience his Setup recently, where he has used his AVR for stereo. [ He has invited to exp his Tube amp too in near future ] It was a great experience and the information & knowledge he shared was of immense help, where I'm much grateful to him.

if your room already has nice acoustics you may get good results but NOT the result which any reviewers

What kind of acoustics we can or should have in a Living Room to optimize the listening exp ? [ when we rely on AVR for music listening ]

FS speakers need ample room [say at least 1 to 1.5 feet ] behind / beside them


Came across a Thread, in this Forum, reg the firmware update problem of Denon AVR [ as of now, my priority is for Denon, if I go for AVR ]

 

[SiR]

The dimensions of a room dictates how the room sounds. The closer to a square, the worse the bass and standing waves get. Mine is a 10Wx12L room and if I sit smack at 6 feet in the room, I have realised that that spot is where bass goes to die No number of amps or avrs can address this.

My listening area / TV viewing area in the Living room too, is almost a square [12' W X 15' L ]

Living room : listening area [12' W X 15' L ] beside walking passage [3.5' W X 15' L ] beside which utility area [ 5.5' W X 15' L ]

What could be best thing to do regarding acoustics / reflection ?


Hope our FMs input could do great help


Regards,

 

[raghupb]

My listening area / TV viewing area in the Living room too, is almost a square [12' W X 15' L ]

Living room : listening area [12' W X 15' L ] beside walking passage [3.5' W X 15' L ] beside which utility area [ 5.5' W X 15' L ]

What could be best thing to do regarding acoustics / reflection ?


Hope our FMs input could do great help


Regards,

Chill!!
If you get an AVR, it will do room compensation.
Get the speakers that appeal to you.
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

This is what challenging in the present situation and I've to get audition of the same, as much as possible.

Fortunately, one of a FM from Chennai, helped me to experience his Setup recently, where he has used his AVR for stereo. [ He has invited to exp his Tube amp too in near future ] It was a great experience and the information & knowledge he shared was of immense help, where I'm much grateful to him.



What kind of acoustics we can or should have in a Living Room to optimize the listening exp ? [ when we rely on AVR for music listening ]

FS speakers need ample room [say at least 1 to 1.5 feet ] behind / beside them


Came across a Thread, in this Forum, reg the firmware update problem of Denon AVR [ as of now, my priority is for Denon, if I go for AVR ]

If it’s a living room, honestly it would be better toadd a thick rug, then choose furnitures that has less reflective surfaces and more foam. Acoustic foams work wonders but honestly they look weird in a living room.

Move the couch away from the back wall. Keep speakers away from front wall and side wall(give them breathing space!!).

Next step if things didn’t get better, On the top of the tv unit add 1 inch foam, with removable covers in the color of the tv unit for washing. Add an acoustic panel in the first reflection point(at the listening spot, it would be place where you see the speakers first when you move a mirror on left and right walls towards you from the front wall. Add another acoustic foam behind the couch on the wall. Add bass traps on left and right front corners(if possible on the rear corners too). Add one on the ceiling again where the first reflection point is. Keep the speakers in the room in 1/3 - 2/3 ratio of rooms length. That means if you divide your rooms length from front wall to rear wall, at 1/3 of the length of the room keep the speakers and at 2/3 keep the couch.

About denon, it’s pretty much the same with every brand. If look in other forums, you see complaints about possibly every brand.

 

[Nitin K]

Raghu is right. Take it step by step as it comes along . The avr will do the room correction to an extent . Better to buy speakers first ideal for the room size. You may need to decide bookshelf of floorstanders as per the size of the room.
When you try to accomplish too many things together you may get overwhelmed with too many opinions. Better to keep things simple.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

Raghu is right. Take it step by step as it comes along . The avr will do the room correction to an extent . Better to buy speakers first ideal for the room size. You may need to decide bookshelf of floorstanders as per the size of the room.
When you try to accomplish too many things together you may get overwhelmed with too many opinions. Better to keep things simple.

Also, we appreciate each components contribution more when we take a small step every time.

 

[SiR]

Keep the speakers in the room in 1/3 - 2/3 ratio of rooms length. That means if you divide your rooms length from front wall to rear wall, at 1/3 of the length of the room keep the speakers and at 2/3 keep the couch.

Thanks for the input

But I doubt, practically will it be possible to keep & use the speakers in 1/3 - 2/3 ratio ?

Having 15' L of living room and to keep the speaker at 1/3, it will be at 5' and the couch at 2/3, it will be at 10'

So the distance from the speaker to the couch will be only 5' and back to the couch, there will be 5', left unused


Hope, I understood you correctly, to what you said and my doubt is valid


Regarding Denon, its not only the Hardware problem, also few other factors like, change in their DAC, where recently AKM was replaced by other DAC [ recent fire in AKM factory ]

 

[SiR]

Raghu is right. Take it step by step as it comes along . The avr will do the room correction to an extent . Better to buy speakers first ideal for the room size. You may need to decide bookshelf of floorstanders as per the size of the room.
When you try to accomplish too many things together you may get overwhelmed with too many opinions. Better to keep things simple.

My listening area / TV viewing area in the Living room too, is almost a square [12' W X 15' L ]

Living room : listening area [12' W X 15' L ] beside walking passage [3.5' W X 15' L ] beside which utility area [ 5.5' W X 15' L ]

Speakers for the room size mentioned above, I prefer to go for either Q Acoustics 3050i or Wharfedale 12.3 or DALI Oberon 5
[ Still not finalized ]

Hope these will be good for the music preference, clubbed with a good AVR

 

[Nitin K]

Speakers for the room size mentioned above, I prefer to go for either Q Acoustics 3050i or Wharfedale 12.3 or DALI Oberon 5
[ Still not finalized ]

Hope these will be good for the music preference, clubbed with a good AVR

They are good speakers for music and movies but your ears would be a better judge.
For Qacoustics 3050, you can DM fm Sean de Silva and for Dali Oberon 5, you can get in touch with Argho.
Both of them are happy with their speakers. For your room size they should easily suffice.

 

[Bloom@83]

Speakers for the room size mentioned above, I prefer to go for either Q Acoustics 3050i or Wharfedale 12.3 or DALI Oberon 5
[ Still not finalized ]

Hope these will be good for the music preference, clubbed with a good AVR

Have you finalised the AVR ?