J Play launches its own Cables - Any one used them ?

[mowgli80]

or to put it in another way..the person does not need a higher system..unfortunately that opinion does not come with the certificate that there is no difference.

There can be times when, as well put by ranjeetrain, people can certify there will be no difference even without listening, based on their actual expertise.

Some thoughts expressed here remind me of audiophile version of The Emperor's New Clothes .

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

people can certify there will be no difference even without listening, based on their actual expertise

So... there would be no point in my filling my car's petrol tank with water?

But, you have probably never tried, so I request answers only from those who have.

By the way...

Look at the Jplay cables. Solid aluminium connectors! (why?) but still they have the silly rj45 tags which will snap off if you pull them through a cable tangle.

And SATA cables? Well, that had to happen, as the idea has been knocking around for a while. Bhagwan nails it....

Crazy - is it not ?

 

[arj]

So... there would be no point in my filling my car's petrol tank with water?

But, you have probably never tried, so I request answers only from those who have.

thad, but if you do that and claim it runs better..then its a different story hyeah: i might give you your lattitude..but damn if i am going to risk it on mine

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I can guarantee that there will be a much lower noise floor --- at least, there will be after I finish running the battery down trying to start it. It will make for a car with truly black, deep silences.

(come to think of it, the way I'm beginning to feel about driving, maybe I should try it!)

 

[ranjeetrain]

(come to think of it, the way I'm beginning to feel about driving, maybe I should try it!)

I patiently wait for your 'listeing' result (of the sound of engine). I'm sure it will make the audiophile grade.

And shame on you if you can't hear the difference. No 'audiophile' tag for you.

 

[ranjeetrain]

or to put it in another way..the person does not need a higher system..unfortunately that opinion does not come with the certificate that there is no difference.

A person doesn't need to climb on a 100 feet high water tank and jump to the ground in order to know he will die or end with a 100 fractures. Knowledge doesn't need a certificate. Any sane person would know it without actually trying, rather than seek a certificate from a self-proclaimed expert challenging others for lack of actual experience and denying them the respect by calling their experience 'un-subtantiated'.

 

[ranjeetrain]

On a rather simple note - why do audiophiles exist ?
To be in a position to appreciate music in it finest & most natural form.

Music Lovers are many - but many of them are not audiophiles.

Therefore, if a person listens to 2 different systems & cannot tell what the differences are [even to himself] he may not be the 'right' candidate to do any 'critical' listening.

So my primary point is - let some person that can 'hear' small changes in audio set ups - power cable 'swap' / 'rca or xlr' cable change / orientation of audio gear / routing of cables / etc. etc. do the listening - then form an opinion - if there is a difference or there is no difference.

Of Cause, this needs 2 things - [a] The Cables [as the topic of this thread suggests] A person can 'Listen' as you suggested this is a ccp from your post # 15.

I like reading your posts. There is so much in them to learn from.

Music Lovers are many - but many of them are not audiophiles.

Therefore, if a person listens to 2 different systems & cannot tell what the differences are [even to himself] he may not be the 'right' candidate to do any 'critical' listening.

This is the first time I have seen anywhere such a clear distinction made between a music lover and an 'audiophile'. (Quotes are to indicate I am implying your kind of audiophile).

According to your definition of Audiophile, an extremely small percentage of people are 'audiophile'. Let us see who don't make your 'audiophile' cut.

(1) People who are using entry-level/mid-level systems.
(2) People who are using high-end systems but don't play with cables or racks or orientation.
(3) People who are using ultra-high-end systems but have not been able to tell a difference between the sound when they changed a spike or isolator.
(4) People who are using a decently resolving system who have put it together after choosing from dozens/hundreds of components but can't hear a difference when make a small change as indicated by you.

All the above type of people and many more, are not audiophiles. They are not a 'right candidate' for 'critical listening' hence their opinion is void.

Seems like a new mantra is on the horizon, if you are the 'right candidate' (an audiophile meeting a criteria), 'listen critically' and decide. Don't post 'un-substantiated' 'personal takes'.

 

[ranjeetrain]

There can be times when, as well put by ranjeetrain, people can certify there will be no difference even without listening, based on their actual expertise.

Some thoughts expressed here remind me of audiophile version of The Emperor's New Clothes .

These emperors exist in all times and ages. Their ministers have to admit hearing the difference (I mean not seeing the cloths) to retain their position and title. Afterall, who wants to go without an 'audiophile' tag on a hifi forum?

 

[ranjeetrain]

but if you do that and claim it runs better..then its a different story

Yeah, sure it is. A very popular one at that. It's called The Emperor's New Cloths.

 

[bhagwan]

Lots of people love music.
Many of them listen to music.
Some Play an instrument & Some Sing - they are musicians.
However, every musician is not [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_pitch]
Yet, they are musicians;

All people that love music - listen to it.
They do so to enjoy them selves.

What they use to listen to their music is all up to their own personal preference.

Most may listen to music on a radio or a mp3 player on their phone or some other device. They are all lovers of music.

However, audiophile are not in the category - so I feel.
They [Audiophiles] too are music lovers & like their music - but they like to hear it in a slightly more 'clear' & accurate manner.

Weather a person spends x on his set up or 10 x or 100 x or what ever, that is of no importance here - we are not discussing finances.
The issue on hand is - can 'most' people listen & tell a difference ?
Simple things in audio - phantom centre - left to right spacing - front to back layering etc. etc.
These are abilities in listening that take a long time to get right - understand & most people are not able to know what to look for.
Yet, they are all audiophiles - they are in the pursuit of listening to good sound from some audio source.

I just say, if something cannot be heard by all - does not mean it may or may not exist.
I just say - TRY IT & then decide if there is a change.
If so, good - if not then also good.

No person that tries this will have any effect on his physical being like what you suggested :-

A person doesn't need to climb on a 100 feet high water tank and jump to the ground in order to know he will die or end with a 100 fractures.

It is very very simple.
Use 2 computers - load win 8 on both.
Download the free - trial version of J Play.
Follow the instruction of set up.
Play it - swap the Ethernet Cable - Play it again.
If you can hear a change - or you cannot hear a change - good either way - at least you will form an opinion based on your own listening.

Audiophile Tag or not - how does it matter ?
At the end of the day it is your OWN MUSIC SYSTEM that you have to listen to, & if you get happy & satisfied with a NAD / Denon / Yahama etc. Brilliant - a ticket to audio nirvana was purchased for a super price - he happy & celebrate;;;
What more can you ask for ?

 

[bhagwan]

I like reading your posts. There is so much in them to learn from.

Let us see who don't make your 'audiophile' cut.

(1) People who are using entry-level/mid-level systems.
(2) People who are using high-end systems but don't play with cables or racks or orientation.
(3) People who are using ultra-high-end systems but have not been able to tell a difference between the sound when they changed a spike or isolator.
(4) People who are using a decently resolving system who have put it together after choosing from dozens/hundreds of components but can't hear a difference when make a small change as indicated by you.

All the above type of people and many more, are not audiophiles. They are not a 'right candidate' for 'critical listening' hence their opinion is void.

Sir,
my take is very very simple;
If you own an audio set up - does not make you an audiophile;
You could be a person that does not own any audio set up - but could be a 'discerning' listener.
Listening to audio 'intently' is an 'acquired' thing - all do not have it.
I do not know - who has it & who does not.
If you do, good - if you do not then too good.
This is a bar that one sets for oneself.
What you own / purchase etc. is all circumspect.
Can you maximize what you have / have heard etc. is important.
If you attend a concert & buy the cheapest ticket & another person buys the most expensive ticket - the performance for both visitors is the same - regardless of the amount they have paid.
So, put your effort on the performance - rather than the amount you have spent on the ticket;
The ticket cost [that some one spends] is no barometer of how much he likes the music or what he understood - at least that is my feeling.
Some Chief Sponsor may pay for the concert - just because he has a deep pocket - that does not mean that a music lover / that cannot afford to spend on the show ticket will not enjoy the concert more;;;
Just my 2 cents.

Sir,
Just spend time - listen & observe.
Make an effort of listen more intently.
There is so much to learn for all of us.
We can all choose to discount any and every thing we encounter - who is the looser - only us - instead, when there is no down side - try it & then come to an answer - there is no -ve side to it....:sad:

 

[panditji]

Guys, let's try out the below process and figure out whether the combo makes any difference or not...It should not but without conducting the actual experiment it makes no sense to reject the below notion....

Who is up for it in Delhi? Can we have 2 volunteers with Windows 8 loaded laptops to test in a high resolution system?

It is very very simple.
Use 2 computers - load win 8 on both.
Download the free - trial version of J Play.
Follow the instruction of set up.
Play it - swap the Ethernet Cable - Play it again.
If you can hear a change - or you cannot hear a change - good either way - at least you will form an opinion based on your own listening.

Audiophile Tag or not - how does it matter ?
At the end of the day it is your OWN MUSIC SYSTEM that you have to listen to, & if you get happy & satisfied with a NAD / Denon / Yahama etc. Brilliant - a ticket to audio nirvana was purchased for a super price - he happy & celebrate;;;
What more can you ask for ?

 

[ranjeetrain]

Guys, let's try out the below process and figure out whether the combo makes any difference or not...It should not but without conducting the actual experiment it makes no sense to reject the below notion....

Who is up for it in Delhi? Can we have 2 volunteers with Windows 8 loaded laptops to test in a high resolution system?

I would be up for it with contribution on resources provided I am in Delhi at the time. If not, I will surely initiate it when I am there. This forum can surely do with more truth.

But till such time such an experiemnt is carried out, I would not accept it making it a difference either. And all such opinions predicting no difference should be given equal respect. Those opinions can't be rejected either.

 

[panditji]

Fair enough Ranjeet....but if Mazher is making a claim to hear substantial differences then we must hear the differences or lack of it ourselves, before rejecting his claim outright...

It is a simple experiment which can be conducted very easily and if there is no difference then we can all bash up Mazher together on the forum....If proven wrong ( I too am very sceptical), Mazher has the right to thrash all of us....I am sure there are emoticons which can do that on the forum....

 

[bhagwan]

I would be up for it with contribution on resources provided I am in Delhi at the time. If not, I will surely initiate it when I am there. This forum can surely do with more truth.

But till such time such an experiemnt is carried out, I would not accept it making it a difference either. And all such opinions predicting no difference should be given equal respect. Those opinions can't be rejected either.

Super;
Sir,

I am impressed.
Brilliant Attitude.

This is the 'right' way to proceed.
Do the 'experiment'
You can decide - either way - I am 100 % OK with it.

Just 1 small request;
a]
2 Computers
b]
Windows 8
c]
Ultra Engine - Follow all J Play 'instructions' to the 'T'
d]
Use any audio set up - no matter what it is - just keep all parameters 'constant' in both cases.
e]
You may use USB OUT from 2nd Computer to a DAC Direct & just play with 3 / 4 different Ethernet Cables - all can be 'generic' [Rs. 500/- per piece could be the most expensive cable used]
f]
Also try Cat 5 / Cat 6 & Cat 7 [different Cables] & try to listen to differences if there are any.

Trust me - when I say this - if you do not find a difference - I will still respect you - more than ever - simple because you went down the path & decided for your self. That too me is more important than anything else...

The idea here is to know & decide - what an individual likes or dislikes...

How I wish you could come to Mumbai - we could have met & heard some music together - would have been a nice evening spent...:clapping:

I wish you the best - hope you do this;

God Bless !

 

[ranjeetrain]

Fair enough Ranjeet....but if Mazher is making a claim to hear substantial differences then we must hear the differences or lack of it ourselves, before rejecting his claim outright...

It is a simple experiment which can be conducted very easily and if there is no difference then we can all bash up Mazher together on the forum....If proven wrong ( I too am very sceptical), Mazher has the right to thrash all of us....I am sure there are emoticons which can do that on the forum....

No Rahul, actually the whole point is we need to stop this bashing and thrashing. We just need respectful place for all members holding their positions.

What if the experiment is carried out and majority of listeners can't tell a difference? Shall we start a forum wide bashing and thrashing war between those who heard the difference and those who didn't?

In the thread where bhagwan was called a fool for the experiment he was carrying, I stood against those insulting post. In this thread, the opinion of people is being rejected by calling them 'personal take', 'un-substantiated'. I am against that.

Personally to me, the outcome of this experiment makes absolutely no difference. I carry tons of experiments for myself to enhance my own music experience (so much so that I would be creating a new thread nearly every week if I post every experiment) I do. So, this is not really relevent to me. But as someone who participates on this forum often I find it awkward that many long-time and experienced members take a strange stand about opinion of people who don't agree with them.

PS: I agree, we can do with more emots

 

[bhagwan]

Fair enough Ranjeet....but if Mazher is making a claim to hear substantial differences then we must hear the differences or lack of it ourselves, before rejecting his claim outright...

It is a simple experiment which can be conducted very easily and if there is no difference then we can all bash up Mazher together on the forum....If proven wrong ( I too am very sceptical), Mazher has the right to thrash all of us....I am sure there are emoticons which can do that on the forum....

Sir,
With due respect;
On a 100 % truthful note, none of this matters / nor is it important to me.
I know what I am listening to.
If you too can hear it - good.
If you cannot, also good with me.
I do not want to prove any point to you - or to any one.
I have no cable to promote - nor do I have any cable to sell.
I just know 1 thing, I was a NON Believer in J Play for 3 + Years.
I was a Foobar & J River guy.
Most of my Audiophile friends here - 3 of them 'swore' by J Play & it did not make the difference in my set up @ home. They all came & tried it & none preferred the J Play in my house.
However, when I changed to the 2 Machine set up the leap was huge & after I had settled on that - the Cable 'experiment' was next on the card - therefore I tried it & I just posted my results.
No one is 'bound' to accept what I have observed - it is just that I have written about what I heard. Simple..

 

[ranjeetrain]

Super;
Sir,

I am impressed.
Brilliant Attitude.

This is the 'right' way to proceed.
Do the 'experiment'
You can decide - either way - I am 100 % OK with it.

Just 1 small request;
a]
2 Computers
b]
Windows 8
c]
Ultra Engine - Follow all J Play 'instructions' to the 'T'
d]
Use any audio set up - no matter what it is - just keep all parameters 'constant' in both cases.
e]
You may use USB OUT from 2nd Computer to a DAC Direct & just play with 3 / 4 different Ethernet Cables - all can be 'generic' [Rs. 500/- per piece could be the most expensive cable used]
f]
Also try Cat 5 / Cat 6 & Cat 7 [different Cables] & try to listen to differences if there are any.

Trust me - when I say this - if you do not find a difference - I will still respect you - more than ever - simple because you went down the path & decided for your self. That too me is more important than anything else...

The idea here is to know & decide - what an individual likes or dislikes...

How I wish you could come to Mumbai - we could have met & heard some music together - would have been a nice evening spent...:clapping:

I wish you the best - hope you do this;

God Bless !

Sir, resources would not be a problem, except a ultra resolving pair of speakers which I don't own. By the grace of God, rest of the resources I can single handedly provide with some to spare.

I would be really happy to bring some facts on the table backed by actual experiment. But in the meanttime while there is a lack of opportunity/bandwidth for such an experiment, let's maintain a respectful and as neutral stand on this as possible.

 

[bhagwan]

I would be really happy to bring some facts on the table backed by actual experiment. But in the meanttime while there is a lack of opportunity/bandwidth for such an experiment, let's maintain a respectful and as neutral stand on this as possible.

Sir,
That has 100 % been my attitude & approach from day 1;
I am sure you have [must have] noticed, I have not provoked or 'reacted' to any 'post' that could be misconstrued as 'provocative' & not one that maintains the 'decorum' of 'sanctity' of this forum.
I shall continue with the same attitude.
My only intent here - sir is that people try and accept or reject - what ever they can listen to & I shall truly respect them for that - regardless of the result. Cause the result is not important to me - I know what I like, so that is not under dispute.
Now, if someone else likes it, good - if not, still good;
At least they have done it [tried] & then formed an opinion & to me that is MOST IMPORTANT.
Thank You - once again for your time & resources - just try to set the 2 computers up as J Play has suggested - shall be helpful - that is all I request you.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Sir,
That has 100 % been my attitude & approach from day 1;
I am sure you have [must have] noticed, I have not provoked or 'reacted' to any 'post' that could be misconstrued as 'provocative' & not one that maintains the 'decorum' of 'sanctity' of this forum.
I shall continue with the same attitude.
My only intent here - sir is that people try and accept or reject - what ever they can listen to & I shall truly respect them for that - regardless of the result. Cause the result is not important to me - I know what I like, so that is not under dispute.
Now, if someone else likes it, good - if not, still good;
At least they have done it [tried] & then formed an opinion & to me that is MOST IMPORTANT.
Thank You - once again for your time & resources - just try to set the 2 computers up as J Play has suggested - shall be helpful - that is all I request you.

Sure sir. A bunch of us will surely give it a go at the earliest opportunity possible.

I have gone thorough a lot of material about JPlay. I understand their implementation and recommendation 100%. So whenever the experiment happens, it will happen the way JPlay recommnds. Nothing to worry about that.

It will be a good experiment to carry, with a lot of fun and popcorn thrown inbetween regardless of the result.