Ghatgepatil, mpw has a huge room. Its probably 500 sq.ft or even more. In his house its only an aesthetic issue. He can even get the speakers out by another feet. I think in his case its not 3 ft or 5ft or 6ft. Its either 15 inches from wall or the best sounding position
docd
Active Member
I think Santy has said it all. We did spend a great sunday afternoon listening to mpw's setup. All said, the Naim-Merlin combo works very well. I felt that shows its true colours with an analogue source. Listening to Tracy Chapman on vinyl was mesmerizing! We could have auditioned for hours without any ear fatigue. The speakers themselves have a boxy industrial look which belies their potential. They are ruthless with poor quality recordings.
M
mpw
Guest
GP,
the room is 20 by 20 & the rectangle in which we sit is 20 by 12. The other 8 feet width is a common area between 2 flats which are combined. I will try and post of pic of my room from the other side later.
as prem says - its either the place where it was or the position that sounds best. Hopefully things will develop into the latter option.
What is coming out of all the experimentation done on the Eposes and the Merlins is that to get the speakers to lock in and get that sound :-
a. space from the back wall and side walls are important. This can be even more important than simply moving up the listening chair near the speaker.
The movement of the listening position near the speaker will not be of much use as the speakers are still getting muddied by the back wall anyways..
b. reflective surfaces like glass tables etc.. need to be replaced with maybe wooden surfaces or substitutes etc.. or eliminated
c. apart from speakers specifically designed to operate with rear wall support or speakers where some form of electronic compensation ( software / hardware ) is used.. all speakers need space from the back and side walls to lock in. ( be it sealed or ported be it standmounts or floorstanders )
Once the lock in happens.. it is very difficult to go back to the original speaker position as in one keeps thinking of what is possible with a given speaker / system - provided there is adequate space for it to interact with the room.
This actually opens up the question - of smaller rooms and larger speakers.. and that's something which I haven't experienced much so cant comment on it save to guess that the speakers would need to be placed along the diagonal.
One may hear good sound in the room but one needs to try and get to the point to hear what the speaker is capable of. This could be 2 different things.
From sounding good to sounding great !
mpw
Its a pity i could not make it on Sunday evening due to other commitments. I will plan with mpw one of these weekends for sure. Great to know from Prem that the Merlin is now integrated well with the room and is sounding musical. Eager to hear from Denom too our defacto reviewer 
hyeah:
hyeah:
I reached after placement specialist Prem had had "massaged" the positioning.
The standout feature for me was the really tight bass. There were at least three different pressings of Brothers in Arms to pick from, including the best - RL Mastering. "Ride Across The River" is my "go to" track for test of bass. The bass on this track sounded tight, real tight. Perhaps more so than the proverbial rodent's behind
The speakers threw a real wide soundstage and even a bit away from the sweet spot it was clear that the speakers imaged like crazy, and the soundstage was somewhere on the plane of the walll behind, perhaps 6 foot away. The width and depth and the largeness of the sound made me search the recesses of memory to figure out where I'd heard similar, when I realised that it sounded uncannily like the Saadhanas.
With their none too large cabinet size, these speakers have no right to be sounding so big. We played at unsocial volumes and risked being physically expelled from the house, but we had a whale of a time.
With more burn in and the Duelund caps that will replace the Hovland Musicaps, the sound is likely to head north.
A very worthy upgrade, mpw. And thanks for having us over. And thanks too for the brand new CD of John Coltrane's A Love Supreme.
I thought your Technics SL 23 sounds good but I have new-found respect for it. They sound really sweet with the Denon 103 and your Blackcube II SE phonostage. And there isn't a doubt the Naim amp works really well with the Merlin.
The standout feature for me was the really tight bass. There were at least three different pressings of Brothers in Arms to pick from, including the best - RL Mastering. "Ride Across The River" is my "go to" track for test of bass. The bass on this track sounded tight, real tight. Perhaps more so than the proverbial rodent's behind
The speakers threw a real wide soundstage and even a bit away from the sweet spot it was clear that the speakers imaged like crazy, and the soundstage was somewhere on the plane of the walll behind, perhaps 6 foot away. The width and depth and the largeness of the sound made me search the recesses of memory to figure out where I'd heard similar, when I realised that it sounded uncannily like the Saadhanas.
With their none too large cabinet size, these speakers have no right to be sounding so big. We played at unsocial volumes and risked being physically expelled from the house, but we had a whale of a time.
With more burn in and the Duelund caps that will replace the Hovland Musicaps, the sound is likely to head north.
A very worthy upgrade, mpw. And thanks for having us over. And thanks too for the brand new CD of John Coltrane's A Love Supreme.
I thought your Technics SL 23 sounds good but I have new-found respect for it. They sound really sweet with the Denon 103 and your Blackcube II SE phonostage. And there isn't a doubt the Naim amp works really well with the Merlin.
M
mpw
Guest
thanks jls001..my rig is quite a modest one. I am happy that it sounds good to my ears though.
anyways.. one update..
here comes the dark chocolate upgrade ( thanks for the words neo ! )... the duelund RC n/w is here..finally !!
attached is a photo of the present RC n/w and of the Master RC n/w as well.
I would try and fix this maybe tomorrow.. i dont expect a sea change in the sound but just that bit extra to everything but after quite some time ( i am told the duelunds take a loooooooong time to burn in )
dark chocolate is an acquired taste.. not everyone likes it.. i hope i do..:licklips:
mpw
anyways.. one update..
here comes the dark chocolate upgrade ( thanks for the words neo ! )... the duelund RC n/w is here..finally !!
attached is a photo of the present RC n/w and of the Master RC n/w as well.
I would try and fix this maybe tomorrow.. i dont expect a sea change in the sound but just that bit extra to everything but after quite some time ( i am told the duelunds take a loooooooong time to burn in )
dark chocolate is an acquired taste.. not everyone likes it.. i hope i do..:licklips:
mpw
Last edited by a moderator:
hifipal4all
Active Member
Congrats Mahesh ... I have listened these speakers a couple of times at ARJs place with a wonderful combination of Leben & REL subs ... Just awesome ... I hope you are experiencing the same ... Enjoy bro
M
mpw
Guest
am quite fine as things stand hifipal4all. Put in the Master RC network today and will let it play for a few months.
I will have a blind test of the standard RC n/w and the master RC n/w and hopefully denom / jls / prem will be there too. That should be an interesting day.
I will be hearing another FM who has a combo of merlin + jolida hopefully in some time and thats about it.
I have heard lots about REL subs ( especially the older ones ) and ofcourse the Lebens. Hopefully will get to atleast hear them sometime someplace.
till then.. the show goes on..
mpw
I will have a blind test of the standard RC n/w and the master RC n/w and hopefully denom / jls / prem will be there too. That should be an interesting day.
I will be hearing another FM who has a combo of merlin + jolida hopefully in some time and thats about it.
I have heard lots about REL subs ( especially the older ones ) and ofcourse the Lebens. Hopefully will get to atleast hear them sometime someplace.
till then.. the show goes on..
mpw
M
mpw
Guest
the merlin is the only speaker in know of with an RC network.. why dont the others have it ?
what is the design principle behind this ?
after about 8 hours on the master RC network with duelund caps i find them to be better than the standard RC caps.. the music has a touch more air to is and even more freedom ( if that is possible to express )
an already good speaker is becoming better and i am running out of english
it would be really interesting to blind test to validate my ears..
mpw
what is the design principle behind this ?
after about 8 hours on the master RC network with duelund caps i find them to be better than the standard RC caps.. the music has a touch more air to is and even more freedom ( if that is possible to express )
an already good speaker is becoming better and i am running out of english
it would be really interesting to blind test to validate my ears..
mpw
Its a Zobel Network.
Needs to be used depending on the Amp..some amps have a zobel at their output and in that case you should not use this as it creates something called a Tank Circuit
I believe for the Merlin this filters out very high freq signals. I used to prefer it without them .
Needs to be used depending on the Amp..some amps have a zobel at their output and in that case you should not use this as it creates something called a Tank Circuit
I believe for the Merlin this filters out very high freq signals. I used to prefer it without them .
M
mpw
Guest
the naim amp i understand does not nave a zobel at the o/p and i did experience the sound with and without it. I preferred it with the RC network but i never realized that the RC network too could contribute to the presentation of the sound.
This means that for an amp having a zobel n/w inside it.. the sound would change with better capacitors ( obviously ).. basically the RC n/w looks to be an extension of the amp circuitry but mounted on the speaker terminal.
that begs the question... why would other manufacturers not provide this considering that people would be using the speakers with all sorts of amps.. some with zobel.. some without.. ??
could there be something more than a simple RC correction ?
i will ask bobby specifically and see what he replies,
mpw
This means that for an amp having a zobel n/w inside it.. the sound would change with better capacitors ( obviously ).. basically the RC n/w looks to be an extension of the amp circuitry but mounted on the speaker terminal.
that begs the question... why would other manufacturers not provide this considering that people would be using the speakers with all sorts of amps.. some with zobel.. some without.. ??
could there be something more than a simple RC correction ?
i will ask bobby specifically and see what he replies,
mpw
mpw,
My GMAs also use Zobel networks in them. As per Roy Johnson, a Zobel circuit is particular for a driver and makes its crossover circuit perform more to 'spec'. Zobels help in making a flat impedance curve, making life easier for an amp.
The Zobel circuit for a voice coil is a capacitor and a resistor placed in parallel with the driver, before a crossover is added. It is there to make that driver's impedance curve appear flat to its crossover parts, so that they work as you would want them to, in terms of 'rate of rolloff' and for your actual -3dB crossover frequency.
The trick is in choosing the appropriate values of the resistors and caps - which has already been done for you in the case of your Merlins.
My GMAs also use Zobel networks in them. As per Roy Johnson, a Zobel circuit is particular for a driver and makes its crossover circuit perform more to 'spec'. Zobels help in making a flat impedance curve, making life easier for an amp.
The Zobel circuit for a voice coil is a capacitor and a resistor placed in parallel with the driver, before a crossover is added. It is there to make that driver's impedance curve appear flat to its crossover parts, so that they work as you would want them to, in terms of 'rate of rolloff' and for your actual -3dB crossover frequency.
The trick is in choosing the appropriate values of the resistors and caps - which has already been done for you in the case of your Merlins.
M
mpw
Guest
here is Bobby Palkovic's response regarding rhe zobel ( RC ) n/w :-
===========================================================
an rc network is a high frequency filter for rfi and emi. perfect for big cities or near power lines. it is also a 10 ohm load for an un-terminated amp or one that does not have an output zobel.
all speakers are open circuits and become more of one the higher they go in frequency. so unless the amp used is terminated with a hf load (zobel) or the speakers are, the amp sounds strained and confused because it is ringing in the high frequencies. some amps, less than 2% are terminated from the factory but the vast majority are not.
we offer an outboard rc because we do not know if the amps being used are terminated or not. if they are do not use my rc and if they are not use it.
you simply find out from the amp manufacturer if your amp is terminated or not. makes a very big difference in most cases in less strained and more natural fleshed out sound.
duelund caps are copper foil. they are very expensive $300 each. copper foil caps are very hard to make and seal. but they have huge benefits in sound because they sound wider in bandwidth, clearer and more continuous.
how do you like yours?
the aluminum foil ones sound a little more present and not as extended in the extremes.
b
=================================================================
===========================================================
an rc network is a high frequency filter for rfi and emi. perfect for big cities or near power lines. it is also a 10 ohm load for an un-terminated amp or one that does not have an output zobel.
all speakers are open circuits and become more of one the higher they go in frequency. so unless the amp used is terminated with a hf load (zobel) or the speakers are, the amp sounds strained and confused because it is ringing in the high frequencies. some amps, less than 2% are terminated from the factory but the vast majority are not.
we offer an outboard rc because we do not know if the amps being used are terminated or not. if they are do not use my rc and if they are not use it.
you simply find out from the amp manufacturer if your amp is terminated or not. makes a very big difference in most cases in less strained and more natural fleshed out sound.
duelund caps are copper foil. they are very expensive $300 each. copper foil caps are very hard to make and seal. but they have huge benefits in sound because they sound wider in bandwidth, clearer and more continuous.
how do you like yours?
the aluminum foil ones sound a little more present and not as extended in the extremes.
b
=================================================================
Adding an external zobel if the woofer does not have one could lower the impedance of the cross-over a bit due to a parallel RC to the woofer. This could alter the cross-over point and can cause filter phase issues and probably a notch at the cross-over region.
If a speaker does not have a zobel then the impedance at the cross-over freq of the woofer is considered for the filter design. If it have one, the then the flat impedance (reduced due to the parallel network) will be used to design the cross-over.
If a speaker does not have a zobel then the impedance at the cross-over freq of the woofer is considered for the filter design. If it have one, the then the flat impedance (reduced due to the parallel network) will be used to design the cross-over.
M
mpw
Guest
today we had an emotiva power amp + oppo player + peachtree amp + dac over at home for trying out on the Merlin TSM.
The speaker cables were Mogami's.
few tracks played which i remember ;-
Mark knopfler
Fleetwood mac
Jack Johnson
Mary Black
Meatloaf - on the Naims
Geroge Baker
some more..i dont get tracks now..
The Merlins played very well with the solid state power amp of the emotiva while the peachtree did well if you like a warmish rounded sound.
The important thing for me is that the Merlins were able to reflect the amp and source played and i remember LC's words that the Merlins are like a mirror. The rest of the chain is quite easily brought to focus.
The emotiva amp was more powerful than my naim nait 5i and it did deliver more bandwidth ( especially towards the latter half of the session when the power amp was sufficiently warmed up ).
It is important to note that the power amp was brought home that means the power circuitry was discharged and it would take a while to charge up and open up. High power amps would need atleast an hour to warm up once dis-connected from their speakers.
There are things that smaller amps do very well.. and there are things that more powerful amps do well..and the question is what floats your boat ?
I now know ( validated ) that the Merlin TSM is capable of more powerful amps as well. Ideally power must be complimented with panache and nuance.. something which a good integrated can do.
I can say.. that if i had the money all over again.. the Merlin TSM would be my choice again and thats as high a compliment i can give in this short audio journey of mine.
Are there better speakers in the world than the Merlin TSM ? - depends on your taste... but for similar money.. these are very high up there.
Am i contemplating an amp change ?
No.
Would i like to hear a tube amp on the Merlin ?
Yes.. i would.. and i hope to get lucky someday.
Today i got lucky to hear a different amp in my setup and in my room so sharing the experience.
In my own setup i got to feel 3 amps today.. the emotiva, peachtree and the naim nait 5i.
For a person who needs to setup his / her rig.. its important to realize that one needs the chain to reflect ones preference in music.
The Merlin mirror magic certainly is a start with the level of transparency and truthfulness it beings out.
regards
mpw
The speaker cables were Mogami's.
few tracks played which i remember ;-
Mark knopfler
Fleetwood mac
Jack Johnson
Mary Black
Meatloaf - on the Naims
Geroge Baker
some more..i dont get tracks now..
The Merlins played very well with the solid state power amp of the emotiva while the peachtree did well if you like a warmish rounded sound.
The important thing for me is that the Merlins were able to reflect the amp and source played and i remember LC's words that the Merlins are like a mirror. The rest of the chain is quite easily brought to focus.
The emotiva amp was more powerful than my naim nait 5i and it did deliver more bandwidth ( especially towards the latter half of the session when the power amp was sufficiently warmed up ).
It is important to note that the power amp was brought home that means the power circuitry was discharged and it would take a while to charge up and open up. High power amps would need atleast an hour to warm up once dis-connected from their speakers.
There are things that smaller amps do very well.. and there are things that more powerful amps do well..and the question is what floats your boat ?
I now know ( validated ) that the Merlin TSM is capable of more powerful amps as well. Ideally power must be complimented with panache and nuance.. something which a good integrated can do.
I can say.. that if i had the money all over again.. the Merlin TSM would be my choice again and thats as high a compliment i can give in this short audio journey of mine.
Are there better speakers in the world than the Merlin TSM ? - depends on your taste... but for similar money.. these are very high up there.
Am i contemplating an amp change ?
No.
Would i like to hear a tube amp on the Merlin ?
Yes.. i would.. and i hope to get lucky someday.
Today i got lucky to hear a different amp in my setup and in my room so sharing the experience.
In my own setup i got to feel 3 amps today.. the emotiva, peachtree and the naim nait 5i.
For a person who needs to setup his / her rig.. its important to realize that one needs the chain to reflect ones preference in music.
The Merlin mirror magic certainly is a start with the level of transparency and truthfulness it beings out.
regards
mpw
Last edited by a moderator:
M
mpw
Guest
OK.. got to hear the TSM MME with Jolida integrated amp.. i think its the Jolida 502CRC
thanks so much.. i wanted to hear the merlins with a tube amp... as my listening experiences with tubes is rather limited.
in the bargain i got to hear a meridian dac as well..
thanks for the music too !!!
was a different experience than the naim setup.. ..i mean different in a different way and not a bad one.
)
mpw
thanks so much.. i wanted to hear the merlins with a tube amp... as my listening experiences with tubes is rather limited.
in the bargain i got to hear a meridian dac as well..
thanks for the music too !!!
was a different experience than the naim setup.. ..i mean different in a different way and not a bad one.
)mpw
M
mpw
Guest
ajitelsy,
my setup pics can be found earlier on this thread.
i was penning down my visit to another FM's place.
regards
mpw
Wharfedale Linton Heritage Speakers in Walnut finish at a Special Offer Price. BUY now before the price increase.
Similar threads
