My HT room acoustic treatment - Need advice

sash

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Hi friends,
So i'm converting an existing room into a dedicated HT room.
The room is about 15 feet long and 13 feet wide. I have the Magnat 1000 speaker set, without the sub. Planning to buy a sub this month.
I'm not much into music and this room will be primarily for movies and maybe to take some meeting calls when i work from home. My main problem is reverberations - even clap echoes are noticeable, so you can imagine sound from speakers.
I have gone through many such threads here mainly Santosh's HT building story.
I have some questions:
1. I'm planning to use rigid fiberglass for sound absorption.
2. Should i go for boards from manufacturers like Anutone? Or will a plywood suffice - i mean plywood that is stuffed with fibreglass, is that a bad idea? I have gone through Ethan Winer's plans here Build a Better Bass Trap and here http://www.ethanwiner.com/BTPlans.gif
3. How about a perforated plywood with airgap? Say perforated plywood, then rigid fibreglass board packed inside tissue/cloth so that it doesn't spill out of the perforations. This has an interesting experiment http://www.ewpa.com/archive/2010/june/paper_422.pdf
4. What about airgap? Should the airgap be between the panel and fiberglass or between fiberglass and the wall?
5. Most threads on the topic seem to be from 2 years ago. Is there something you guys would have done differently now?
6. Any new manufacturers of acoustic boards that you would recommend.
I'm a newbie at this and would be grateful for any suggestions from the experts here.
 
Hi Sash,

Recently i did acoustic treatment for my HT room. I went ahead with perforated plywood with glasswool backing. Initially thought about doing with anutone boards but their sales response to small setups was poor. So went with plywood and glasswool for walls and Saint Gobain gypton-fultone tiles for ceiling (backed with glasswool).

Thanks,
Purna
 
Hi Purna,
I looked at your setup and i'm almost at the same situation now that you were when you setup your HT. I'm also planning to go for Epson 6000 (or 6100).
Now about acoustics.
Can you give me more details?
Like what kind of fibreglass did you use? The fluffy glasswool or the more rigid slabs? How do you ensure the fibreglass doesn't come out of perforated ply through the holes?
What about the airgap between wall and panel? How is this done?
Are there pictures of your room that you can share?
Thanks a lot for taking the time to reply.
 
Hi Purna - sorry i wrote before seeing your entire HT setup thread. Awesome setup you have there - just plain awesome.
Have you covered the perforated ply with fabric? The vertical pillar like bars look awesome too. I'll show these to my carpenter.
But please do let me know what you did about securing the glasswool.
 
Hi Purna - sorry i wrote before seeing your entire HT setup thread. Awesome setup you have there - just plain awesome.
Have you covered the perforated ply with fabric? The vertical pillar like bars look awesome too. I'll show these to my carpenter.
But please do let me know what you did about securing the glasswool.

The glasswool was covered with very thin cloth before placing the plywood. Yes, perforated plywood was covered with fabric.
 
Sash,

Indeed to cover the plywood with fabric is a must and also do consider to use thin yellow spunch after the plywood to get a soft feel of the walled fabric.

The fabric ideally should be such that air or sunlight should be able to pass, while some of them feel that this is not necessary.

V.

Hi Purna -
Have you covered the perforated ply with fabric?
 
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Acoustic treatments have 2 basic purpose

1. to make the system sound better
2. not to disturb neighbors...

Coincidentally both are inversely proportional.....

If too much sound absorbency then room goes dead... sound wont be great...
too less you will have echo...

I suggest go to some system integrator for help.....
 
Hi sash,
If ur looking acoustic boards, U can get wood wool boards 2x4 similar to ur anu tone boards, make framing , fill in glass wool and cover it with these boards , eaither directly paste fabric or stretch or have good carpenter they can fix it for u.. will work out for you...
Contact : patel - 9448049966 / 9686230649 bangalore
 
For walled glass wool, the other option is steel wires before covering with holed plywood.

V.

The glasswool was covered with very thin cloth before placing the plywood. Yes, perforated plywood was covered with fabric.
 
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Sorry friends, i haven't logged on in a while, was busy getting the acoustic treatment done :).
Purna, Vinay - thanks a lot for your suggestions. Vinay, i have read almost all of your posts on this subject from the other threads and have learnt a lot from them - thanks.
Finally the solutions i took/taking are the following:
1. I decided not to treat the entire room, the plan was to get the panels done and then screw them at vantage points ( i can experiment with placement). To see why i convinced myself that partial treatment was sufficient for my modest needs (apart from the obvious cost factor), see this great before/after video
Acoustic panels effect: cheap room treatment - YouTube
2. Decided that this will be mostly broadband absorbers but also to install low freq absorbers at the corners. The plan would be similar to this:
Acoustics Forum • View topic - Studiotips Corner Absorber
Also lookd at these:
Acoustics Forum • View topic - Studiotips SuperChunk
and
Acoustics Forum • View topic - Corner Absorption Comparision test
3. I used 2 inch thick fiberglass boards of 48 kg/m3 density from Twiga. Bought them from Himal supplies in Bangalore (thanks Santosh for posting their contact number on one of your threads. For easy ref the number is 080-26665441
4. One point to note is that 48 kg/m3 fiberglass boards are not really that flaky and one needn't worry too much about the dust getting all out. This is just my observation but please do wear protection (mask etc - i did). Use gloves while handling as it can get itchy.
5. i made huge plywood frames of 4 ft wide, 6 ft high, 2.5 inch deep and put supporting planks every 2 feet in the height section. So that let me mount fiberglass boards of 2 ft x 4 ft one above the other - supporting planks provide ..well support.
6. I wrapped the fiberglass with yellow colored cushion foam half inch thick and a very low 23 density (don't know the unit). Low density should let sound pass through. This is available in all mattress/furnishing shops. You get it in 3 ft x 6 ft dimensions. Used 2 to wrap one fiberglass board and glued the two using Fevicol 505 adhesive (it seems this adhesive is purpose built for foams). Used very little glue and used it to bind the two pieces of foam together. This meant the fiberglass boards were all sealed up and no chance of anything leaking out.
7. The frames have beadings (just a very thin flat wood piece) that run the entire length of the frame to ensure the mounted fiberglass stays put inside. The beadings are mounted on the front of the frame and after mounting the fiberglass, on the back of the frame as well to keep the fiberglass boards in place.
8. The frame was now ready to be wrapped in good (and not so good) fabric. I bought some very good looking jute finish (not jute, it's just the finish) fabric to cover the front and some kachcha fabric (they call it kora cloth) to wrap the back side. The good fabric cost me Rs 470 per meter and the kachcha Rs 50 per meter. The meter is the length, the breadth is fixed and is called "panna". One must be very careful with the breadth. It should be enough to wrap the breadth of your panels - otherwise you end up wasting a lot of cloth. Most good fabric have a width of 54 inch which is not ideal but i could manage to cover 4 feet wide panel (plus the 2.5 inch depth of the panel) using some help that i will describe next. The kachcha cloth is used to wrap the backside of the frame. This is not essential but i thought this will be an additional layer of protection and would help make the panel look as "professional" as possible.
9. The corner traps are triangular and mounted with 2 layers of fiberglass (4 inch thick total) using the method described in the link posted above. It has an airgap behind the fiberglass which is sealed in all directions, behind by the wall, top/bottom by plywood. None of my panels have plywood face. Plywood is apparently good for bass traps but since im not covering all walls, didnt want to lose any mid/high absorption in whatever portion i do cover. It seems plywood reflects most high freq.
10. Totally i got done, 3 panels of 4ft x 6ft (2 for the back wall and one for the side wall, other side wall has a window and is covered with very thick curtain), 2 corner traps of 2ft x 6 ft for back corners and 2 corner traps of 2 ft x 4 ft for front wall behind the tower speakers.
11. I used the services of a very skilled carpenter. Without his real world experience this would never be where it is given my "only theoretical expertise". He took 2 days to complete the wood work and i paid him Rs 2500 that he asked for.
12. I wrapped the fiberglass with the yellow foam myself. I initially expected fiberglass dust/flakes to be a problem but that was never the case, it was the terrible smell of the foam adhesive. This is not something that you can take if you aren't used to it - i struggled for 2 days after it was over. If you know someone who works with this on a daily basis (sofa/seat makers etc) it might make sense to just leave it to them. But then again, i'm being cruel :sad:
13. I used the services of a cloth wrapping expert. He was recommended by the cloth shop and i initially hesitated thinking i might be able to do it myself. But boy am i glad i used him. He was a god send. I would never be able to do what he did and he used every last mm of the fabric (note that the width of the cloth was only slightly larger than the width of my panel) and did a fantastic job. Learnt a lot from this guy and am going to use him for carpet laying as well - he is a master-of-many skills i hear and i don't have any reasons to doubt. He is in Mysore but in case someone wants to use him, his number is 9035278874.
14. In the end, i now have the panels up and the results are VERY impressive to even my inexperienced ears. The room is not boomy at all now and the sound is so much more coherent.
15. I plan to install Armstrong optra ceiling tiles for the false ceiling. It comes in black color and has a stated NRC of .95. I was quoted a price of around Rs 400 or so for a tile of 2 ft x 2 ft, so should come to around Rs 100/sq ft. I'm buying this from Armstrong main dealer (or is it a branch of Armstrong itself) in Bangalore. They are located opposite Surana college near South end circle, Jayanagar.
16. In the next month or so, i should have both the ceiling and carpet done. For carpet i'm thinking i'll put a half inch thick thermofoam (the black thing you get in foam shops). I hear this is good but please let me know if you have any other ideas.
I will post pics shortly. Have some in my cellphone that i plan to post here.
Please let me know if you think i should do anything else.
Almost all ideas here were taken mainly from this forum and from few other sites.
Thanks Santosh, Vinay, Purna - your work has been an inspiration to get this started.
 
The next question i have is - how do i sound proof my door? Any ideas? The door i now have is a thin teak one with ample space in the sides and bottom to allow sound to pass through. Do you think it is best to replace this one? With what?
Can i try and work on it to make it stop sound? How?
 
Hi Pandu, i went through your thread and yes surprisingly we have both done almost the same things.
I haven't treated the wall behind the speakers yet - though i do have corner traps on the front corners. Do you think this will be super important?
I don't want to do more on wall paneling until the ceiling and carpets are in place and i listen to the difference and if i think more is required.
Also i found a manufacturer that makes acoustic foams Sheela Group world's largest maker of foam, mattress, polyurethane foam
Anything else i do, i want to use this. I have emailed them asking for technical details and their dealer in Bangalore. If this is economical i want to use it on few walls in other parts of my home too.
I have suddenly started noticing that in other parts of my home, voices sound shriller, dropped plates ring too loud etc.
I think we have to dampen sounds in other parts of the home too but the wife thinks i have gone nuts (after this room treatment madness) :)
 
Hi Pandu, i went through your thread and yes surprisingly we have both done almost the same things.
I haven't treated the wall behind the speakers yet - though i do have corner traps on the front corners. Do you think this will be super important?
I don't want to do more on wall paneling until the ceiling and carpets are in place and i listen to the difference and if i think more is required.
Also i found a manufacturer that makes acoustic foams Sheela Group world's largest maker of foam, mattress, polyurethane foam
Anything else i do, i want to use this. I have emailed them asking for technical details and their dealer in Bangalore. If this is economical i want to use it on few walls in other parts of my home too.
I have suddenly started noticing that in other parts of my home, voices sound shriller, dropped plates ring too loud etc.
I think we have to dampen sounds in other parts of the home too but the wife thinks i have gone nuts (after this room treatment madness) :)

In my opinion Acoustic foam is not worth the money. Rockwool and Glasswool do the job best.
Also in my opinion, Corner traps are the first and foremost things needed in sound treatment. Next come first reflection points. And the rest is your choice. I did the backwall, front wall, side walls and ceiling for the first reflection points. I am not sure which are doing their job best.

I dont understand what you mean by other parts of the home. Is your theater part of a big hall where in seating, dining and kitchen is. If so placing furniture here and there should take care of it.



Thanks
 
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No - what i meant was that sound damping is important in other places as well (other than your HT). Ex: class rooms, conf rooms. I observe that my home has a lot of parallel walls which amplifies sounds and causes a lot of reverberations. For example if a steel plate is dropped in the dining area, it rings too loud and too long. Most of this can be damped by using a lot of furniture but i figured i could use some foams as well.
 
Hi Purna - sorry i wrote before seeing your entire HT setup thread. Awesome setup you have there - just plain awesome.
Have you covered the perforated ply with fabric? The vertical pillar like bars look awesome too. I'll show these to my carpenter.
But please do let me know what you did about securing the glasswool.

Can I have link to both of your setups ?


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