My intro and request for guidance and advice

[oldmonk]

Hello everyone,
Hope you are all keeping healthy and happy.
I thought I should share an update, as this thread is three pages and you have generously shared your time and suggestions.

To make a long story short:
i sold the Primare and Tritons and am now using a Hegel H300 and a pair of Adam Audio Pencil mk3.
i have my music on a HDD playing through Swara DAC (Acoustic Portrait) using Runeaudio.
The cable upgrades, positioning, spikes, power and other very practical suggestions I got from you all have helped. Thank you again.

I now have the best sound I ever had (in my home). Long enjoyable listening sessions, No listening fatigue and a great feeling getting reacquainted with my music collection. Some very poorly recorded or very compressed music does sound bad (as it should?) But overall, I am very happy.

looking back, I this is what I think I learned:
Amp and speaker matching is a matter of luck, though some knowledge of technicalities involved can help shortlist better- (Sensitivity, output Power, impedance matching etc)
I learnt Auditioning and listening for myself in my listening space, (alone) is the best way to decide (though this is rarely practical, unfortunately).
i learnt if I am careful but take calculated risks, it’s possible to get fantastic value from preowned audio components. There are far more honest people than dishonest ones around.
I learnt I love the ease and convenience of browsing through my music collection and playback using my iPad or phone.
I learnt short signal paths are simpler and good.
I learnt Raspberry Pi based music playback can be with very good audio quality. I am glad I took a leap of faith even though I am not a computer or electronics expert.
I am grateful for the music, everyday.

Thank you for reading and your patience.

A pic or 2 will speak a 1000 words

 

[vineetrad]

Hello everyone,
Hope you are all keeping healthy and happy.
I thought I should share an update, as this thread is three pages and you have generously shared your time and suggestions.

To make a long story short:
i sold the Primare and Tritons and am now using a Hegel H300 and a pair of Adam Audio Pencil mk3.
i have my music on a HDD playing through Swara DAC (Acoustic Portrait) using Runeaudio.
The cable upgrades, positioning, spikes, power and other very practical suggestions I got from you all have helped. Thank you again.

I now have the best sound I ever had (in my home). Long enjoyable listening sessions, No listening fatigue and a great feeling getting reacquainted with my music collection. Some very poorly recorded or very compressed music does sound bad (as it should?) But overall, I am very happy.

looking back, I this is what I think I learned:
Amp and speaker matching is a matter of luck, though some knowledge of technicalities involved can help shortlist better- (Sensitivity, output Power, impedance matching etc)
I learnt Auditioning and listening for myself in my listening space, (alone) is the best way to decide (though this is rarely practical, unfortunately).
i learnt if I am careful but take calculated risks, it’s possible to get fantastic value from preowned audio components. There are far more honest people than dishonest ones around.
I learnt I love the ease and convenience of browsing through my music collection and playback using my iPad or phone.
I learnt short signal paths are simpler and good.
I learnt Raspberry Pi based music playback can be with very good audio quality. I am glad I took a leap of faith even though I am not a computer or electronics expert.
I am grateful for the music, everyday.

Thank you for reading and your patience.

See, I told you your Adams needed some serious quality amplification. Glad to see that the Hegel H300 suggestion worked out for you.

I have the H360 and the Hegel 3xx are definitely good!

Enjoy the music

 

[Analogous]

See, I told you your Adams needed some serious quality amplification. Glad to see that the Hegel H300 suggestion worked out for you.

I have the H360 and the Hegel 3xx are definitely good!

Enjoy the music

Yes, you told me that! Thank you

A pic or 2 will speak a 1000 words

Sorry, I didn’t mean to be long winded. Here is a picture

See, I told you your Adams needed some serious quality amplification. Glad to see that the Hegel H300 suggestion worked out for you.

I have the H360 and the Hegel 3xx are definitely good!

Enjoy the music

Vineetrad, the abundant power of the Hegel 300 makes the Adams dance nicely. But I am still mystified how the 50wpc Naim 5i sounds so good driving the Adams. That’s probably a topic for a different thread.

 

[raghupb]

Sorry, I didn’t mean to be long winded. Here is a picture

Those are fat crayons, I can't imagine them as pencils
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[oldmonk]

Sorry, I didn’t mean to be long winded. Here is a picture

Thank you for the picture...

your setup looks nice and compact..

How do you like the performance of the Swara DAC ?

A few more lines on it would be good - maybe a separate thread.

Can one play internet radio on it ?

 

[Analogous]

Those are fat crayons, I can't imagine them as pencils
Cheers,
Raghu

German humor, mark3

Thank you for the picture...

your setup looks nice and compact..

How do you like the performance of the Swara DAC ?

A few more lines on it would be good - maybe a separate thread.

Can one play internet radio on it ?

Hi Old Monk,
Thanks.
I like the Swara DAC very much. My sense is I would need to spend a lot more to find small improvements over this.
i have written about this DAC briefly in another thread on HFV dedicated to Indian Hifi (or Audio) manufacturers. I think there are some reviews by forum members too.
You can play internet radio on it and I have about 5 or 6 stations that I listen to saved for quick access...With a USB WiFi dongle the Swara DAC works fine wirelessly (after the initial wired setup)
Since it’s primarily a DAC and then a Streamer, it has only analogue outputs. If you are looking for a streamer with digital output then Allo Digione Signature might be a better (less elegant?) choice. I recently got a Allo to try the inbuilt DAC in the Hegel. (Still figuring out the differences and which one I prefer)
As they are based on Raspberry pi, we can choose the OS and the playback software we wish. Runeaudio comes preloaded on the Swara DAC but we can swap to other player- interfaces. Volumio comes preloaded on the Allo and there are others with some different features and very active developer communities too.

 

[oldmonk]

AP products seem to have a good power supply..

I like that they don't use a wall wart

 

[Analogous]

AP products seem to have a good power supply..

I like that they don't use a wall wart

Yes, The Swara DAC has the power supply inside the cabinet and looks neat too. Shiva the designer and founder of AP told me the main work he put into this was in ensuring good quality power to minimise noise. I don’t know the technical details of this.

The Allo digione signature has a clean and dirty board each with separate power supplies and they sell a separate power unit costing 8000.” (In addition to the Allo digione Signature this brings the cost up between 25-30k)
Swara DAC is 23k shipping included

Both use the same Raspi (and possibly the DAC HAT too?)
Shyam, (FM), was my friend and guide with the Allo Signature set up and may be willing to add more technical insights if anyone has specific questions.

 

[oldmonk]

clean and dirty board each with separate power supplies and they sell a separate power unit costing 8000.”

Personally I don't like this type of marketing..

But hey..I don't form all of the market

 

[raghupb]

<snip>
The Allo digione signature has a clean and dirty board each with separate power supplies and they sell a separate power unit costing 8000.” (In addition to the Allo digione Signature this brings the cost up between 25-30k)
Swara DAC is 23k shipping included
<snip>

Dual PS is cumbersome if one wants a simple solution.
But then in such kinda budget offerings, one if free to choose their poison or elixir step-wise.
I did look at the internals of Allo's Shanti LPS.
They have a robust dual-tap transformer and associated circuitry (with a boat load of caps, I should say).
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[Analogous]

Old Monk,
I am sorry if I over spoke while replying to your comment/query.
If I may clarify: I have no financial dealings with Allo or AP other than buying their products at full cost. I am not paid to promote anything nor do I get any concessions.

Dual PS is cumbersome if one wants a simple solution.
But then in such kinda budget offerings, one if free to choose their poison or elixir step-wise.
I did look at the internals of Allo's Shanti LPS.
They have a robust dual-tap transformer and associated circuitry (with a boat load of caps, I should say).
Cheers,
Raghu

Allo Shanti is the name I was trying to recall! Thanks Raghupb.
My technical knowledge on how this is done is close to zero.
I remember someone mentioning they used a power bank with the Allo (used to recharge phones on the go) as the clean power source with good results.

Clean power seems to be desirable in home audio. Naim, PS Audio have some eye wateringly priced products.
Trying to educate myself by reading up on the subject and with some thoughtful suggestions from FMs Bornfi and Prabhusom, I understand it’s possible to get this using balanced isolation transformers. Waiting to get one soon

Personally I don't like this type of marketing..

But hey..I don't form all of the market

I was trying to locate the old thread discussing and reviewing the Raspi based DACs and Sears DAC to share with you, but I found you have been discussing these a while.
I was trying to sell you a couch!

 

[firearm12]

I have used batteries as well as allo shatni when i had my digione signature. I have to say batteries still win the war on clean side.

 

[Analogous]

I have used batteries as well as allo shatni when i had my digione signature. I have to say batteries still win the war on clean side.

Hi Firearm12,
good to see you join the discussion! You were one of the early adopters (with technical know how)
But I still remember seeing Darko’s review of the Allo signature where the battery pack caught fire!

BTW, other than these two are there any other Indian companies making DAC-Streamers of good quality?

 

[oldmonk]

Old Monk,
I am sorry if I over spoke while replying to your comment/query.
If I may clarify: I have no financial dealings with Allo or AP other than buying their products at full cost. I am not paid to promote anything nor do I get any concessions.

why so serious ?

shatni

looks like a new product launch...

is this available at HPZ ??

 

[firearm12]

looks like a new product launch...

is this available at HPZ ??

Yes available at headphoneone

 

[oldmonk]

Allo Shanti is the name I was trying to recall! Thanks Raghupb.
My technical knowledge on how this is done is close to zero.
I remember someone mentioning they used a power bank with the Allo (used to recharge phones on the go) as the clean power source with good results.

Clean power seems to be desirable in home audio. Naim, PS Audio have some eye wateringly priced products.
Trying to educate myself by reading up on the subject and with some thoughtful suggestions from FMs Bornfi and Prabhusom, I understand it’s possible to get this using balanced isolation transformers. Waiting to get one soon

IMO - dont go down that road...

( except if you have some money to spend... thats another matter )

A well designed power supply like those in AP products or others are good enough..

Thats what i was alluding to in my earlier post where i mentioned i liked AP products like the Swara DAC and Swara Headphone amp because of their beefy power supply - no add ons - no gimmicks...no khich khich..

My main grouse is that the manufacturing cost of the original power supply electronics Vs the "updated" power supply isnt much and from the POV of the ecology - better to go for the best power supply at the start instead of upgrades which cost more metal / more plastic and more rare earth metals.. which we have to mine the earth for.

I know many folks from UK who dont like the added PS and prefer the original PS in the amp or streamer ( because they are built to a high standards right at the outset )

But hey - this is audio - so for every 1 dislike there will be 1 like - so to each his / her own poison ( rum ).

Yes available at headphoneone

Hmmm... i wonder if there will be a Q...

 

[raghupb]

Allo Shanti is the name I was trying to recall! Thanks Raghupb.
My technical knowledge on how this is done is close to zero.
I remember someone mentioning they used a power bank with the Allo (used to recharge phones on the go) as the clean power source with good results.

Clean power seems to be desirable in home audio. Naim, PS Audio have some eye wateringly priced products.
Trying to educate myself by reading up on the subject and with some thoughtful suggestions from FMs Bornfi and Prabhusom, I understand it’s possible to get this using balanced isolation transformers. Waiting to get one soon

Take it as a blessing. Ignorance is bliss. As an EE I can tell you, sometimes knowledge is a curse.
Watch The Hans Beekhuyzen Channel on YouTube - Audio Hygiene series.
Nicely explained.

There are many aspects to PS design, two most important are:
- how to extract low noise output from the what's coming from the wall
- how to tackle stray EMI and not pollute the component's ground with noise

Bulky PS sections attempt to handle these two to varying degrees.
A decent power cable will take care of outward leakage to an extant, but will still supply what's there at the wall.
The input is then stepped down using a transformer or an SMPS and cleaned up according to the power and cost budget.
ICs that are shielded also help, in the sense they prevent inward leakage.

All of this mitigates the probability of elevated ground noise, does not eliminate it though.
Which is enough in most user systems.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[firearm12]

Power supply is single most important thing imo. Inside most of the equipment, power supply takes bulk of space. Naim has external power supplies which cost even more than their equipment. For digital equipment it can be even more important as voltages are very small and benefit from clean power. An improved power supply will always lead to improved sound quality.

 

[raghupb]

Power supply is single most important thing imo. Inside most of the equipment, power supply takes bulk of space. Naim has external power supplies which cost even more than their equipment. For digital equipment it can be even more important as voltages are very small and benefit from clean power. An improved power supply will always lead to improved sound quality.

Probably the reason why there is a market segment for non-OEM external PS units.
Some do a good job actually, some may be just fluff.
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[Weathered]

In a world of expensive LPS units, I found Shanti to be reasonably priced, having followed it's development closely on diyaudio forum. There could be others who are having better price/performance ratio but i picked it as a natural companion to an Allo product.