Odyssey Cyclops or Khartago with active pre-amp?

[milestoneseeker]

Hi All,

I have been reading about Odyssey's Cyclops stereo integrated amp as well as the Khartago power amp.

As I understand, Cyclops is a Khartago amp with a passive pre-amp. Now I have done some reading to further understand passive vs. active pre-amp with their respective pros and cons. As usual, I have found different school of thoughts. Net-net, I have found good reviews of passive pre-amp too and Cyclops integrated amp comes highly recommended. However, I am keen to know from members on HFV on their thoughts on these two amps including the implementation of the passive pre-amp.

One can also always buy the Cyclops and then add the Candela tube pre-amp later on to manage the budget better.

Thoughts welcome.

 

[arj]

passive preamps are a hit or a miss depending on the gain of the system,,where it works it works exremely well with fantastic microdynamics..far more than an active can and where it does not it does the Opposite !

Ideally for a passive pre, your source should have enough drive to manage the power amp..
IMHO if you are using your sony BDP you may need an active pre.

 

[milestoneseeker]

Then which sources typically have high enough gain to justify non-usage of an active preamp? I would end up putting in a DAC and my Sony BDP will be effectively only a transport.

 

[milestoneseeker]

Do we have anyone on this forum who can share his/her experience on Cyclops? The price of Cyclops makes it extremely appealing, particularly when I see rest of integrated amps' pricing

As an alternative, any view to Peachtree Nova125 with Maggies 1.7?

 

[arj]

my guess is you are far better of with the cyclops than the peachtree. maggies need good power and lots of it.

 

[ranjeetrain]

MSS, what is your source? Does it have variable out/volume control?

If it does try going with Khartago without a pre. I wanted to suggest you this but this is not a popular route so I held back.

Agree with Arj, don't even think about Peachtree Nova for Maggies. Maggies are amongst the most hungry speakers.

 

[milestoneseeker]

thanks @ arj. Let's see if I can get an audition of Cyclops at ARN. Everything else that I have read for 1.7s point to rather expensive amps (Bryston 4BSST, Jeff Rowland etc) and I have no intention of spending twice the speakers for amplification.

 

[milestoneseeker]

MSS, what is your source? Does it have variable out/volume control?

If it does try going with Khartago without a pre. I wanted to suggest you this but this is not a popular route so I held back.

Agree with Arj, don't even think about Peachtree Nova for Maggies. Maggies are amongst the most hungry speakers.

My source "would be" a DAC. Initially, for me, DAC was just that - a DAC, till I went down this path of passive pre-amps or source directly into power amp. So now I need to look at DACs with volume control. However, all along I have read of how pre-amps "shape" the signature so now suddenly all that signature management reduced to volume control is very intriguing!

Any recommendations for DAC with volume control? From what I have read, I have not got very flattering reviews of such DACs and folks are always recommending an active pre-amp with a DAC.

It is bloody confusing - all this arm chair hifi analysis with no demos.

 

[ranjeetrain]

My source "would be" a DAC. Initially, for me, DAC was just that - a DAC, till I went down this path of passive pre-amps or source directly into power amp. So now I need to look at DACs with volume control. However, all along I have read of how pre-amps "shape" the signature so now suddenly all that signature management reduced to volume control is very intriguing!

Any recommendations for DAC with volume control? From what I have read, I have not got very flattering reviews of such DACs and folks are always recommending an active pre-amp with a DAC.

It is bloody confusing - all this arm chair hifi analysis with no demos.

These days a lot DACs have volume control. You just need to freeze a price point to narrow it down to some candidates.

 

[arj]

My source "would be" a DAC. Initially, for me, DAC was just that - a DAC, till I went down this path of passive pre-amps or source directly into power amp. So now I need to look at DACs with volume control. However, all along I have read of how pre-amps "shape" the signature so now suddenly all that signature management reduced to volume control is very intriguing!

Any recommendations for DAC with volume control? From what I have read, I have not got very flattering reviews of such DACs and folks are always recommending an active pre-amp with a DAC.

It is bloody confusing - all this arm chair hifi analysis with no demos.

check if its a Digital vol control or an analogue one..with most digital you lose on resolution as you reduce the volume. very few have been able to get that right

 

[milestoneseeker]

Yup, read the bit about digital vs analog control

 

[venk61176]

not sure about magnepan 1.7 matching. But look at wyred4sound st pre/power amplifiers or audio gd pre and master/emotiva power amps


Wyred4sound st series had lots of good reviews.

 

[reignofchaos]

I don't think a wyred 4 sound class d amp has any hope of sounding good with a Maggie. You need at least 150-250 watt of clean power with high current capabilities to be able to do justice to them.

 

[asliarun]

I don't think a wyred 4 sound class d amp has any hope of sounding good with a Maggie. You need at least 150-250 watt of clean power with high current capabilities to be able to do justice to them.

Hypex ncore??

 

[reignofchaos]

Hypex ncore??

Might be a bit better. I once heard a 1.7 with nuforce monos and it sounded completely lifeless. Very unlike what a maggie sounds with good amplification.

 

[milestoneseeker]

The thing I want to avoid is getting into Maggies and then paying through my nose for amplification. Yes, it needs clean power and I acknowledge that. Hence my question on Khartago as I presume it provide the necessary amount of current (and not just wattage) for the 1.7s. What I read in the past couple of threads sounds expensive

I started off by looking at Blumnehofer's Big Fun 17 with Trigon and that is going a tad beyond 4L. I was hopeful that Maggies + Khartago will retain it in 3L.

I am not getting a pretty picture

 

[reignofchaos]

A Stratos will work for sure. Whether a khartago will work - I'm really not sure YMMV.

 

[venk61176]

I think class d cannot drive hungry speakers is more of hype than fact. Being a class 'D' amplifier owner for years, I can vouch for it.

The only issue about class d is dryness of top end compared A/AB.

Wyred4sound ST series is one of the best(that doesn't mean I insist on buying it). I have done research myself for similar combinations many times dropped it due to room limitations.

References | Confessions of a Part-Time Audiophile - if I were you I would exactly go with ST pre and power from odyssey.

Audio-gd Master 10 with Magnepan MMG for 6Moons | Digital Audio Review by John Darko

 

[reignofchaos]

^^Have you heard it before recommending or is it just opinion based on reviews?

 

[Asit]

Looking at only the rms wattage for an amp is not the correct thing. It hides quite a lot of important facts, for example the instantaneous maximum current it can deliver. I still have a very old Harman Kardon amplifier of the 80s, its rms power rating is only 60 wpc into 8 Ohms, but it can deliver upto 38 Ampere of max instantaneous current. This amp has driven quite a few pairs of speakers effortlessly (my own speakers are very easy loads, but I am talking about other speakers). It's a very agile and lively amp, and still works pretty well.

Another important thing to look at is the minimum speaker load that the amp can drive stably. Khartago, I think is stable upto 2 Ohms. Some amps are stable even at 1 Ohm load. Lower the load, more difficult it is for the amp to drive and eventually it will clip harming itself and the twitters of the speakers.

Input sensitivity of the amp is also an important parameter to determine the absolute strength of the signal coming out of the amp into the speakers.

Now, Cyclops is a Khartago with a passive (attenuator based) pre-amp with input for only one source. In this case, the ratio of the input impedance of the amp to the output impedance of the source (a DAC or a CDP or whatever) should be a large number, at least 20 or so, the larger the better. In addition, the interconnect between the source and the pre-input (in this case, input into the Cyclops) should preferably be as short as possible with low capacitance.

I have heard the Cyclops in Kolkata in a FM's place. It's a very decent amplifier, and far outweighs its price. It has a decent amount of drive. If I remember correctly, it was driving a pair of speakers with 86/87 db sensitivity (Suman Jana's excellent Scanspeak based speakers) quite beautifully. The source was a CA 640c II (since then, Suman has upgraded his CDP to LM 215 CDP, but I have not heard this combination).

Regards.