elangoas
Well-Known Member
@elangoas - when can we expect an review of your new Taga daul Subs, many are eager to hear from ya
Thanks.. Sure.. Will try to share my experience this weekend...
Planning for Two Subwoofers, budget 50K Max - Suggestions please..
- Thread starter elangoas
- Start date
Thanks.. Sure.. Will try to share my experience this weekend...
elangoas
Well-Known Member
Hands on experience with dual (identical) subs without digital EQ in untreated room.
Note : This is my first hands on with dual subwoofers, never heard them or auditioned anywhere.. So take it with a pinch of salt.
Having discussed/read some articles on dual subwoofers, placement in the room & its benefits, it was time to experience it..
Rom Dimensions - 22 feet Long x 11 feet wide, thre were some openings in the living room
AVR : Onkyo TX - SR 603 (Non HDMI Receiver)
Source - HTPC
Connectivity - SPDIF (Co-axial out) from HTPC to Onkyo AVR.
Speakers : Klipsch RP 160M BS (Fronts), RP440c (Center), Sonodyne Avant LCR250 satellite (surrounds)
Sub placement : Midwall placement, One in middle of front wall (Front of listening position), one in the middle of back wall (Behind listening position). each sub was equidistant from the listening position. Placed about 20 cm from the wall behind the subwoofer.
Sub volume level & Delay: 40 - 50% volume on both subs, phase set to 0 on both of them. Crossover defeated. Approx distance entered in feet. There was no finer increments in the AVR. Just rounded feet distance.
Level calibration : This Onkyo AVR didn't emit the test tone at a fixed reference volume, but the test tone was variable with volume control.
On a volume scale of 0 - 99 in AVR, set the AVR to 70 on the volume & tried to level match all speakers to 80db using Android phone placed roughly at ear height (Microphone facing the ceiling) in the listening position. Don't have a SPL meter, so used smartphone and level matched 5 db more than required 75 db SPL from the listening position as smartphone microphone, may not give very accurate results.
All speakers set to SMALL in AVR and having 2 subs, wanted to set a slightly higher crossover for speakers. Hence set the crossover to 100Hz.
Stereo in 2.0 Vs 2.1 Vs 2.2 - 2.0 (Pure audio Mode - No subwoofer) Vs 2.1 (Stereo Mode - one sub) Vs 2.2 - (Stereo mode - both subs used)
- Played some familiar indian film music Tamil/Telugu/Hindi (FLAC/WAV) and tried togging between 2.0 Vs 2.1 Vs 2.2.
- 2.2 mode was very good with room full of rich bass with mids & high frequency sitting on top of it.
- In 2.1 mode (Subwoofer behind the listening position switched off), bass dropped in the listening position.
- In 2.0 mode, bass sounded lean from the BS speakers compared to 2.2
The more i listened, i was convinced that bass re-produced in 2.2 mode was very convincing.
Not even once, i felt the bass was bloated. The sub didn't punch the music hard, it juz did what was adequate.
Some tracks where i loved the quality of bass.
English - Hotel California - Ripping the BS of bass up to 100Hz, exposed some details of the track.. Heard it, but didn't pay attention.. Will check this.
Hindi - Swades - Yeh Jo Des Hai Tera
Hindi - Jaane Tu... Ya Jaane Na - Kabhi Kabhi Aditi
Tamil - Kadhalukku Mariyadhai - Ennai Thalatta Varuvala
Tamil - Agni Natchathiram - Ninnukori Varanam (fast song)
Movies
Initially, i tried to play movies that are not so thick in action, to try and feel the sub.
A Bugs Life - DTS Lossy Track - Falling of leaves in the opening scene, cutting the grain with stem and the heap of grains falling away just before the grasshoppers arrive are really a treat with the subs. makes very good impact.
Cars - DTS Lossy Track - Opening scene of the movies wher the cars whizz around the track was done extremely well. Could feel the speed of the sub was good.
Pearl Harbour - DTS - Lossy Tracks - Couldn't resist this one. Played the scene when Japanese start to attack pearl harbour, a good 20 min thick action scene.. Though the passing of planes was all good, the explosions didn't have a great impact. I felt that the sub was quick to finish the explosion than prolong it a bit.
Didn't get much time with movies.. The quality of the bass is very good for stereo and for movies too.. But in thick action scenes, the punch isn't hard. I will recheck my settings once again before i play some more movies with thick action.
Note : This is my first hands on with dual subwoofers, never heard them or auditioned anywhere.. So take it with a pinch of salt.
Having discussed/read some articles on dual subwoofers, placement in the room & its benefits, it was time to experience it..
Rom Dimensions - 22 feet Long x 11 feet wide, thre were some openings in the living room
AVR : Onkyo TX - SR 603 (Non HDMI Receiver)
Source - HTPC
Connectivity - SPDIF (Co-axial out) from HTPC to Onkyo AVR.
Speakers : Klipsch RP 160M BS (Fronts), RP440c (Center), Sonodyne Avant LCR250 satellite (surrounds)
Sub placement : Midwall placement, One in middle of front wall (Front of listening position), one in the middle of back wall (Behind listening position). each sub was equidistant from the listening position. Placed about 20 cm from the wall behind the subwoofer.
Sub volume level & Delay: 40 - 50% volume on both subs, phase set to 0 on both of them. Crossover defeated. Approx distance entered in feet. There was no finer increments in the AVR. Just rounded feet distance.
Level calibration : This Onkyo AVR didn't emit the test tone at a fixed reference volume, but the test tone was variable with volume control.
On a volume scale of 0 - 99 in AVR, set the AVR to 70 on the volume & tried to level match all speakers to 80db using Android phone placed roughly at ear height (Microphone facing the ceiling) in the listening position. Don't have a SPL meter, so used smartphone and level matched 5 db more than required 75 db SPL from the listening position as smartphone microphone, may not give very accurate results.
All speakers set to SMALL in AVR and having 2 subs, wanted to set a slightly higher crossover for speakers. Hence set the crossover to 100Hz.
Stereo in 2.0 Vs 2.1 Vs 2.2 - 2.0 (Pure audio Mode - No subwoofer) Vs 2.1 (Stereo Mode - one sub) Vs 2.2 - (Stereo mode - both subs used)
- Played some familiar indian film music Tamil/Telugu/Hindi (FLAC/WAV) and tried togging between 2.0 Vs 2.1 Vs 2.2.
- 2.2 mode was very good with room full of rich bass with mids & high frequency sitting on top of it.
- In 2.1 mode (Subwoofer behind the listening position switched off), bass dropped in the listening position.
- In 2.0 mode, bass sounded lean from the BS speakers compared to 2.2
The more i listened, i was convinced that bass re-produced in 2.2 mode was very convincing.
Not even once, i felt the bass was bloated. The sub didn't punch the music hard, it juz did what was adequate.
Some tracks where i loved the quality of bass.
English - Hotel California - Ripping the BS of bass up to 100Hz, exposed some details of the track.. Heard it, but didn't pay attention.. Will check this.
Hindi - Swades - Yeh Jo Des Hai Tera
Hindi - Jaane Tu... Ya Jaane Na - Kabhi Kabhi Aditi
Tamil - Kadhalukku Mariyadhai - Ennai Thalatta Varuvala
Tamil - Agni Natchathiram - Ninnukori Varanam (fast song)
Movies
Initially, i tried to play movies that are not so thick in action, to try and feel the sub.
A Bugs Life - DTS Lossy Track - Falling of leaves in the opening scene, cutting the grain with stem and the heap of grains falling away just before the grasshoppers arrive are really a treat with the subs. makes very good impact.
Cars - DTS Lossy Track - Opening scene of the movies wher the cars whizz around the track was done extremely well. Could feel the speed of the sub was good.
Pearl Harbour - DTS - Lossy Tracks - Couldn't resist this one. Played the scene when Japanese start to attack pearl harbour, a good 20 min thick action scene.. Though the passing of planes was all good, the explosions didn't have a great impact. I felt that the sub was quick to finish the explosion than prolong it a bit.
Didn't get much time with movies.. The quality of the bass is very good for stereo and for movies too.. But in thick action scenes, the punch isn't hard. I will recheck my settings once again before i play some more movies with thick action.
Lovely to the point review. Do the subs need time to break in? Maybe the movie experience will improve as you put in hours on the drivers.
Either I missed or have forgotten your post on 160M. Where did you pick them up from and for how much?
MaSh
Sent from my Redmi Note 3
Either I missed or have forgotten your post on 160M. Where did you pick them up from and for how much?
MaSh
Sent from my Redmi Note 3
elangoas
Well-Known Member
Thx Mash. Just like with other speakers, i think they would need some time to break-.in.. Should have completed 50+ hrs on it so far.. Will give it some more time and observe it.
Requested my friend to pick it from US, he got it for US $400 (27K) a pair.
RajithKumar
Well-Known Member
Yes a break in could help free up the driver a bit. Also I read somewhere that these subs are music oriented with quick responses which do not go well with movies, where slightly prolonged response is preferred for a lasting effect? Do observe where this aspect is true.
Damn, 27k for 160M is an excellent price. Any idea how much they are for in India, if they are?
MaSh
Sent from my Redmi Note 3
Amitkg
Active Member
Thank you Elangoas for the review.
Sent from my MI MAX using Tapatalk
Sent from my MI MAX using Tapatalk
elangoas
Well-Known Member
Sure.. Will allow it to play for some more time to see if it improves..
The subs were very satisfying for stereo, and most part of movies too...Only scenes with explosion, i felt it finished fast..
I have heard single Sonodyne SLF 210 (My bro has it) & Sonodyne Roar 210 (my friend).. Both of them use single sub.. Most of us don't have the liberty to measure the best location for a single sub.. So in that regard, i assume i was seated in a place where some part of the low freq was excited in the room, hence the prolonged explosion (am not very sure)
Yes..27K on amazon.com. Yes they are aval in India, Cinebels. MRP is 65K, after discount you might get it for 59 ~ 60K.
elangoas
Well-Known Member
I placed dual subs as shown in the below image..Fig (a)
elangoas
Well-Known Member
Been a long time since i updated this thread..
I got the subs back home in my room, been using dual subs for a while now for both stereo & HT, thought didn't do the calibration as i had some weird noise (Faulty capacitor) with one o the subs, which has been fixed now..
Have placed the subs in front corners of the room.. Beside Front left & right speakers.. The subs are rear ported, have placed both the subs identically at 17 cms from the front wall and from the side wall..
After Audyssey XT32 calibration, the biggest improvement is the bass..I think Sub EQ is doing a great job.. I felt like bass has been strapped and it is real tight in the room..Sub's performance has gone several notches up...
With crossover at 120Hz, I played stereo in 2.2 (With Audyssey Flat curve), 2.2 (without Audyssey Flat curve) and 2.0 (without Audyssey Flat curve)..
It was very evident that stereo in 2.2 With Audyssey Flat preset was the best experience, with improvements in mid range (lot more details) and the best improvement being bass..
in 2.2 (without Audyssey Flat curve), i felt the bass was flabby (not boomy)..
and 2.0 (without Audyssey Flat curve), the bass was really pale compared to the above..
I got the subs back home in my room, been using dual subs for a while now for both stereo & HT, thought didn't do the calibration as i had some weird noise (Faulty capacitor) with one o the subs, which has been fixed now..
Have placed the subs in front corners of the room.. Beside Front left & right speakers.. The subs are rear ported, have placed both the subs identically at 17 cms from the front wall and from the side wall..
After Audyssey XT32 calibration, the biggest improvement is the bass..I think Sub EQ is doing a great job.. I felt like bass has been strapped and it is real tight in the room..Sub's performance has gone several notches up...
With crossover at 120Hz, I played stereo in 2.2 (With Audyssey Flat curve), 2.2 (without Audyssey Flat curve) and 2.0 (without Audyssey Flat curve)..
It was very evident that stereo in 2.2 With Audyssey Flat preset was the best experience, with improvements in mid range (lot more details) and the best improvement being bass..
in 2.2 (without Audyssey Flat curve), i felt the bass was flabby (not boomy)..
and 2.0 (without Audyssey Flat curve), the bass was really pale compared to the above..
elangoas
Well-Known Member
L/R Bypass looks like Audyssey EQ will be engaged below the crossover point & no EQ will be applied to front L/R.. Sure.. Will try and update..
elangoas
Well-Known Member
Tried using the L/R Bypass.. Looks like Audyssey reference curve is applied below the crossover point and no EQ is applied to front speakers..
I tried cycling thru L/R Bypass & Flat preset's for stereo..
- Don't think there is change in bass, but "Flat" sounded better and together with the subwoofer's..
- Hard to nit pick, but the singers voice & some part of high freq sound better with "Flat" engaged..
- you can push the volume a lil higher with "Flat" and it doesn't tire you..
- But, if i were to choose between L/R Bypass & stereo (2.2) without Audyssey, i would choose L/R Bypass..
Note : Dynamic EQ & Vol were turned off during all the cycling of presets for stereo..
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