Playing Speaker Poker with mpws NAD356

[denom]

Spent the day with the good company of FM mpw & played with his NAD356 amp being paired to a number of speakers today & in the end learning about some of the speakers themselves.

Music heard at all the demos:
Jack Johnson - Greatest Hits
Rockstar OST
Pink Floyd Hey You
Indian Ocean Kandisa
Explosions in the sky The earth is not a cold dead place
Billy Joel Greatest Hits
L Subramanium
No Doubt Hella Good /Hey Baby
Rainbow Temple of the King
Judas Priest Judas is Rising

NOTE: ICs used everywhere were mpws Audio quest Sidewinders

Will keep my views pretty short & to the point, also they are just my thoughts, hence would request mpw to chime in with his as well.

Take 1!!!
Started with FM Jai1611s Audire IO2s
IO2
Untitled Document
Source : Sony BDP with Lampizator DAC
Speaker Cable : Forget the name!

Heard the Audire speakers for the 1st time, was glad that I could get an opportunity to do so as Jai1611 graciously agreed to let me come over with mpw. Jai1611, is truly a very nice person to meet.
As for the IO2s, very unconventional looking speakers with a tiny Fostex 108 Driver & a huge cabinet surrounding them!
Without mincing too many words, will just get to the point.
Very nice mids, good low end (about adequate keeping driver size in mind) but was not impressed with the high end. Felt it was not clean & precise.
Paired the miniwatt tube amp with the IO2s for a brief parting shot as well, the synergy was not bad but the IO2s would like some more power than what the miniwatt can deliver.
Thanked Jai1611 & his wife for the lovely coffee n cake & off we went to Atria Mall to Pro Fx for the next couple of takes!

Take 2!!!
At Pro Fx, we had a choice of the foll:
Focal 716V
Focal 826V
KEF R300
KEF R700
Guest Appearance: Polk RTi A7

Source: Denon DCD 1500 CDP / DCD 710
Speaker Cable: Chord Carnival Silver Screen

Focal 716V
Did not seem to do anything for me. Was in fact pretty disappointed with them. Thought they would improve as the songs played one after the other but NO, they did not. Was informed that they have not been played for more than 10 odd hours Price: Rs.67k (MRP)

Focal 826V
Again was informed that they have not been played for more than 20-30 hours. Most definitely the speakers that I felt paired well with the NAD356. The synergy was good, everything seemed to fall into place, though did not expect the Focal speakers to be quite so bright. Price:1.18L (MRP)
The price I felt is one the higher side & personally Not worth!

KEF R300
Wow, nice speakers! Very nice overall presentation, very velvety & sound quite similar to the Quad 11 Speakers, albeit with a larger soundstage. So far had liked only the Q300s amongst the current KEF range, but the R300s do almost everything that the Q300s do, only they(R300) do it even more better. Downer was their price, Rs.1.10L (MRP) :shock:

KEF R700
They do everything that the R300s do with added punch due thanks to extra bass driver but in the end lose out on overall vocals presentation that the R300s so beautifully emote.

NOTE: Felt that the KEFs were more power hungry & most definitely need a higher wattage amp than the NAD356, to drive them to their optimum.

Polk RTiA7
Hard pressed for time we decided to wind up & then mpw suddenly noticed the Pol RTiA7s in the HT room & requested to hear them as well. Having very short time in hand, we quickly connected the RTiA7s & gave them a quick listen.
Have heard the RTiA7s earlier paired with the Denon 710 Amp & CDP combo, they did not impress me then & likewise did not impress me this time too. Personally feel them to be an ideal part of an HT set-up & thats exactly where they should be

Thats all folks!!!

For me the only speakers that shone were the R300s, BUT their pairing with a much more capable amp + source might truly showcase what they can actually do/albeit at a cost :indifferent14:

 

[corElement]

I have heard those models as well and my impression of focal vs kef vs polk audio sound signatures was relatively the same.

Definitely the kef over either of the two. The kef needs better quality amplification to make them shine. I heard them on a mcintosh class A stereo amp.

 

[ruenigma]

Interesting session you guys had! I had thought the 716 would do better than your observations. What do you think was wrong with the 716? Would a different amp aid them?

Those are some speakers I fell in love with the moment I heard them. May be due to the fact they were in less august company and were the best we heard at the venue (Soundscapes, Pune HFV mini meet 2012).
Also can't agree more about the RTis never liked them for music.

At the mentioned price points though none of the speaker would excite me (Except again for the 716). Would like to read mpw's observations as well.

 

[corElement]

It's entirely possible the focals will perform better because I heard them on a medium grade denon Class ab amp, while I heard the kef on a high-grade old vintage Mcintosh Class A amplifier which are two entirely different classes of amplification.

Class AB amplification is good for sound signatures such as the B&W 6xx or Hari's ATL speaker. But the focals are on the brighter side, they need class A amplification. Class AB is just too bright for them.

The Kef's on the class A was really really smooth.

 

[spirovious]

Thanks for nice review,Nad now need to be checked with PSB perhaps.Even they can be paired with B & W for good synergy.

 

[ruenigma]

Thanks for nice review,Nad now need to be checked with PSB perhaps.Even they can be paired with B & W for good synergy.

I have Flash's 685s with me right now. Will hook 'em up and see how they pair with the 356.

Flash is not too optimistic about the pairing, but lets see how it goes.

 

[mpw]

thanks denom for the write up and for your company yesterday. Indeed 2 sets of ears are better that one.

The points mentioned in the review are not a critique of the speakers but purely an observation based on the listening tastes.. thats all.

Some of you may find the reviewed speakers quite good.

Indeed YMMV !!

That out of the way.. with denoms permission.. i will now share my experiences in hunting for a good FS on a budget. ( open to used ones too ).

Another caveat - i am not an "audiophile" but desire good sound to my liking. To my knowledge the only audiophile was Spock with those martian ears on Star Trek. I have yet to see one on land. However - there is no harm is desiring better sound that what you "budget" for and this is nothing to be looked down upon.

Initially - i looked at TL speakers but a few things did not work out for me and i leave it at that. These are out of question for me now.

All auditions with NAD C356 ( except where mentioned )

Previously i auditioned Tannoy Mercury V4 - i found this pairing quite good. Very good VFM. Nice tweeter on the Tannoy. The only thing i found.. i needed more throw from the woofer but this does not rule the Tannoy V4 out. I may even use the bean bag at home to move in front and reduce the listening distance. The mids were quite good too. The speakers were brand new.

Paradigm Monitor 7 v7 - not as good as the Tannoys for Stereo ( Stereo is my objective here ). But can be good HT fronts. The highs have a sharp edge and the bass is sometimes too much.

Saw the Xavian speakers.. these are big budget for me and did not play them as i was short on time.

Rishi at Allaince 4 played the Atoll IN50 Integrated. Now this integrated does not have bass and trebel controls and the caharacted is very "front foot". In my thread on the NAD C356..i referred to the C356 as an aggressive version of Rahul Dravid.. can play for a long time w/o ear fatigue but a bit more forward that its predecessor C355 ( to my ears ).

The Atoll IN50 is Virender Sehwag - you know what i mean ??

if the ball is there to be hit.. WHACK IT !! Its not a bully by any means but sweetly aggressive at the same time. I liked the sound with the Tannoy V4 a lot but would like to listen to it longer as i think the NAD C356 will be better for longer sessions ( just like a marathon runner vs a 1500 mtr race )

Paradigm Monitor 9 v7 - at The Shop - Same sound as Monitor 7v7 with even more bass. At this audition we used a CA 650 i think to power the speakers and this combo is not good pairing. ( I had not taken my NAD as this was an impulse audition some time back ). I dunno what Paradigm has done with the V7.. to my ears the v6 sounds much better.

Paradigm Monitor 11v7 - The Den - Worli - with NAD C375 - too much bass for my liking. I could not stand for more than 10 mins.

Dali Ikon 6 - The Den Worli - with NAD C375 - too dry a presentation. My ears needed a meatier presentation. Maybe the NAD combo with Dali may not be so good after all.

Jaibirs IO2 - I must thank Jaibir for being a nice host and bearing with us for nearly 2 hours as we threw a myriad of tracks at the IO2's. These have fantastic vocals. But again i needed more meat in the highs and lows and therefore we switched to the Rethms'.

the Rethm's were amazing .. even better than the IO2's and the bass was taut and well defined. Could hear the decay of the guitar strings on Mark Knopfler and Jack Johnson and was bowled over by the clarity.

The small tube amp which Jaibir played was an eye opener for me in terms of the tube sound - i was listening to it for the first time. Was wonderful. I enjoyed it. It gave a different spin to the sound as compared to the NAD solid state.

Focal 716v ( with NAD C356 ) Profx Worli - new speakers - 2.5 way.. yet to open up i think but somehow found it restrained and recessed and a bit of a struggle to get things across.

Focal 826v - nice pairing with NAD. Expressive and Expensive.. but this is my kinda sound. This is a 3 way speaker.

In my auditions so far.. I find the 2 way or the 3 way to be better than the 2.5 way. I remember the review od Paradigm Monitor 9v6 where the author had said " nothing to beat 4 on the floor".

Polk Audio RTi A7 - some cabinet resonance is provided free to the buyer. Good HT speaker with good beefy american hamburger eating male build.. you know.. lots of bloated bass ( not ok for stereo ) but for those looking for Stereo and HT.. this can be a good buy.. the resonance notwithstanding.. maybe the piece was not good.

Have a few more auditions to go in the coming weeks.. depends on the time avbl at hand for this. This month is busy with work and travel so i dont know how far i will progress but will try and be patient and wait for the right break.

Have moved my Philips MCD 177 to a new position to temp take care of my music urges. So that should keep me going for some time.. till i find something that suits me.

In the meantime.. a re-design of the AV rack / TV rack is also round the corner to get a more cleaner flatter look.

regards,
mpw

 

[denom]

I have heard those models as well and my impression of focal vs kef vs polk audio sound signatures was relatively the same.

What about the Audire IO2's??? Heard them? Need to know views of others who have heard them as well.

Definitely the kef over either of the two. The kef needs better quality amplification to make them shine.

Yes, need to hear the R300's again with another amp & source

I heard them on a mcintosh class A stereo amp.

Interesting session you guys had! I had thought the 716 would do better than your observations. What do you think was wrong with the 716? Would a different amp aid them?

Thats what calls for another audition, but when & where is to be decided. The Mumbai ProFx shop @ Atria Mall has only a pair of them & the 826, as they have stopped representing the Focal's. Asked the shop in charge about which brand will replace them, but he remained tight lipped

Those are some speakers I fell in love with the moment I heard them. May be due to the fact they were in less august company and were the best we heard at the venue (Soundscapes, Pune HFV mini meet 2012).
Also can't agree more about the RTis never liked them for music.
hyeah:

At the mentioned price points though none of the speaker would excite me (Except again for the 716). Would like to read mpw's observations as well.

The Kef's on the class A was really really smooth.

They are smooth irrespective of type of amplification, that much I could deduce from the brief demo

Thanks for nice review,Nad now need to be checked with PSB perhaps.Even they can be paired with B & W for good synergy.

Yes, we wanted to hear the PSB's but the Lakozy showroom is closed on sundays - hence we missed out

I have Flash's 685s with me right now. Will hook 'em up and see how they pair with the 356.

Flash is not too optimistic about the pairing, but lets see how it goes.

Keep us posted

 

[ruenigma]

Update on the B&W + NAD pairing. It left a really sour taste. I have heard the 685s before and they sound beautiful the C356 we've heard with the Titans of course, various PSBs and even viki's Proacs and that too isnt too bad a performer. However the pair simply refused to mate.

The bass was bloated beyond control, the mids were listenable at best and the highs were completely amiss. While I am aware about pairing discrepancies, I never imagined it could be this bad. Even my wife said these speakers are un-listenable she had never heard them before hence the naive comment but still... Its a lesson well learnt.

 

[denom]

Thanks for the update ruenigma.

Just goes to show that synergy is the key to all the madness! Also, how lucky few of us are to be able to play with the gears without actually emptying our pockets by buying & then realising the bad choice of pairing. Spare a thought for poor folks who do not have this luxury available to them (having good friends nearby) to lend their gears for conducting such 'experiments'

A round of :clapping: for such good friends

 

[ruenigma]

Thanks for the update ruenigma.

Just goes to show that synergy is the key to all the madness! Also, how lucky few of us are to be able to play with the gears without actually emptying our pockets by buying & then realising the bad choice of pairing. Spare a thought for poor folks who do not have this luxury available to them (having good friends nearby) to lend their gears for conducting such 'experiments'

A round of :clapping: for such good friends

:clapping: Totally agreed. This is one wonderful community we pride ourselves being part of.

 

[mpw]

something to do with british speakers and American designed ( asian made ) amplifiers ?

something to ponder on ?

mpw

 

[ruenigma]

something to do with british speakers and American designed ( asian made ) amplifiers ?

something to ponder on ?

mpw

I doubt it'd be a good idea to generalize like that. The Proac are British speakers too however they sang beautifully on the same amplification. I think it's all a matter of synergy and trying it out ourselves is the only option.

On the same note, you are really wise in carrying the haughty C356 for all your auditions, its a good lesson for fellow impulsive buyers among us.

 

[jaudere]

Denom & mpw,did you do audition in 1day? If yes, I must say you have amazing endurance to lsiten and judge. THE speaker I liked with NAD was PSB tower. I forgot the model no but it was from their Synchrony series. Had 3 drivers +1 tweeter. Oddly the drivers were not placed close to each other but were quite apart. Amazing sound. Very very involving. Was a superb allrounder. The cost was a huge deterrent . 1.8L.

I think it was the following speaker

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/synchrony/Synchrony-Two

 

[docd]

denom,
Nice informative review. Let me know if you are going to do any more in the near future, would love to join.
cheers

 

[ruenigma]

Denom & mpw,did you do audition in 1day? If yes, I must say you have amazing endurance to lsiten and judge. THE speaker I liked with NAD was PSB tower. I forgot the model no but it was from their Synchrony series. Had 3 drivers +1 tweeter. Oddly the drivers were not placed close to each other but were quite apart. Amazing sound. Very very involving. Was a superb allrounder. The cost was a huge deterrent . 1.8L.

I think it was the following speaker

Synchrony Two - PSB Speakers

That description fits the Synchrony line, at that price point it specifically must be the Synchrony 2. We had a really weird experience with this specific speaker at the latest Pune HFV meet at Lakozy. The speaker sounded recessed and underpowered with a NAD 375. Surprisingly its younger sibling at less than half its cost the Image T6 managed to beat it hands down with the same amplification.

This weekend I again went to the same place and this time we hooked a Threshold 100 watt class A monster in the chain, with the C375 humbly reduced to Pre-amp duty. Now, the Synchrony showed its true colors it was among the most revealing speakers I have heard at that price point. Simply superb! But the cost of required amplification puts them way out of affordability and hence the recommendation hinges on depth of pockets

 

[mpw]

not in 1 day.. jaudere..

we did a few on sunday and the tannoys and paradigms were auditioned by me about 1 week prior..

i agree.. itna appetite for audition nahin hai

PSB .... somehow the lakozy visit is getting post poned due to myriad reasons. Maybe this weekend.. lets see..

rgds,
mpw
=====================================

Denom & mpw,did you do audition in 1day? If yes, I must say you have amazing endurance to lsiten and judge. THE speaker I liked with NAD was PSB tower. I forgot the model no but it was from their Synchrony series. Had 3 drivers +1 tweeter. Oddly the drivers were not placed close to each other but were quite apart. Amazing sound. Very very involving. Was a superb allrounder. The cost was a huge deterrent . 1.8L.

I think it was the following speaker

Synchrony Two - PSB Speakers

 

[denom]

Denom & mpw,did you do audition in 1day? If yes, I must say you have amazing endurance to lsiten and judge. THE speaker I liked with NAD was PSB tower. I forgot the model no but it was from their Synchrony series. Had 3 drivers +1 tweeter. Oddly the drivers were not placed close to each other but were quite apart. Amazing sound. Very very involving. Was a superb allrounder. The cost was a huge deterrent . 1.8L.

I think it was the following speaker

Synchrony Two - PSB Speakers

:lol: mpw has replied so won't respond to that query of yours but yes when it comes to getting opportunity to listen to new audio gears, I for one love to capitalise on such instances. mpw in fact was hungry to eat, where as I was hungry to listen some more hyeah:

denom,
Nice informative review. Let me know if you are going to do any more in the near future, would love to join.
cheers

Thanks docd! Actually it was all planned on the spur of the moment BUT will keep you posted in future, of such developments

That description fits the Synchrony line, at that price point it specifically could must be the Synchrony 2. We had a really weird experience with this specific speaker at the latest Pune HFV meet at Lakozy. The speaker sounded recessed and underpowered with a NAD 375. Surprisingly its younger sibling at less than half its cost the Image T6 managed to beat it hands down with the same amplification.

This weekend I again went to the same place and this time we hooked a Threshold 100 watt class A monster in the chain, with the C375 humbly reduced to Pre-amp duty. Now, the Synchrony showed its true colors it was among the most revealing speakers I have heard at that price point. Simply superb! But the cost of required amplification puts them way out of affordability and hence the recommendation hinges on depth of pockets

Thanks again for the insight dear ruenigma Will keep this in mind & have a listen to the Synchrony 2 speaker nonetheless when I visit the lakozy showroom. Looks to be a mighty fine speaker by yours & FM Jaudere's experience.

 

[avidyarthy]

Had heard the BS Sync 1 with NAD CDp and NAD amp (forget the model) at Lakozy Delhi, a year ago.

It sure was a smasher, both look-wise as well as SQ wise. Only major let-down was the price, which was a factor then!

 

[ashishkesarwani]

PSB Synchrony Series is a VFM series as it does a lot sonically and is as Neutral as possible and is a full range speaker, the price and performance at this level can only be achieved by spending twice the money as experienced as well as compared. I had an opportunity to meet its designer Mr. Paul Barton in Mumbai in the month of July and then he explained about this speakers and what was he trying to achieve through them.
The only downside of Synchrony series is that it requires very good amplification to really show its true side, and here the true case of more the better follows.
BTW MPW / Denom, good work here for the fellow members.