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Please suggest a false ceiling option

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gvrk

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I want to setup a 15x18 room as Home Theater with occational guest use.
It is on the top floor, so thermal insulationa is also important.

Different options available for false ceiling are
1) POP ceiling
2) Gypsum board ceiling
3) Gypsum board and Gyptone (India Gypsum acoustic tile)
4) Wood wool fibre board (Thermal Insulation Board,Heat Insulation Board,Thermal Insulation Board Manufacturer,Heat Insulation Board Exporter)

I know that POP ceiling costs around Rs20 sft. What is best value for money option? I am willing to spend only upto Rs. 50 per sft.
 

micjak77

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I want to setup a 15x18 room as Home Theater with occational guest use.
It is on the top floor, so thermal insulationa is also important.

Different options available for false ceiling are
1) POP ceiling
2) Gypsum board ceiling
3) Gypsum board and Gyptone (India Gypsum acoustic tile)
4) Wood wool fibre board (Thermal Insulation Board,Heat Insulation Board,Thermal Insulation Board Manufacturer,Heat Insulation Board Exporter)

I know that POP ceiling costs around Rs20 sft. What is best value for money option? I am willing to spend only upto Rs. 50 per sft.

If you can slightly up your budget, then the best option would be acoustic ceiling by Armstrong. I paid around 70 Rs with installation charges.
 

gvrk

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Is it a grid or concealed ceiling? They have lot of range. What is the model you used? If you had good experience with the installer can you give me their contact number?

If you can slightly up your budget, then the best option would be acoustic ceiling by Armstrong. I paid around 70 Rs with installation charges.
 

micjak77

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This is odd jobs at Nagarjuna Circle, they are dealers for Armstrong Acoustical Ceilings, you may get in touch with Sanjeev Bhargava at 9391392948 or land phone 30681144. I dot remember the model no, but I went up for their regular classic model.
 

Joseph

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Hi,

I am using the Armstrong grid ceiling and it is giving excellent acoustic performance.

You may consider the folowing products-

1. Fine Fissured 99RH (0.55 NRC) Rs. 75/ sq ft
2. Prima Dune Max (0.7 NRC) Rs. 110/ sq ft

If you are not keen on acoustic performance (Noise Reduction Coefficient), then they have cheaper products as well.

However the above two would definitely have a positive impact on your listening ambience.
 
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IndianEars

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I have recently done up my room, and have constructed my own Sound Absorbtion panels, that ( IMHO :) ) Look good, sound Great and are cheap.

I have created Panels made around a 4 inch deep empty wooden frame. The Outer portion of the frame is covered with Beige Coloured Jute Cloth ( Rs 50 per meter, wide width ).

The 1st 2 Inches is a sheet of Dupont Fibre wool, medium density. This is easily available, since its used to line Aircond ducts. ( Do NOT take the one with an aluminium foil bonded on 1 side )

A roll will cost you less than Rs 2,000 and enough for the entire ceiling + some for walls !

Most Important, you MUST have a 2 inch airgap between the Glass wool and the ceiling.

On my ceiling, I have used that 4 inch gap, at the circumference, to install concealed Lighting... Looks very professional and cool. :)

I have used panelling only on the centre 30% of the ceiling. You can cover your full ceiling, but I was concerned with making the room too acoustically dead. ( Its my audio den... I am Not into Home Theatre )

You can even mount yr Projector on the ceiling panel.

The airgap is useful for the concealed wiring too...

If interested, I can post pics.
 
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IndianEars

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I have attached a pic of my audio den ceiling. Not sure if I have done it right.

Pic taken at night, note the cove ( hidden ) lights... the glow on the top left corner of the picture

Yup, the ceiling is Purple !

All the off white panels that you see are the Fibre wool panels, lining the walls....
 

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dvdmk

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Great Work Indian Ears , BTW i am using a POP celing for my room , will the sound quality improve if i use Armstrong ceiling ?

david.
 

IndianEars

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POP, if applied directly on the ceiling slab is OK. It wont absorb any sound, though

However, if POP is applied on a False ceiling... NO !

The air space between the ceiling slab and POP will form a resonant cavity, and Rattle with deep bass.

Make SURE you dont have a resonant cavity in the ceiling ( or anywhere in the room ).

A cupboard is also a no-no, even worse if placed in a corner..

I am not aware of the sound absorption properties of Armstrong Ceiling tiles, but I doubt that they will absorb half as much as 2 Inch Fibre wool with a 2 inch Air gap behind it. ( The air gap is MOST important. )
 

Sumit

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HI!!

Interesting discussion going on. I think I can contribute a little.
Please check TEXSA INDIA - Roofing , waterproofing, thermal and acoustic insulation.

I had little knowledge of acoustics when I built my HT. I built a wooden ply ceiling with a 8" empty space. Today it resonates like there is no tomorrow. Check my HT by clicking at the link on the bottom.

I took help of an acoustic consultant for rectification job. He advised me and I got Trap boxes made locally. He made me install them at precise locations.
He also wanted me install one on the ceiling but I declined since I did not wanted to spoil the look of the ceiling. But soon cracks in the ceiling got wider and now it resonates more than ever.

Now, I am contemplating on two options:

1. Paste Tecsound 50 0r Tecsound 70 from the bottom of the ceiling and then cover it with a speaker grill cloth. Easy and cheaper.

2. Take apart the complete ceiling and install Armstrong Tiles - Optra Black acoustic tiles. Difficult and comparitively expensive.

Tecsound costs around Rs. 50-60 / sqft and Armstrong Optra around Rs.85 with installation.

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Thanks.

Sumit
 

IndianEars

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1. Paste Tecsound 50 0r Tecsound 70 from the bottom of the ceiling and then cover it with a speaker grill cloth. Easy and cheaper.


Can you please explain how this will work / help ?

IMHO, it wont work.

Does your room NEED treatrment ? Or else you can keep the original ceiling. Ofcourse the limitation would be for concealed wiring.

Consider what I have done, its VERY in-expensive, and works well.

Just my 2 cents. Any contra views / discussions on the topic, are welcome :)
 

IndianEars

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I got Trap boxes made locally. He made me install them at precise locations.

Could you please post details of these.

Would be a good learning process for all.

Thanks !
 

Sumit

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HI!!

Check out my HT at
http://www.hifivision.com/my-audio-video-setup/1167-showcase-your-audio-video-setup-here-10.html

Tecsound is a reflective coating. This will not let the wooden panels to resonate. However, too much reflection is not good. This shall be managed by installing a trap box right above the listening position.
Trust me, it is going to work. My acoustic consultant is a genius in this field and takes up big time projects. If he says it will work, then it will.

Now, coming to your suggestion. My room does not require treatment. The walls are already treated with trap boxes at various positions. The wiring is already concealed and is not a problem. I am quite eager to know what you can suggest me as a rectification job here.

Also, Trap boxes are simple to make. The trick is to understand the right size and locations.

Details are as under:

Note:-
The internal depth of trap-box is 100mm.The perforated front panel thickness.is 6mm. Holes to placed in random fashion.The remaining panels ( of the trap-box).can be 10-12mm thickness.TrapBox Material: Non laminated MDF Wood.GlassWool Filling partial. Drill 200nos holes of 9mm each.

I have a picture of the TB when it was being made. I shall post it later for you.

I can tell one thing.....these TB's changed the complete sound of my HT. It sounds sooooo much better now. And, when the ceing is fixed... it shall be a whole new era for me ;)

Sumit.

PS> I guess we are even on the "2 cents" part.



Can you please explain how this will work / help ?

IMHO, it wont work.

Does your room NEED treatrment ? Or else you can keep the original ceiling. Ofcourse the limitation would be for concealed wiring.

Consider what I have done, its VERY in-expensive, and works well.

Just my 2 cents. Any contra views / discussions on the topic, are welcome :)
 

IndianEars

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Hi Sumit,

Many Thanks for your detailed post. Will be lovely to receive the picture.

I did not mean any offence to you or your consultant.

It just seems to me, that reflective coatings will reflect Mid & HF, not LF.

The LF energy would ( IMHO :rolleyes: ) continue to dissipate itself by vibrating the loose ceiling boards.

Cheers !
 
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santhosh

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Very informative discussion by knowledgable members:thumbsup:

@IndianEars: Your suggestion on the DIY false ceiling is very good. Can you please post some closeup pictures of your ceiling please. Also, I read your suggestion on avoiding resonant cavity anywhere in the room. I have a WIP Home Theatre Build going on which I am documenting on this thread.

My ceiling before acoustic treatment looks like this.What would you suggest is the best way to treat this ceiling?
Image381.jpg


Also, what is the model number for the Armstrong Optra Black acoustic tiles?
 

IndianEars

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You have an interesting situation. I would probably approach it as follows "

1. Does your room NEED Damping for High and mid frequencies ? Stand in the middle of your room and give a sharp clap. Does the room 'Ring' ? Only if you hear a ring... long time to decay .... that you need to damp your room for Mid & HF.

Do not damp a room * for mid & High Freq ) that does not need damping. It will make your room and music sound very 'Dead.'

However, most rooms could do with Low Freq damping. Many put a carpet on the floor. This will not provide any LF damping. For effective LF damping, the damping layer needs to be thick ( a couple of inches ) and MUST have an airgap behind it. At the same time, there should not be a resonant cavity.

Seek help from a proffessional consultant, as far as possible.

You can put 2 inch damping with another 2 inch air gap on the walls. Its not possible to put that on the floor ! Hence if you are not treating the walls, cover part or the entire ceiling with damping material air gap.

I have covered the central 30% of my ceiling.

Incase you plan not to treat your ceiling, you could polish the wood beams and it would look very nice.

If you want to treat the ceiling, you could :

1. Put the Fibre wool, covered with Jute cloth throughout the ceiling. ENSURE that there is ATLEAST a 2 inch airgap between the fibre wool and the protuding part of the wooden beams on your ceiling.

Do NOT run this from all to wall. Keep a 3 to 6 inch gap between the wall and the treatment. You could use Cove lights in this gap. It will look nice too. The gap is ESSENTIAL to avoid a resonant cavity, from a sealed box like cavity

2. The other option is to Fit the fibre wool and cloth in squares which are SMALLER than the sqaure gaps between the rafters on your ceiling. Again you MUST ENSURE that there is no sealed cavity formed. a Couple of inches gap on each side will ensure that there is no resonance of the damping material. You could use a neutral coloured cloth ( Cream / beige ) or even 2 colours, alternating... one a dark colour like brown and beige, for the small squares between the rafters.

Just my 2 cents. Let me figure out how to post pics, and I will put up some of my room.
 
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IndianEars

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I just saw the pics of yr room in the 'Other' thread.

I dont think that you have too many windows !

Please Do NOT make cupboards in their location. The closed boxes will resonate.

Instead, you can cover that area with an open "Pigeon Hole" rack to house CDs and DVDs. I have put Rope lights behind the Pigeon hole CD racks, for subdued lighting, which really sets a good, relaxed ambience for Stereo listening.

I have put the Pigeon hole racks at the 1st reflection points so that when filled with CDs / DVDs, they act as acoustic diffusers.

I guess you will need to see pics of what I am referring to, to understand.
 
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santhosh

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I request members to also participate in my other thread which is about my Home Theater Build: http://www.hifivision.com/av-enhanc...e-theatre-room-please-guide-me.html#post61097

Thanks IndianEars for your suggestion.

Does your room NEED Damping for High and mid frequencies ? Stand in the middle of your room and give a sharp clap. Does the room 'Ring' ? Only if you hear a ring... long time to decay .... that you need to damp your room for Mid & HF.

Do not damp a room * for mid & High Freq ) that does not need damping. It will make your room and music sound very 'Dead.'
Sure, I will have to wait for the civil work to be completed and then try this. Infact, I plan to use the room as is for a short while. This way I can treat the room based on the need.

However, most rooms could do with Low Freq damping. Many put a carpet on the floor. This will not provide any LF damping. For effective LF damping, the damping layer needs to be thick ( a couple of inches ) and MUST have an airgap behind it. At the same time, there should not be a resonant cavity.
Since it is a small room, I am sure it will require LF damping. For this I was thinking of DIY basstraps in all four corners of the room and maybe a pair of diffusers too on the rear wall.

Seek help from a proffessional consultant, as far as possible.
I am DIYer and would like to do this myself as much as possible. I will engage professional skilled workers where ever required.

You can put 2 inch damping with another 2 inch air gap on the walls.
Could you please elaborate on this. I am interested in knowing what material to use and how to provide the air gap.

Its not possible to put that on the floor ! Hence if you are not treating the walls, cover part or the entire ceiling with damping material air gap
I was planning to get a wooden flooring done and add a carpet in front of the floorstanders.

Incase you plan not to treat your ceiling, you could polish the wood beams and it would look very nice.
The beams are concrete and are not of uniform size throughout the room. I have to cover them up.

If you want to treat the ceiling, you could :

1. Put the Fibre wool, covered with Jute cloth throughout the ceiling. ENSURE that there is ATLEAST a 2 inch airgap between the fibre wool and the protuding part of the wooden beams on your ceiling.

Do NOT run this from all to wall. Keep a 3 to 6 inch gap between the wall and the treatment. You could use Cove lights in this gap. It will look nice too. The gap is ESSENTIAL to avoid a resonant cavity, from a sealed box like cavity
Thanks for this detailed explanation. Also, could you please share the product code of the Dupont Fibre Wool that you have used.

Just my 2 cents. Let me figure out how to post pics, and I will put up some of my room.
Sure. Alternatively, you could email them to me at santhosh_rd@yahoo.com and I shall post them on this thread.
 
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