Power Chord

[manoj.p]

It's not the question of playing spoilsport - but getting to the bottom of it. Most of these tests where people can distinguish are usually done sighted or not done blind. If its the controlled blind test, users are not able to distinguish the cables. Or at least I haven't come across such a test resulting in audible difference. Anyone who wants to learn about this needs to read this thread or at least first few pages. http://www.avsforum.com/t/941184/observations-of-a-controlled-cable-test

The gist is - the poster in first post (and he was actually an observer for this test) was able to (or thought he was) hear the difference in cables but when he went blind, he couldn't. Just clear enough to tell that how easy it is to trick the mind.

Another thing is - all the cable manufacturer's who claim the cables make a difference can never back it up, never publish a paper in Engineering societies like AES or take patents. If their design indeed makes a difference, then why not patent it? Cause most likely they can't prove it.

To borrow our young, dynamic, upcoming leader's quotation and put into audio theory, "Audible cable difference is a state of mind"

 

[arj]

.. though even according to experts this is the last thing to be worked on while trying to improve your hifi. ..

And this is the pertinent point !
You play around with Power and Cables (other than then being of sensible quality ) as an end game. In the end we are talking of the final 5-10% differences and nothing can help you if the components itself do not have the resolution or set up correctly
So once we get the speaker setup correct, get the cabling correct, right isolation and of course the components itself being of good enough quality , thats when you look at this even as an option ... and in case not it is a waste of time/money to even try out

 

[shanmune]

That is why I am suggesting to have a dedicated thread for people (who have experienced the differences in the sound quality with different power chords) to post their experience. Let the two camps exist and let people know/hear both the sides. Until now, I have heard the thoughts of non-believers. Now, we (at least me) want to hear from the believers as well (about their experience with the power chords).

 

[keith_correa]

I don't login for a day and look what I missed. Enough of the theatrics! What's life without a little vinegar. Carry on now...

 

[arj]

I don't login for a day and look what I missed. Enough of the theatrics! What's life without a little vinegar. Carry on now...

i have been trying to avoid getting sucked in..unable to do that

 

[Santy]

That is why I am suggesting to have a dedicated thread for people (who have experienced the differences in the sound quality with different power chords) to post their experience. Let the two camps exist and let people know/hear both the sides. Until now, I have heard the thoughts of non-believers. Now, we (at least me) want to hear from the believers as well (about their experience with the power chords).

This is the thread for that discussion. Don't you see I have become silent.
And I suggested it much earlier before the black hole took its shape.

My only suggestion. Try to set your room right before experimenting with these. It will give a vast improvement even if our ears are not trained enough. A good gear can be incapacitated by the room in which they play, more than an "average power cord" can do, if it all it does.

And about having an open mind, I came across this statement:

A truly open mind has to be open to the possibility that a new and radical idea, however exciting, may prove to be complete bollocks

Not that I haven't tried. I have swapped cables that came with my active monitors, preamp, DAC, CDP and even the projector and I never felt I have messed up the connections or the quality is degraded. Its so mixed up now that I can't figure out which cord came with which equipment. May be they are not made by cable specialists or they are cheap. Whatever, I strongly recommend blind fold testing in such experiments because I realize of late, though the brain is so capable, the mind seems to be quite weak.

 

[bhagwan]

And this is the pertinent point !
You play around with Power and Cables (other than then being of sensible quality ) as an end game. In the end we are talking of the final 5-10% differences and nothing can help you if the components itself do not have the resolution or set up correctly
So once we get the speaker setup correct, get the cabling correct, right isolation and of course the components itself being of good enough quality , thats when you look at this even as an option ... and in case not it is a waste of time/money to even try out

So right;
Perfectly put.

That is why I am suggesting to have a dedicated thread for people (who have experienced the differences in the sound quality with different power chords) to post their experience. Let the two camps exist and let people know/hear both the sides. Until now, I have heard the thoughts of non-believers. Now, we (at least me) want to hear from the believers as well (about their experience with the power chords).

Let the non-believers be there - how does it matter ?
If they cannot hear the difference - they are SO LUCKY - Money saved.

However, on the other side of the Camp, why would any person spend time / efforts & money [most importantly] if he could not hear a difference ?

You know, we often make this mistake, but imho I always feel that 'big / rich' people cannot be made a fool as easy as the 'small / poor' people can me.

They [rich] deal with a lot of big & complex issues & are very perceptive in their business ways - they 'catch' a person trying to take them for a ride - very easy & fast;;

OT - Sahara made its money by duping small / poor people in their chit funds - huge base - small amounts;

To get back to Power Cords - why would any person by an 'expensive' power cord - if he did not 'hear' a difference ?

The only way you can tell the difference is to take 2 power cords into a 100K US $'s audio set up & switch the cables & listen, it will show up in 1 nano second - I too learnt this a long time back with my Cables in a 1M ++ Set up where the Argento Flow Master Reference [FMR] did circles around my Silencable Symphony range of cables in less that 1 second [yes - it was so apparent] - in that set up the cable compliment was worth 175/- K US$'s & it showed up - when it threw out my 15/-K Euro Cable in a 'jiffy'

So what I write here - or what any one else writes, will not matter....
You can get 'converted' only when you listen to it & know for your self.

The difference will only show up when the chain is 'right up there' & that the system is optimized & works well with the room etc.

 

[Shivam]

I am LUCKY that my system is not resolving enough.

(maybe my ears are to blame too, but I am happy.)

 

[sidvee]

btw i also discovered some taiwan and hongkong power cords at a similar price level as pangea - i will try to get that information.

I haven't used this brand "Sine", but seems to be well regarded (in singapore, HK) , and they have some power cords that are reasonably priced (at least by my standards), I think $100-150 singapore. I wanted to buy some unterminated cable to make a custom length power cord with wattgate connectors (20amp iec), so I was in touch with them, however I ended up buying an audio art cable from the local dealer, which worked out the same by the time I paid shipping and customs if any.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[square_wave]

@Thad,

Tear the things to pieces!! Well, if one wants to, there are a lot of arguments which can be counter argued. But many folks are trying to be gents rather than banshees on ballistic brooms hurling mud at each other on the forum.

Many people restrain themselves because of a certain nature of this forum.

 

[keith_correa]

@Thad,

Tear the things to pieces!! Well, if one wants to, there are a lot of arguments which can be counter argued. But many folks are trying to be gents rather than banshees on ballistic brooms hurling mud at each other on the forum.

Many people restrain themselves because of a certain nature of this forum.

Well said Sir!

 

[bhagwan]

I am LUCKY that my system is not resolving enough.

(maybe my ears are to blame too, but I am happy.)

Respected Sir,
It is not only about your system's resolution...
If you get the chance to visit some other audiophile's residence, take your power cord along.
Replace his Power Cord with your power cord & listen to your favorite CD 'again'
You need to look for a few things - [a] is there a change ? if there is a change - is it for the better or worse ? [c] how easy is it showing up ? [d] do you need to stress on it - look for the finer details or is it apparent ?
[e] get into the depth / space of the instruments - gap between the performers [f] change in 'tone' - rather difficult to happen [g] pace & timing changes [difficult to catch]
Sir, this is all greek & latin what I type - sorry.
But, these things do happen & they can be heard & noticed.
However, writing about it - is of no use - it needs to be 'experienced' & maybe some person needs to guide you through it - I may be wrong here - sorry;
Please do look at what I have posed in the correct light - it is not about power cords & or money that one spends or ones ears - it is about trying to learn to listen & maturing ones hearing ability.
It takes a lot of time & practice to understand what is going on.....

O.T. If I listen to a Mridyangam in 2 different places with different people playing - I will not know what the finer details & differences are - simply because I am not trained & do not know what to look for - however many others will catch the fault & differences in a nano second & it would be so simple for them & would seem like a monumental task for me....

We need to be ready to learn & spend time in listening & changing the way we listen;

 

[shanmune]

So right;
Perfectly put.



Let the non-believers be there - how does it matter ?
If they cannot hear the difference - they are SO LUCKY - Money saved.

However, on the other side of the Camp, why would any person spend time / efforts & money [most importantly] if he could not hear a difference ?

You know, we often make this mistake, but imho I always feel that 'big / rich' people cannot be made a fool as easy as the 'small / poor' people can me.

They [rich] deal with a lot of big & complex issues & are very perceptive in their business ways - they 'catch' a person trying to take them for a ride - very easy & fast;;

OT - Sahara made its money by duping small / poor people in their chit funds - huge base - small amounts;

To get back to Power Cords - why would any person by an 'expensive' power cord - if he did not 'hear' a difference ?

The only way you can tell the difference is to take 2 power cords into a 100K US $'s audio set up & switch the cables & listen, it will show up in 1 nano second - I too learnt this a long time back with my Cables in a 1M ++ Set up where the Argento Flow Master Reference [FMR] did circles around my Silencable Symphony range of cables in less that 1 second [yes - it was so apparent] - in that set up the cable compliment was worth 175/- K US$'s & it showed up - when it threw out my 15/-K Euro Cable in a 'jiffy'

So what I write here - or what any one else writes, will not matter....
You can get 'converted' only when you listen to it & know for your self.

The difference will only show up when the chain is 'right up there' & that the system is optimized & works well with the room etc.

Thanks for sharing your experience while you experimented with the cables.
Certainly I need to find on my own by experimentation (as you suggested).

 

[Shivam]

Respected Sir,
It is not only about your system's resolution...
If you get the chance to visit some other audiophile's residence, take your power cord along.
Replace his Power Cord with your power cord & listen to your favorite CD 'again'
You need to look for a few things - [a] is there a change ? if there is a change - is it for the better or worse ? [c] how easy is it showing up ? [d] do you need to stress on it - look for the finer details or is it apparent ?
[e] get into the depth / space of the instruments - gap between the performers [f] change in 'tone' - rather difficult to happen [g] pace & timing changes [difficult to catch]
Sir, this is all greek & latin what I type - sorry.
But, these things do happen & they can be heard & noticed.
However, writing about it - is of no use - it needs to be 'experienced' & maybe some person needs to guide you through it - I may be wrong here - sorry;
Please do look at what I have posed in the correct light - it is not about power cords & or money that one spends or ones ears - it is about trying to learn to listen & maturing ones hearing ability.
It takes a lot of time & practice to understand what is going on.....

O.T. If I listen to a Mridyangam in 2 different places with different people playing - I will not know what the finer details & differences are - simply because I am not trained & do not know what to look for - however many others will catch the fault & differences in a nano second & it would be so simple for them & would seem like a monumental task for me....

We need to be ready to learn & spend time in listening & changing the way we listen;

I did actually try that multiple times but unfortunately (or fortunately) I couldn't make out the difference. There were a few who could make out the difference on the same system but not me. I kept my mouth shut so as not to look like the only non-audiophile in the group. I could see the soundstage, understand the subtleties of the music, overall flavour, tone, timing and attack etc, but no I did not hear any difference on changing the power cables. I do respect your views and your commitment towards good sound but for me the power cables didn't make any difference. The systems I heard were beyond my budget so I didn't venture into still higher end systems.

Ignorance is bliss (or maybe having a small pocket is also a bliss).

 

[bhagwan]

but no I did not hear any difference on changing the power cables.

I do respect your views and your commitment towards good sound but for me the power cables didn't make any difference. The systems I heard were beyond my budget so I didn't venture into still higher end systems.

Ignorance is bliss (or maybe having a small pocket is also a bliss).

So there you go;
Perfect.
You did try & did not find a difference & I respect your opinion.
Truly Perfect.
The 'inference' is - keep what you have & enjoy the music !
:clapping:

 

[Shivam]

So there you go;
Perfect.
You did try & did not find a difference & I respect your opinion.
Truly Perfect.
The 'inference' is - keep what you have & enjoy the music !
:clapping:

A little OT but what in your opinion was the lowest priced system in which you could hear a difference with power cable change ? I asking this to you since in my opinion you might have heard the most high end systems here.

 

[asliarun]

btw i would like to note this point : hearing is hardly a simple phenomenon. those who have learnt 'music by ear' will know what i mean. when you hear a song over stereo your perceptual faculties can hardly grasp the whole array of sounds coming through. at the best you only have a sense of it - that's all. pick your favorite guitar or piano or sax solo which you have listened to a hundred times in awe - try to whistle or hum or sing it back. a trained ear can poke several holes in your rendition. normally when you try to learn music by ear, you have to hear a same passage several times (probably like 20 to 30 times or even more) to get a good grip of its complexities and nuances (which are what make that sound so special and effective). and it is an exertion of the senses - similar to what weighlifting is physically or a mathemetical workout is to your brain. so to simply claim 'i can't hear any difference' doesn't really mean much. maybe you are not listening well enough. also just like there are natural musicians, maybe there are natural audiophiles who can hear better (btw i don't count myself as one such - i am only a music lover). seymour duncan, a famous electric guitar pickup maker, is supposed to have better ears than a dog!!!

Nandac, thanks for sharing! Your comment gave me a whole different way to approach the idea of "listening" to music. Insights like these are the reason why I love this forum and keep coming back. Even to the flamewars (or maybe, especially the flame wars )

 

[bhagwan]

A little OT but what in your opinion was the lowest priced system in which you could hear a difference with power cable change ?

Oh !
That is a tough question;
Off the Bat, I do not know - maybe it does not cross my mind, but I am sure I have heard set ups that may cost under 5/-K US$'s & I have managed to spot differences in Cable Change etc.
Power Cords specifically, I feel make the biggest difference on CD Players & Pre Amplifiers.
1 thing crosses my mind - distinctly, when I had a Meridian CD Player - 808.2i the power cord change on that CD Player made no difference....[to agree with your observation & that was a 20/-K US$ CD Player] !

 

[sidvee]

Power Cords specifically, I feel make the biggest difference on CD Players & Pre Amplifiers.

I concur and would like to add DAC as well to the above, where I could tell the most differecne with different power cords.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[Nikhil]

Nikhil/sid, thanks for the insights. but there seem to be a whole bunch of them out there. any recommendations based on vfm ?

Sorry I missed seeing this ... Here is my recommendation.

Anticables solid core wire and connectors custom stereo cables

Well regarded and have a range of cables based on VFM. I haven't used them myself so this is a blind recommendation.
They are on my list of cables to try some time in the future.