POWER GAMES:Servo Stabilizer,CVT or Online UPS?

[prem]

Hi Ajay


Try replacing the plastic/rubber feet under your UPS. I have replaced mine in the CVT with 3 Jenga blocks. Jenga is a kids game that you can buy from your toy shop for about Rs 450. You can even raise your cables by placing the Jenga blocks under them. The nice thing is if you do not like how it sounds you can gift the Jenga blocks to a kid

 

[ajay124]

Hi Ajay


Try replacing the plastic/rubber feet under your UPS. I have replaced mine in the CVT with 3 Jenga blocks. Jenga is a kids game that you can buy from your toy shop for about Rs 450. You can even raise your cables by placing the Jenga blocks under them. The nice thing is if you do not like how it sounds you can gift the Jenga blocks to a kid

@prem
You should write a book or at least start a thread on 'esoteric' audiophile tweaks

 

[prem]

Hi Ajay

The Jenga blocks is not my idea. The owner of Ayre, Charles Hansen, recommended this.

 

[prem]

Hi Ajay

Tonight when you are listening to your favorite symphony, invert a wine glass and place it on a shelf near you. You will hear more clarity in the sound because some of the bass energy gets converted to treble energy. Ideally thinner the glass, better. This is the basic principle of an acoustic resonator. I know of people who have stacked many wine glasses inverted on a shelf on their back wall.

 

[ajay124]

Hi Ajay

The Jenga blocks is not my idea. The owner of Ayre, Charles Hansen, recommended this.

@prem
There are no 'original' ideas in the universe anymore.We stand on the shoulders of ancient philosophers.It is only our ego talking when we say 'I'! Every idea or opinion is borrowed,received or at least heavily influenced by an older idea.
I remember reading that most opinions which the good citizens of the western world hold,are borrowed from Socrates,Plato and Aristotle.These good souls have simply been parroting the words and ideas of the great philosophers for 2000 years,yet their sentences begin with 'I think' 'I believe' 'In my 'opinion'

 

[prem]

Agreed Ajay

 

[Sachin]

Hi ajay124,
thanks for starting this thread :clapping: I was contemplating buying APC online UPS but for the price which was holding me back. Based on your feedback,reviews here and a brief demo by the dealer in Pune, bought this 3 KVA Liebert online ups system. Decision was easier due to the clarity on the issue and loads of information shared here by the members.
Regards.

 

[sgajjala]

Sachin,
Could you please let me know the price of the 3 KVA Liebert online ups system?

 

[Sachin]

Sachin,
Could you please let me know the price of the 3 KVA Liebert online ups system?

paid 28k with taxes and duties.

 

[Soundstage]

Hello Sachin,

Could you kindly post the dealer's name and contact details? I too am interested in buying one.

Thanks!

Or pm me if it is against posting rules on the forum.

Thanks again!

 

[Sachin]

pm sent, please check.

 

[ajay124]

Hi ajay124,
thanks for starting this thread :clapping: I was contemplating buying APC online UPS but for the price which was holding me back. Based on your feedback,reviews here and a brief demo by the dealer in Pune, bought this 3 KVA Liebert online ups system. Decision was easier due to the clarity on the issue and loads of information shared here by the members.
Regards.

sachin

Good decision. Good price. I paid 27.5 K a few months ago. It makes sense to buy the 3 kVA model. My dealer had quoted 25 K for a 2 kVA .So you hardly save anything by compromising on the power. According to the specs, efficiency is rated at 80%, therefore maximum power output of a 3 kVA is 2.4 kVA . For a 2 kVA it would be 1.6 kVA.

In comparison APC specs state a 70% efficiency. Maybe their specs are more conservative, but in effect the maximum output of their 3 kVA model is 2.1 kVA. Less power and no other significant difference from the Emerson model. Therefore I could find no justification for buying an APC 3 kVA with a similar battery back up, for which the dealer was quoting 40K.

I am extremely happy with the product. I consider it the most essential part of my system. I hope you are installing it near the distribution board. Don't make the mistake of installing it in the same room as your system.

 

[Sachin]

Thanks ajay124,
agree with you on the comparison and to add to that the dB level of Liebert (<45 dB) is leseer than the APC (@ 53 dB). Regarding the positioning, though i had read your experience of locating the unit, i had to install it :sad: in the same room (in one corner) ; however, will soon shift it near the panel board once few required changes are done at the main board. Regards.

 

[ajay124]

I inquired from the Emerson Leibert dealer whether the UPS could be left powered on at all times. And his response was that an online UPS is built for 24x7 usage. I would like to learn more about whether components should be kept powered on, or switched off when not in use. Specifically the UPS and my power amp. The Bryston 4B SST consumption during idling is 170W. I have not checked the specs for the Emerson ups. Assuming a combined idling consumption of 300W for both units, how much would it add to the monthly electricity bill?

Should a power amp be left powered on all the time? It obviously sounds better after a little bit of warm up. Some folks believe that the power surge required to start up a power amp does more damage to the amp than anything else, therefore switching the amp on and off regularly is the worst thing you can do. The other camp believes that a constantly switched on amp will generate heat, which will reduce the life of the internal components, therefore it is not a good option.

Ideally I would like to keep my system powered on, if the cost is not too much, and if does not damage the system in the long run.

 

[ajay124]

"Actually what wears components is the constant expansion and shrinkage when the components are continually turned on and off - not to mention the wear and tear on the switch . Also leaving them on maintains a constant thermal temperature on the circuit boards and components which resists moisture/corrosion etc.

I'll tell you a short story. About 5 years ago I was in a recording studio in Toronto - Manta Sound - doing a recording with Oscar Peterson when the owner of the studio asked if he could see me. He took me into one of their other studios and behind a glass wall were 8 Bryston 4Bs with there lights glowing green in the darkened room. He says to me "james see those Bryston amps there - they've been on for 23 years".

james (tanner,bryston )

Bryston 3 B - BP 25 Powered On all times?

 

[venkatcr]

Ajay, the situations are completely different in many ways.

In a commercial environment, they have specialised power circuits and a number of protection layers. In addition, if an amp goes bad, they just will not care. They will either get it replaced, or get insurance money. In addition, they will usually have redundancy built in, so even if one amp goes bad, they will have a spare one that they can hook up. In addition, in places like Canada, they do not have to worry about power fluctuations and issues like that. More important, they do not have the issues of heat at all.

For example, in Dubai, my son never switches off any of the equipment including PCs, amplifiers, modems, routers, TVs, etc. His house is air conditioned 24x7. If you need to reach the ideal conditions for an amplifier to be on 24x7 in India, be ready to shell out close to 10-15K a month in terms of air conditioning, power conditioning etc. Even when I use my A/c for 3 to 4 hours a day when I watch a movies or listen to music, my EB bill is close to 5K. If I need to keep it on all the time, it will certainly cross 10K.

In India, I would rather switch off and switch on when needed. If the amp takes 30 minutes to reach it's playable stage, then so be it. But, with, solid state devices, that is exactly what it is supposed to avoid.

Cheers

 

[prem]

I never like to keep my system switched on all the time even though power in Mumbai is pretty decent. Its more a state of mind, not to mention increased power bills

 

[sidvee]

What I have noticed with my Symphonic line Rg7 (as it was before with the Odyessy stratos) that the overall sound becomes smooth and fatigue free after 30-45min of continuous operation. This behaviour has proponents both for and against - the for side stating that this is common for high current amps with a decent bias into class A, and against stating that this is just a figment of imagination of the listener. Regardless in my situation ideally I would like to leave my amp. on all the time, but in my small room (14' x 12') and in hyderabad weather - even now during monsoon we are getting daytime highs of 32-33C - and the high class A bias of the SL (the amp gets quite hot to touch) the amp. is heating up the room uncomfortably so much so that I have to use the AC during listening sessions, especially if temp. outside is relatively high. So in my case - as Venkat stated - to keep power bills under control and the room usable (btw I believe ET stated that indian domestic power tariffs are among the highest the world) - I have to switch off the amp. when I am not listening and deal with the bother of turning on the amp. about an hour prior to my listening. Would be interesting to know if any of our members keep their amps. on all the time and what has been their experience.
Cheers
Sid

 

[ajay124]

I gues venkat is right on all counts and it does not make sense to keep the amp powered on all the time. Perhaps it is required in countries close to the North Pole like Canada, Norway, Sweden or Finland.

In any case my Bryston Pre/Power amps do not have standby switches. They would have to be kept fully powered on. Maybe some recording studios in Canada and James Tanner can afford to it. But me :sad: No way!

But I have started keeping the online UPS on standby mode instead of switching it off every night.

 

[anm]

Hi - could these UPS be current limiting - ie would they max out on some ampere level, even if the load is within VA limits? Do high current amp request more current from the power line in case of dynamic passages, or use internal storage of capacitors?

Thinking more, aren't even the power lines current limiting? 5A, 16A, 20A is the rating of power lines.
Not sure if this is a correct question to ask but is there a possibility that current requirement of amp is not met by the online UPS.