Pre-Amplifier upgrade

[sidvee]

Esteemed members,
The time has come for me to plan a preamp upgrade from my current Audio Research LS26. The intent of the upgrade is to match sound synergy to the Symphonic line Rg7 Mkiv amp. that I have. The Ls26 pairs nicely with the SL, but I have noticed that when I use my Parasound JC2 pre there is more immediacy to the sound and resolution jumps a notch ahead, whereas at the same time heavy handed use of the volume knob leads to listening fatigue after about an hour. The Ls26 with less immediacy and resolution produces a warmer well balanced sound with absolutely no fatigue what-so ever (probably due to the 6h30 tubes). Anyways my desire is to get the immediacy and resolution of the Jc2 combined with the warmth of the Ls26. This leads me to believe that I will be served better with a tube or tube/hybrid design. My budget - upto USD $10k. My current shortlist:

1. Cat Sl1 sig.
2. Conrad johnson et3/et5
3. ARC Ls27 or ref3 (would prefer these as I know the ARC sound well, but not sure if they are better resolving than the 26)
4. Lamm LL2.1 deluxe
5. Nagra PLL

What would be your suggestions? I am also open to solid state designs provided they meet the above stated goals and budget.

Some SS designs that i want to consider as well:
1. Ayre k-5 xemp
2. Burmester classic series (i think 035)
3. Gamut D3i

Obviously it will be next to impossible to audition all these in my system, so a dealer audition will have to suffice, along with suggestions from your good selves and professional reviews.

Cheers,
Sid

 

[odyssey]

Sidvee
I am surprised to not see the SL pre there - since you have an SL amp, I would have thought there would be some natural synergy that you would want to make use of.
Another option for consideration - Orbis Line Stage by Ayon or the Ayon CD-5 (which has an analogue volume control).
A Solid state pre that I really like - First sound

cheers

 

[malvai]

Sidvee, you must seriusly consider the CARY slp 05. I heard this at the (then) dealer in Mumbai. It was one of the most amazing pre-amps I have ever heard! It will be well within your defined budget.

I had heard it against the JRDG Coherence 2 & The ML 380 (??) preamp. This was sevral notches ahead in terms of - EVERYTHING! very dynamic, plapable sound and extremely detailed too!

here is a link to a review: slp05

 

[sidvee]

Sidvee
I am surprised to not see the SL pre there - since you have an SL amp, I would have thought there would be some natural synergy that you would want to make use of.
Another option for consideration - Orbis Line Stage by Ayon or the Ayon CD-5 (which has an analogue volume control).
A Solid state pre that I really like - First sound

cheers

Yes Sridhar - that was my first thought when I considered upgrading, but some users have reported that there is a gain mismatch between the two (Sl pre & power). What I have noticed is that gain control is essential in a preamp that would be matched with the Rg7 and as such, both of the pre's that I use currently have a +-10db gain control and I use the lowest setting.
What is the SRP of the orbis?
cheers,
Sid

 

[sidvee]

Sidvee, you must seriusly consider the CARY slp 05. I heard this at the (then) dealer in Mumbai. It was one of the most amazing pre-amps I have ever heard! It will be well within your defined budget.

I had heard it against the JRDG Coherence 2 & The ML 380 (??) preamp. This was sevral notches ahead in terms of - EVERYTHING! very dynamic, plapable sound and extremely detailed too!

here is a link to a review: slp05

Yes Malvai, I have heard the 05 as well (also I used to own the SLP 98) and though it to be a very good pre, but a concern is the highish output impedence at 400 ohms. To my ears - not understanding all the tech. terms other than ability to drive long Ic's - the pres with low o/p impedence seem to have better synergy with the Rg7. For instance I noticed that the JC2 with its 50 ohms o/p impedence seems to be better matched to the Rg7 than the Ls26 which has 350 ohms (bass is tighter and appears more extended), and that is also my concern with upgrading in the ARC line as well.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[square_wave]

Hey Sid,

Since you like the audio research sound, why don't you just move up the ladder into the reference series ?

There is a splendid SS preamp which is made by acoustic portrait these days. One of the best I have heard. You could try that too. It is around 1.2 lakhs.

 

[sidvee]

Hey Sid,

Since you like the audio research sound, why don't you just move up the ladder into the reference series ?

Yup square that is something I am considering but I want to be sure that I will be getting a significant bump up rather than a diminishing return. Secondly users in other forums have indicated unhappiness with the Ref3 pre feeding the SL Kraft series. Regardless the ref3 and the ls27 are on my list, with some users reporting that the LS27 is as good or better then the ref3 and ARC suggesting the same.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[odyssey]

You are right about the output Z since the SL amps have low input Z. The SL pre has an output impedance of 3 ohms !!
The gain can be customizable on the SL, I don't think thats an issue.

cheers

 

[sidvee]

You are right about the output Z since the SL amps have low input Z. The SL pre has an output impedance of 3 ohms !!
The gain can be customizable on the SL, I don't think thats an issue.

cheers

And that is the other thing I noticed, is that low o/p impedence in solid state pre amps. seem to be relatively affordable (even available at $3k levels), whereas the same spec. in tube pre's seems to drive the price north of $10k. Anywho I will consider the the SL as well then, but my first preference is tube/tube hybrid designs with relatively low o/p impedence.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[sidvee]

Thanks all kindly, for the suggestions so far - enlightening to say the least.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[rikhav]

Hi Sid
I am not sure if it fits the bill but have you looked at Aksa GK1 Preamps. Its a hybrid design


::: Aspen Amplifiers :::

 

[odyssey]

Hi
I have one of these, while its a good pre, it is not in the same league.

Rikhav, if the OP is willing to spend up to $10K, he can do much better than the GK1.

cheers

 

[rikhav]

Hi
I have one of these, while its a good pre, it is not in the same league.

Rikhav, if the OP is willing to spend up to $10K, he can do much better than the GK1.

cheers

Hi Sridhar
I know I know
Just that this came to my mind immediately
I am still not in the league to know about such products

 

[sidvee]

Hi Sid
I am not sure if it fits the bill but have you looked at Aksa GK1 Preamps. Its a hybrid design


::: Aspen Amplifiers :::

Hi Rikhav - do these require assembly? Then unfortunately I am not handy, so they won't work for me.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[rikhav]

Hi Rikhav - do these require assembly? Then unfortunately I am not handy, so they won't work for me.
Cheers,
Sid

Hi Sid
I think they come pre-assembled at an extra price, not 100 percent sure though

 

[murali]

As a owner of ARC Ref3 now and previously a VTL 5.5, my 2 cents, please.

Generally for full frequency response, it is advisable to match component impedances with a minimum factor of 200. For example, my VTL 5.5 has an output impedance of around 200 ohms and will easily drive any power amplifier with an input impedance of 40 kohms with little roll-off in bass. If you look at the literature of VTL's three preamps (2.5, 5.5 and 7.5), the 5.5 can even match to an input impedance of 20 kohms whereas the 7.5, the highest in that lot, can take on 600 ohms amplifier which is a studio standard. Of course, these impedances change depending on whether single-ended or balanced inputs and outputs are used, the interconnect cable quality and length, etc.
I believe your power amp (Symphonic Line) has a much lower input impedance, I find 10 kohms mentioned in their literature, which to me is a bit abnormal and too low. All my power amps like Ayre V-5, Aesthetix Atlas, etc have much higher input impedances (which usually double because I run balanced).
Hope you find the right match.

cheers.
murali

 

[doors666]

i would love to see some kind of comparisons of these hefty big ass preamps with the diy pass b1 or something equivalent.

 

[square_wave]

As a owner of ARC Ref3 now and previously a VTL 5.5, my 2 cents, please.

Generally for full frequency response, it is advisable to match component impedances with a minimum factor of 200. For example, my VTL 5.5 has an output impedance of around 200 ohms and will easily drive any power amplifier with an input impedance of 40 kohms with little roll-off in bass. If you look at the literature of VTL's three preamps (2.5, 5.5 and 7.5), the 5.5 can even match to an input impedance of 20 kohms whereas the 7.5, the highest in that lot, can take on 600 ohms amplifier which is a studio standard. Of course, these impedances change depending on whether single-ended or balanced inputs and outputs are used, the interconnect cable quality and length, etc.
I believe your power amp (Symphonic Line) has a much lower input impedance, I find 10 kohms mentioned in their literature, which to me is a bit abnormal and too low. All my power amps like Ayre V-5, Aesthetix Atlas, etc have much higher input impedances (which usually double because I run balanced).
Hope you find the right match.

cheers.
murali

All symphonic line and odyssey power amps which are derived from SL, have this low input impedance rating. I think this is a design thing.

When I used to have my odyssey amp, I was able to use the acoustic portrait tube preamp which had an output impedance of 50 ohms. But finding tube preamps with such low impedances is pretty tough.

 

[sidvee]

As a owner of ARC Ref3 now and previously a VTL 5.5, my 2 cents, please.

I believe your power amp (Symphonic Line) has a much lower input hereas the 7.5, the highest in that lot, can take on 600 ohms amplifier which is a impedance, I find 10 kohms mentioned in their literature, which to me is a bit abnormal and too low. All my power amps like Ayre V-5, Aesthetix Atlas, etc have much higher input impedances (which usually double because I run balanced).
Hope you find the right match.

cheers.
murali

Hi Murali,
Actually though there is a difference in low frequency extension driving the RG7 with the JC2 vs the Ls26, it is not a night and day difference and definitely not something that I couldn't live with (the majority of my listening is 60's jazz). The difference in resolution and immediacy, however is more pronounced, again only upon direct comparison. So I am not discounting pre-amps. purely based on o/p impedance ratings alone, it is just that since I am planning an upgrade it is an area that I want to consider. For instance the Conrad Johnson et3 & et5 preamps, both have 100 ohms output impedance in a tube design. So these may be a better match to the SL, but I wont know for sure until I audition. I used to have a CJ 17ls2 pre few years ago and it was a superb pre., so going back to CJ is fine. Another tube/hybrid design is the Nagra PLL with an output impedance of 60 ohms, but I never heard nagra's before. I believe the cat sl1 pre has an o/p impedance of 100 ohms as well. So they are available, just not sure which one will address qualities such as resolution, immediacy etc. better.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[stereorules]

i would love to see some kind of comparisons of these hefty big ass preamps with the diy pass b1 or something equivalent.

Amen to that bro ..