seeking sound advice on solar energy entrapment

[moktan]

One of the things that i can be justifiably proud of is a water harvesting project that i put up at home.
Of course i am embarrassed to use the word project because all i did is make an underground tank and a pipe system that channelized the rainwater from the catchment (fancy name for roof) through some basic filtration process.
I found it quite absurd that in spite of living on the windward slope of one of the wettest places in the country, we still suffered from shortages during the lean months.
The final straw was a traffic jam caused by a water tanker ferrying water to town in the middle of a monsoon.
Now we are quite self contained with the water. The underground tank is like a piggy bank for that precious fluid and such an approach plays out quite positively on the psychology of the family members.
They begin to look at water as a resource (which indeed it is) to be stored and are generally more cautious about its usage.
Just as we have an overabundance of water, we get a fair amount of sunshine too.
I wanted to do something about this energy too.
However in this case the technology in question is not so agricultural (i don't quite approve of this metaphor really).
I thought a friend would help.
This one was a very sweet, dear friend a genuine person, dripping quite abundantly with the milk of human kindness.
She was also a bureaucrat of the IAS variety and one of the briefs that she held was as some high level functionary in the alternative energy department.
However i was a bit disappointed with her lack of enthusiasm towards my queries.
I would have loved to put up with her proselytizing on the promise of new power but on the contrary all she gave me were some more addresses of government departments .
Anyway i don't quite blame her because she moved on from that position and subsequently took up more pressing concerns i.e. managing riots etc.
Now to come to the point of this long post..
Do any forum members have any experience with solar installations.
Some technical information, a little insight into how GOI incentives such initiatives and gyan about the hardware will be welcome.
One thing i do concede however is that a search lead me on to a whole host of Chinese enterprises that promised all kinds of solar paraphernalia.
Wished for some more desi input in this sphere...

 

[doors666]

You can use solar panels on your roof for heating water, you will need panels, storage for hot water and plumbing to take hot water to the bathrooms.

You can also use the solar panels to generate electricity and use batteries for storing it. Dont know how efficient it is. my brother in law uses a very small panel and stores in a single small battery and uses it just to power an emergency light.

You also get solar cookers. supposedly the food quality is awesome as its slow cooked. havent tried it myself yet. i believe it costs less than 5k (could be quite lesser than that).

You also get solar lights that are usually used in garden and terraces etc. you can buy these on ebay also.

Now a days you also get solar lanterns called kiran for about 500/-. also available on ebay and maybe on other sites too.

 

[moktan]

thanks a lot..though i am quite aware of those..i even designed a 'passive' solar cooker for a high school project for a 'friend'...
what i was interested in however was some brand names (preferably Indian who have ventured into harnessing solar energy for household purposes).. some innovators and innovations that take this concept to the next level (at a price of course)...
concepts that combine lower overheads with higher returns...
just as i have my tank to store the water, i need a battery to store the solar energy..and therein actually lies the bigger challenge...to take this weak analogy further..the water i store in my underground tank can be taken through a variety of usages...from the potty to the potted plant to the kitchen pot..filtered, unfiltered etc..
was wondering i fthe same could be done with the solar too..
the solar panel will need to take care of optical issues, the battery will have to be chemically optimized and then the whole question of integrating the various demands that would be made of that power...
rather than piece meal reductionist solutions like...solar lamp, solar calculator etc..i was wondering if a system existed for channelizing the solar power into the household grid (like your normal electricity) and then extracted for various utilities..

 

[doors666]

I dont think its possible to completely get rid of electricity board's supply as storing that kind of power will probably require huge number of batteries and a lot of panels. though you might be able to use it to feed an inverter connected to batteries, running fans and lights etc. maybe the gurus here can help with this.

 

[gobble]

Great Stuff Moktan!! Really gladdened my heart to hear how you liberated yourself from water woes!!

Look here: :: National Environmental Engineering Research Institute ::

There is another institute I forget the name! You should also research the activities of Auroville, a universal city in the making over time. Its a great experiment in building sustainable human societies.

I too daydream of having a DIY windmill over my roof when I get around t o building my home.

Recent news: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...to-run-on-solar-power/articleshow/6012587.cms

Cheers

 

[moktan]

what i wanted to ask was whether there was a SUZLON of solar..though i know this is a superfluous query..if there was one then i((or countless others in the market) would have already heard about it..
anyway here is hoping that some answers will give the refrain HERE COMES THE SUN an entirely new meaning...

by the way i was inspired by a BBC interview i had watched a long time back..the visionary (i have to call him that) envisaged an energy savvy world where a ready grid is available to soak up with a memory((a kind of a positive accounting system) all the energy that you generate..like say walking up the stairs, rubbing shoulders, breaking wind (ok i am taking things far, anyway you get the idea)...
kind of optimizing on entropy..anyway to come back to earth..i am still on the look out for a complete solar solution...can't really be a capitalistic conundrum..cause that would be where profits were to be for the asking..
no one has really charged me for hours of 'daylight'...the resource is free all you need is harvest, store and sell it..

 

[avidyarthy]

Solar Thermal is one very interesting line, currently being looked at very seriously. In fact, I am trying to switch my job from the current to something to do with solar power generation ... but, only by this route of solar-thermal, instead of the more conventional photovoltaic method.

In a layman's explanation, you concentrate huge 'volumes' of reflected sunlight from innumerable mirrors on to a tall tower housing a heat exchanger. The land area required is huge to set up a 50 MW power station ... The heat exchanger can have water to be converted to steam, which in turn would run a steam turbine. But such plants can operate only during daytime.

The next level of this technology is to replace water with 'salt'. The heat gathered will melt this salt, and this molten salt would transfer its latent heat to water ... then steam and power. So, if one increases the number of mirrors to the extent that it can accumulate sufficient energy (in the molten salt) to keep on generating steam continuously, even during nightfall ..... then one has actually perfected this.

Spain and USA are countries who have taken a lead in this field. It is still not being actively pursued worldwide, since the capital costs are close to 3 times. If per MW cost by thermal (coal) is Rs. 4 crore, here it is @ Rs. 10 crore per MW. But such costs are tumbling with newer materials of contruction being introduced.

It is only a matter of time, when this absolutely clean, no-greenhouse gas emitting technology is perfected ....... won't be any fuel costs then .... plain, free sunlight to be made use of. :clapping:

 

[moktan]

thanks a lot for those interesting insights..however i am quite intrigued by the cost issues.why is it so expensive since the fundamental raw material is free ( we aren't talking about harnessing power from the sea, the classic Carnot conundrum)....
this is what i don't understand about the economic systems of the world...why should survival (be it energy or health ) have to be about money...
isn't it bad economics to make survival so prohibitively expensive....

 

[raj]

thanks a lot..though i am quite aware of those..i even designed a 'passive' solar cooker for a high school project for a 'friend'...
what i was interested in however was some brand names (preferably Indian who have ventured into harnessing solar energy for household purposes).. si was wondering if a system existed for channelizing the solar power into the household grid (like your normal electricity) and then extracted for various utilities..

Yes, such systems exist in India. I have one at home for backup power.
I bought the system from orb energy (orbenergy.com). I have been using this system for two years and it works very well. It is rated to generate 1.3KW per day. They have systems that generate 3KW per day. orbenergy is a small company but provides excellent customer service. This is the best customer service I have got so far from anyone (either in India or US). I know that a few people in Bangalore have a hybrid system of solar and wind-mill. Not sure how well the wind mill works here. Solar panels are expensive (2.5-3L for a system) and don't provide a high RoI. So, don't expect a cost effective solution at this point. It is possible to go off the grid (more or less except the rainy days) with a higher capacity system than what i have. There is a community called T-Zed in BLR that uses solar energy for the apartments. You can search for BCIL and find more info on them.
Where do you live BTW?
Anyway, if you have any specific questions, let me know.

You can use solar panels on your roof for heating water, you will need panels, storage for hot water and plumbing to take hot water to the bathrooms.

Roof water heaters don't use solar panels. They run the water through copper or glass tubes to heat the water. Solar panels would be quite expensive for this purpose.

 

[moktan]

thanks this was the kind of stuff that i was looking out for...visited the website and found myself vindicated on a lot of my solar beliefs...
however the site seems to be a bit deficient on specifics and its activity seems to be quite south-centric...
will call them up though..
thanks..

 

[corElement]

I dont know about solar much but please invest in LED lighting when you go solar.

 

[mksharan]

I recently installed a microtek solar invertor along with solar panels from Tata BP(12V, 75 Watt), and exide tubular battery 12V 150Ah. The system is running quite well. You can look at the details here -
Solar UPS SLB

Manoj

 

[gobble]

thanks a lot for those interesting insights..however i am quite intrigued by the cost issues.why is it so expensive since the fundamental raw material is free ( we aren't talking about harnessing power from the sea, the classic Carnot conundrum)....
this is what i don't understand about the economic systems of the world...why should survival (be it energy or health ) have to be about money...
isn't it bad economics to make survival so prohibitively expensive....

I beleive, it is the cost of the solar cells that makes it expensive. People are working on manufacturing lower cost cells , but no breakthrough in sight yet.

Regards

 

[Hiten]

"TATA/BP Solar" is good co. for this. Has various solutions like home lighting system etc.
solar india solar power india home lighting domestic industrial water heating systems swimming pools water heating systems solar road dividers powered telecommunications power packs powered lighting systems india home lighting kits hybrid power packs

 

[moktan]

Yes, such systems exist in India. I have one at home for backup power.
I bought the system from orb energy (orbenergy.com). I have been using this system for two years and it works very well. It is rated to generate 1.3KW per day. They have systems that generate 3KW per day. orbenergy is a small company but provides excellent customer service. ..

i called up ORB ENERGY (and another friend sent them a mail)..the person who spoke at the other end of the line , though trying to helpful couldn't enlighten me much ..anyway he has told me that he would make another person (a technical guy probably) call on me...
from what i could gather, they will follow the solar panel-battery-inverter route...
some more specific information (pictures, cost etc) would be welcome since so far my visit to the website and my phone call could not clue me in on those details....
thanks

 

[TaureanBull]

Well this source to energy has really been neglected in an energy starved country like india. The main reason behind is the initial cost (inspite of the fact that there is HUGE subsidy :licklips: on the equipment, approx 1/2 to 1/3 of the cost). It takes about a decade to overcome the initial cost and start benefiting from the project. The equipment also needs some basic technical knowledge and maintenance. I am also planning to go green :yahoo: but step by step by adding the panels slowly and increasing the storing capacity. you may like to have a look at this site


Solar Energy - Solar Energy and Solar Power Applications

do educate us all as and when you go GREEN :clapping:

 

[theironhorse]

hi moktan... dude u are going the green way and i m happy bout it..
however the question u asked i do not have the exact info bout it but yes u can use solar energy for multipe things like powering ur garden lights. storing the energy and using ity later on and solar water heater and so on... however good news is that these things are quite expensive and no feasible for a normal person so in case if you do so government will bear half of the expediture for the same.. i know government office ( work like s*cks*) worth a try if u can save ur precious bucks.. contact the govn. office for alternative energy and spk to them they will help you..

 

[cmsajith]

I am also looking for a similar solution for some time. Any idea how much will be the initial cost for a 1.5KVa and 3KVa setup?

My purpose is to implement this in our apartment complex for all the electrical needs in the common area. Currently the monthly bill is touching 85-95K + Generator backup. I am thinking of this alternative solution to reduce the dependency on the EB and also it should reach the break even in around 5 years.

One idea which is coming to mind is to reduce the initial investment is to share the o/p from the panels (If possible, right now i am thinking only in high level, need to dig out the possibilities) to the residents' individual flats so that they can also use the solar energy if they have the required equipments. This will reduce the time for achieving the break even and also reduce the burden of the initial investment.

 

[anm]

hmm I was exploring this couple of years back when I moved into my house and my house was getting overheated. However most of the time the sunshine was on the front wall that I wanted to guard from sunshine, and then thought nothing would be better than converting that heat to something useful.
In US there are companies that are producing thin sheets that can be rolled on a wall and are aesthetically good looking too. Don't know if there is something like this available in India as yet.
I was also exploring to make a roof top garden but seems impossible due to seepage issues in this builder built house. Since it is a row house, I can't bring it down and rebuild (don't have that kind of money either)

 

[cmsajith]

hmm I was exploring this couple of years back when I moved into my house and my house was getting overheated. However most of the time the sunshine was on the front wall that I wanted to guard from sunshine, and then thought nothing would be better than converting that heat to something useful.
In US there are companies that are producing thin sheets that can be rolled on a wall and are aesthetically good looking too. Don't know if there is something like this available in India as yet.
I was also exploring to make a roof top garden but seems impossible due to seepage issues in this builder built house. Since it is a row house, I can't bring it down and rebuild (don't have that kind of money either)

It is done by putting thin sheets (preferably Aluminium) and will be located 2-3 ft from the wall (will look like a vertical blinds). It can be connected to a sensor based motor which can track the direction of the sun and rotate the blinds accordingly. This is used in lot of our new commercial buildings. Moreover this gives a different look to the elevation.

You can do the water proofing with a sub floor on top of the existing RCC floor for the roof top garden if it is a pillar construction and if they are closer. Another option would be to use artificial grass (will reduce overall weight on the roof also) along with the normal plants in pots so that it give the look and feel like a normal garden.

For reducing the heat from the roof:
- Paint the roof with White Cement (will help in filling the cracks also) once in 6 months or a year.
- Cover the roof with a normal GI sheet roof with a gap of 1 or 2 ft so that the air can move freely. If you increase the gap, you can use it for drying your clothes also. I have done a similar roofing for my house at cochin along with white cement coating and its very effective.