Suggestion required for Digital Audio

Mash,
There is a dac in DVD player and in AVR. FiiO may not be better than either in SQ. It will just be different. These days DVD/BD players and AVRs have decent 16 bit DACs

Cheers,
Raghu
 
Came across this DAC on Amazon. FiiO D03K Coaxial/Optical to R/L Audio convertor: Amazon.in: Electronics

Any one using it? It may not compare to the other more acclaimed brands or models, nevertheless, is it worth getting a feel of using a DAC?

It would be connected either to Coaxial or Optical out of my DVD player and will feed into my receiver. Suggestions/Views are welcome. Advice on alternate models in this price range are also welcome.

MaSh

For those on a budget, Raspberry Pi with a HiFiBerry DAC would be a good solution. However, for a little bit more you can get the entry level Schiit DAC which makes for a truly VFM product. The AQ DragonFly (at US prices) is also a good buy.
 
I have a basic Philips 2180 BD Player. It bitstreams content to my Marantz 1504. Currently its connected via HDMI. I am thinking of running a Coaxial from the player to the receiver via a DAC and this would be for Music only. So it would be switching sources at the receiver level from HDMI to Analog. Do you think this effort would yield better results?

MaSh

Hi,

You can test the analog out from philips 2180 BD if it has one.
I am using Pioneer BDP-160. Initially connected to AVR via HDMI for Movies/Music.
Later connected the analog out of BDP-160 to AVR analog in. I found this made Music more smooth and warmer. I have switched back and forth between HDMI and AnalogIn in AVR playing same track and there is a difference. Now for music I prefer the BDP Analog out - AVR connection ( Using the Inbuilt DAC in BDP ).

I think your plan of adding an external DAC should give much more better results.
 
For those on a budget, Raspberry Pi with a HiFiBerry DAC would be a good solution. However, for a little bit more you can get the entry level Schiit DAC which makes for a truly VFM product. The AQ DragonFly (at US prices) is also a good buy.

Any links for these?

Hi,

You can test the analog out from philips 2180 BD if it has one.
I am using Pioneer BDP-160. Initially connected to AVR via HDMI for Movies/Music.
Later connected the analog out of BDP-160 to AVR analog in. I found this made Music more smooth and warmer. I have switched back and forth between HDMI and AnalogIn in AVR playing same track and there is a difference. Now for music I prefer the BDP Analog out - AVR connection ( Using the Inbuilt DAC in BDP ).

I think your plan of adding an external DAC should give much more better results.

No analog plugs on the Philips. Only HDMI and Coaxial. The main reason for these to be as cheap as they are.
 
Huh!! Philips omitted an entire circuit.
MaSh, what AVR and L/R speakers do have?
Will send you a PM with my mobile number. If you are up to it, make a trip to south side of town this weekend. Lug your BD player and you can experiment at my place. I have the Schiit M2U.

Cheers,
Raghu
 
Huh!! Philips omitted an entire circuit.
MaSh, what AVR and L/R speakers do have?
Will send you a PM with my mobile number. If you are up to it, make a trip to south side of town this weekend. Lug your BD player and you can experiment at my place. I have the Schiit M2U.

Cheers,
Raghu

Yup they did.

I am using a Marantz 1504 with Polk Tsi200 speakers as front. Oh Sure, that would be great.
 
Yup they did.

I am using a Marantz 1504 with Polk Tsi200 speakers as front. Oh Sure, that would be great.

My speakers are KEF R300 or BW DM303.
The DACs in my chain (that can be tested on the set of speakers):
Schiit M2U (external)
Marantz NR1605 (built in) - should be similar to the one on 1504 (if not the same)
Onkyo DV-SP500 (built in)
Pana TV (built in)
ASUS MP (built in)
 
My speakers are KEF R300 or BW DM303.
The DACs in my chain (that can be tested on the set of speakers):
Schiit M2U (external)
Marantz NR1605 (built in) - should be similar to the one on 1504 (if not the same)
Onkyo DV-SP500 (built in)
Pana TV (built in)
ASUS MP (built in)

Sorry, got tied up this weekend. However, I was able to listen to FiiO D03K dac at a FMs place living close by. Came home and ordered it:eek:hyeah:.

I received the DAC today late after noon and after spending close to an hour figuring out the working of Assignable Inputs from the Bluray to the receiver I was able to listen to a few songs. The sound is much smoother and seems to have more detail. I will be able to listen to it properly only tomorrow when all alone at home.

MaSh
 
Sorry, got tied up this weekend. However, I was able to listen to FiiO D03K dac at a FMs place living close by. Came home and ordered it:eek:hyeah:.

I received the DAC today late after noon and after spending close to an hour figuring out the working of Assignable Inputs from the Bluray to the receiver I was able to listen to a few songs. The sound is much smoother and seems to have more detail. I will be able to listen to it properly only tomorrow when all alone at home.

MaSh

Nice!! Enjoy the new dac in the chain.
Cheers,
Raghu
 
Yeh will know tomorrow. For now, it sounds a bit flat compared to the sound coming from HDMI. Will listen more tomorrow.

With a new DAC you may hear new sounds (unlikely, unless the AVR's DAC is broken) but some instruments will sound detailed or weak/muffled.
This is simply because you are used to hearing the song set in a particular way (ear-brain mapping).
Introduce a new element (higher up in the chain), such as a new DAC, and things may seem a bit clinical at first. Get used to the new sound and then do some serious A/B testing.
As long as instruments don't sound dismembered from the music set, the brain will accept and be more receptive.

My ear-brain mapping said this when comparing DAC in CD player vs external DAC.
CD player's DAC has a much wider sound stage but seemed a bit "in the face"; not in a bad way though.
Ext DAC definitely has a smaller sound stage (not small enough to locate the speakers), but I seem to perceive some depth to instrumentation.
The ext DAC trumps the CD player in centering vocals.

Psycho-acoustics!! It is a very tricky, but real phenomenon.

Cheers,
Raghu
 
If you guys are planning for a meet to test out the DACs, kindly see if i can be invited as well. I am really keen on listening to the modern DACs. I can bring along my modded Adcom GDA600 as well.
 
With a new DAC you may hear new sounds (unlikely, unless the AVR's DAC is broken) but some instruments will sound detailed or weak/muffled.
This is simply because you are used to hearing the song set in a particular way (ear-brain mapping).
Introduce a new element (higher up in the chain), such as a new DAC, and things may seem a bit clinical at first. Get used to the new sound and then do some serious A/B testing.
As long as instruments don't sound dismembered from the music set, the brain will accept and be more receptive.

My ear-brain mapping said this when comparing DAC in CD player vs external DAC.
CD player's DAC has a much wider sound stage but seemed a bit "in the face"; not in a bad way though.
Ext DAC definitely has a smaller sound stage (not small enough to locate the speakers), but I seem to perceive some depth to instrumentation.
The ext DAC trumps the CD player in centering vocals.

Psycho-acoustics!! It is a very tricky, but real phenomenon.

Cheers,
Raghu

You summed up my thoughts perfectly. Yes the sound is different, in a wonderful way.

After bitstreaming the digital out from my player, the Stereo separation improved tremendously. The sound is now much much smoother compared to the HDMI source. The vocals are clear and not at all shrill which they are with HDMI source. The bass is also much tighter and the boominess is not there at all. It is now so much easier to listen to music for prolonged duration with out my ears getting tired.

Overall, I have no regrets at all integrating a DAC in the chain. This also cleared out the working of Assignable Inputs in my Marantz receiver. :clapping:

Can only imagine, what more expensive and main stream DACs can do. But that for later. Till then, need to organize my music collection better cos as my setup is improving, the difference between FLAC, high bitrate MP3 and the rest is getting apparent.

MaSh
 
Guys my DAC modi2 uber arrived and i hooked to my existing system macmini USB->modi2uber->rca out to denon rca in->tannoy speakers.

Definitely like the sound signature via this route, before i used to listen in stereo mode, but i can't listen for long time due to ear fatigue.But one thing i have noticed, the volume level is low when listening via DAC in pure direct mode compared to stereo mode.
 
Guys my DAC modi2 uber arrived and i hooked to my existing system macmini USB->modi2uber->rca out to denon rca in->tannoy speakers.

Definitely like the sound signature via this route, before i used to listen in stereo mode, but i can't listen for long time due to ear fatigue.But one thing i have noticed, the volume level is low when listening via DAC in pure direct mode compared to stereo mode.

Congrats on the arrival of the new DAC!! Post your observations after some more listening sessions.

Your Denon (and most other AVRs) pass the analog input through an ADC to apply DSP on it. Otherwise they cannot support all those fancy modes such as PL-II, Matrix, etc.
I suspect in "stereo" mode, the AVR is doing some loudness enhancement in digital domain (a very basic EQ operation). Direct mode passes the analog input directly to the pre-amp stage.
Your observations corroborate what I have heard on Marantz NR1605 in similar experiments.

Cheers,
Raghu
 
Guys my DAC modi2 uber arrived and i hooked to my existing system macmini USB->modi2uber->rca out to denon rca in->tannoy speakers.

Definitely like the sound signature via this route, before i used to listen in stereo mode, but i can't listen for long time due to ear fatigue.But one thing i have noticed, the volume level is low when listening via DAC in pure direct mode compared to stereo mode.

I came across a similar volume level issue with my DAC. Then I found out that there is a setting in "Input setup" called "Source Level". I went ahead and matched the "Analog Input" and "Digital Input" levels. I have a Marantz. I am not sure if you have the same menu on Denon.

Spandan.
 
Yes volume seems low when using dac. I tried increasing the signal level to compensate. However, it was still a bit inconvenient since the receiver would not allow me to share the same hdmi video source over two different inputs. So now my old dvd player had been brought back into service. A coaxial line goes from player to dac to Analog input of receiver. The video out goes to a video in on the receiver and then a monitor out from receiver to tv. My Marantz model does not upscale Analog video to hdmi out which is logical. Advantage now is that there is absolutely no chance of any digital signal mixing with Analog. The final output, is definitely much better, there is better depth to the music, bass is a bit weak i feel, so the sub level needs an increase of about 2db.

Still experimenting and improving the final output, every weekend. Dac makes one listen to even the not so great songs, just because they now sound so much better and don't tire the ears at all. Yet to try some good quality flacs and mp3. The dvd player does not have a usb and most of my music is now in external hard discs... So got to get hold of a cd writer to burn my music to cds. Never ending journey in a true sense...
 
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