Time Aligned Interconnect Cables

Rajatphile

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This goes both ways. At least the objective side is presenting an explanation.

The OP has three choices, and he's made two of these:
1) It sounds good to me, and I do not have a scientific explanation or data to back it up - Fair enough
2) I'll regurgitate something with no scientific basis - Pseudoscience
3) Tell someone they're wrong and give no explanation as to why - Haughtiness
A classic case of Heart Vs Mind or Subjectivity Vs Objectivity. Subjectivity many times negates data because one tends to enjoy irrespective how bad or good the measurements are. On the other hand Objectivity will negate impressions no matter how favorable they are unless they are accompanied by facts.

Music is subjective to everyone's unique experience - Jared Leto
 

vkalia

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I am sure the cables sound fantastic in the OP's system playing in his room. If the scientific explanation was only imperfect, I am sure we would all have pitched in to try and figure out the right explanation. But when someone argues that the moon is made of cheese, it's difficult to take things forward.

I get your point.

As I slowly creep towards adulthood, I have realised that not every argument has to be taken up and not everything that we perceive as incorrect on the internet has to be fixed. Especially in the world of audio and on an enthusiast forum (as opposed to, say, a peer review in a scientific journal).

Personally, I don’t think there are any notable sound differences in amps, let alone cables. If someone else thinks there are - more power to them. In the list of things that are wrong in the world, someone enjoying their music more for whatever reason (more refined hearing or placebo) is way down on the list of things to get bent out of shape over.

I’d rather use my time online to share my interest in audio with other enthusiasts and what they are excited about, rather than gnash my teeth and pick fights (I am not always successful, I admit, but I try).

In this case, someone has done something interesting with cables and while i don’t agree with their science either, proving them wrong is far less important to me than just sharing their passion. I can always just ignore the stuff that I don’t agree with.

TL;DR - just because one can, doesn’t mean one should.

YMMV.
 
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alpha1

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Micrometric and nanometric accuracy is not required for making a simple interconnect cable. You are probably being pedantic but do try and realise what tiny units of measurement micro and nano meters are. Your demand/expectation is plainly unrealistic and unreasonable. For home use, audio cables are usually specified/measured in feet or meter so even a millimeter or two here and there don't matter that much.
Would appreciate you make a similar response to Hair Iyer also. I am sure if there is a difference in speed of LF and MF signals but how much? And how are your ears gonna hear the few nanosecond lag between LF and HF signals?
 

jls001

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Would appreciate you make a similar response to Hair Iyer also. I am sure if there is a difference in speed of LF and MF signals but how much? And how are your ears gonna hear the few nanosecond lag between LF and HF signals?
I did try to make a point in post # 20 of this thread. To reiterate: the physics of signal propagation over a transmission line (wire) says the speed of propagation is independent of the frequency of the signal.
 

Dr.Gary

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Then can you show us some test data to validate what you hear? Nobody but you can hear exactly what you hear - or what anybody else hears for that matter. So we need to repeatable measurements so that others may experience the same results. That's how science works.

Dr Gary may in fact be wrong based solely on what you may hear. But he is far from wrong based on established and universally accepted scientific and engineering knowledge.
The most important skill for an engineer to develop is the ability to recognize when an answer is blatantly incorrect even though the engineer lacks the knowledge and/or ability to calculate the correct answer. In fact, the inability to recognize a blatantly incorrect answer is even worse than the inability to be able to calculate the correct answer.
 

arj

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@Hari Iyer , try it out and post it.

There are always reasons that can be given to not do something..but since its your own money and time and your passion, you have all the right to do it and maybe we will learn something from it.

Even if it works only for you and no one else, it is still worth it.

The most important skill for an engineer to develop is the ability to recognize when an answer is blatantly incorrect even though the engineer lacks the knowledge and/or ability to calculate the correct answer. In fact, the inability to recognize a blatantly incorrect answer is even worse than the inability to be able to calculate the correct answer.

Maybe we change from engineer mode to scientist mode where its the ability to try something new and test it out and define/redefine the boundaries of what is known , with the assumption that nothing is fully known the result is either to disprove or to further enhance the knowledge

Which then allows the engineer some more tools for the future.
 
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Dr.Gary

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@Hari Iyer , try it out and post it.

There are always reasons that can be given to not do something..but since its your own money and time and your passion, you have all the right to do it and maybe we will learn something from it.

Even if it works only for you and no one else, it is still worth it.



Maybe we change from engineer mode to scientist mode where its the ability to try something new and test it out and define/redefine the boundaries of what is known , with the assumption that nothing is fully known the result is either to disprove or to further enhance the knowledge

Which then allows the engineer some more tools for the future.
You can't just jump over engineering and into science. That's because engineering is a prerequisite that necessary in order to provide someone with the tools that are needed to be able to conduct scientific investigations. And, that's why one has to first spend four years as an undergraduate in engineering and then spend another four to seven years in graduate school before they can legitimately refer to themselves as a scientist and are actually able to conduct scientific research.
 

arj

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From what i understand, science is the study of knowledge, engineering is the study of application of the knowledge...So science will start with a question while engineering may be with a problem or a design

Again , while i personally am not sure of time alignment in cables, pulling down someone who wants to do it is simply against the spirit of science when he is neither spending time /money or resources from anyone else other than himself .
 
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Dr.Gary

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From what i understand, science is the study of knowledge, engineering is the study of application of the knowledge...So science will start with a question while engineering may be with a problem or a design

Again , while i personally am not sure of time alignment in cables, pulling down someone who wants to do it is simply against the spirit of science when he is neither spending time /money or resources from anyone else other than himself .
No one in this thread is either pulling down or attempting to pull down anyone. Furthermore, the issue is not about what someone has done or wants to do. The issue is about the preposterous assertion by the OP that "When music pass through the conductors, depending upon the conductor used the HF will be ahead by a few msec in time compared to MF and L" which is utter nonsense, which is demonstrably false, and which contradicts well-documented, well-established and universally accepted fact among engineers, mathematicians, physicists and scientists that wave propagation in a two-conductor electrical transmission line in the audible frequency range (and way beyond) is frequency independent.
 

bhooshaniyer

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I get your point.

As I slowly creep towards adulthood, I have realised that not every argument has to be taken up and not everything that we perceive as incorrect on the internet has to be fixed. Especially in the world of audio and on an enthusiast forum (as opposed to, say, a peer review in a scientific journal).

Personally, I don’t think there are any notable sound differences in amps, let alone cables. If someone else thinks there are - more power to them. In the list of things that are wrong in the world, someone enjoying their music more for whatever reason (more refined hearing or placebo) is way down on the list of things to get bent out of shape over.

I’d rather use my time online to share my interest in audio with other enthusiasts and what they are excited about, rather than gnash my teeth and pick fights (I am not always successful, I admit, but I try).

In this case, someone has done something interesting with cables and while i don’t agree with their science either, proving them wrong is far less important to me than just sharing their passion. I can always just ignore the stuff that I don’t agree with.

TL;DR - just because one can, doesn’t mean one should.

YMMV.
If you are saying " I can always just ignore the stuff that I don’t agree with." , then why didnt you practice it here?
 

raj12345

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If you are saying " I can always just ignore the stuff that I don’t agree with." , then why didnt you practice it here?
We must never oppose any criticism as its only the criticism that brings the issues in front of everyone otherwise it's a foolishness & totally biased sentiment to declare one side as winner 🏆🎉🏆. This thread clearly indicates that nobody wish to study & learn but only wish to follow ignorance only.
 

bhooshaniyer

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Listen...i saw an inconsistency in your otherwise reasoned argument. You used a line of argument that can be used against you - that's all i wanted to say. We preach not practice. i don't care whether you follow or ignore me. But it's pertinent to point out that we dish but won't take.
 

drlowmu

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Gary, while designing precision medical devices as well as in home audio, my experience with analog signal cables has been “Shorter the better”. Longer the cable, it’s surely going to be a tuned antenna for a particular frequency. 114 inch cable would definitely pickup more noise and interference than 57 one.

I didn’t mention power cables at all as their own EM Field is a problem irrespective of any length.

NOT in the experience of my audio Mentor, using his state of the art home audio system. 114 1/4 inches beat second best 57 1/8th inches, in each of two tested applications : speaker cable lengths, and in AC ( power @ 120 VAC ) cable lengths. It is SMART to not ignore what you hear !!!!

Of course short wires CAN be good, depends upon implementation, In Hari's KT88 SE DC amp, input wiring to control grid should be 2 inches or less, as it is in all of my amps, and my Mentor's.

Hari built and uses a VERY revealing audio amplifier, and I now happen to absolutely know it is MORE "in-time", than 99% of this world's existing tube amps. I would trust Hari can subjectively design cables nicely !!! Hari, all the nay-sayers are 100% NON LISTENERS to your cable. Ignore them........... and build, experiment , and listen. Have FUN !!

ASK each of them individually, what have you built, and listen to, and the conversation often suddenly gets quiet !!!!! Keep on listening Hari !!! Good job, re-read in this thread, my post #24.

Jeff
 
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drlowmu

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Thanks. Would you know if I use a long interconnect (XLR) of say 10 ft, would the degradation in signal be associated with power, dynamics, clarity or resolution?

I truly don't know.

I know in that " state of the art " audio system of my mentor, he needed a very long interconnect cable. He had it custom built at an out-of-pocket expense of either 12,000 USD or 20,000 USD, likely 12,000 USD. How much do you and I , and the folks reading and commenting in this post spend ???

Jeff
 
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Dr.Gary

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NOT in the experience of my audio Mentor, using his state of the art home audio system. 114 1/4 inches beat second best 57 1/8th inches, in each of two tested applications : speaker cable lengths, and in AC ( power @ 120 VAC ) cable lengths. It is SMART to not ignore what you hear !!!!

Of course short wires CAN be good, depends upon implementation, In Hari's KT88 SE DC amp, input wiring to control grid should be 2 inches or less, as it is in all of my amps, and my Mentor's.

Hari built and uses a VERY revealing audio amplifier, and I now happen to absolutely know it is MORE "in-time", than 99% of this world's existing tube amps. I would trust Hari can subjectively design cables nicely !!! Hari, all the nay-sayers are 100% NON LISTENERS to your cable. Ignore them........... and build, experiment , and listen. Have FUN !!

ASK each of them individually, what have you built, and listen to, and the conversation often suddenly gets quiet !!!!! Keep on listening Hari !!! Good job, re-read in this thread, my post #24.

Jeff
At the risk of raising the wrath of one or more of the moderators and possibly being banned, I feel that it is imperative to call attention to the gross devolution that has taken place in this thread on many levels. First of all, this thread pertains to "Time Alligned Interconnect Cables" and has no relevance whatsoever to either speaker cables or to bizarre claims of sonic differences associated with different lengths of power cords. Secondly, comments like " I now happen to absolutely know it is MORE "in-time", than 99% of this world's existing tube amps" are not only arrogant and preposterous, they are insulting and totally out of line in what is supposed to be a civilized, respectful forum like this. Lastly, what someone has built or listens to has no relevance whatsoever to calling attention to claims that are made which contradict decades of well-documented, well-established and universally-accepted principles in physics, mathematics, science and engineering.
I truly don't know.

I know in that " state of the art " audio system of my mentor, he needed a very long interconnect cable. He had it custom built at an out-of-pocket expense of either 12,000 USD or 20,000 USD, likely 12,000 USD. How much do you and I , and the folks reading and commenting in this post spend ???

Jeff
Back in the day, Bob Fulton sold two lengths of interconnect cables. One was nominally 57" long and the other was nominally 28' long. Fulton never mentioned anything about sonic differences between the two lengths. Furthermore, knowing Fulton, if there were sonic differences between the two lengths, it is not something that Fulton would have kept secret.
 
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