Urgent - Which Deck should I buy?

[jay]

Hi,

I am planning to buy a Deck ofcourse 2nd hand as new decks are now luxury in India.

I have 4 options :

1) Sansui D79R - 4500/-
2) Akai HXA1 - 3500/-
3) Nakamichi BX300 - 7500/-
4) Sonodyne 650 - 3000/-


All the above are in workable condition.

Can you guys please suggest which one should I go for? Or should I discard all of them and look for other options.

 

[greenhorn]

Things that I've learnt

CONDITION OF THE HEAD - I cannot emphasize this enough. if the head is worn out or replaced with a generic head, It's useless as the worn out/generic head will be a bottleneck to any decent single deck. Ask for a close up shot of the head or inspect it when you are checking it out. If the groove is deep enough for a nail to catch, then it's not really in the best shape.
Cosmetic condition - Sellers say all original parts, but then you'll find out there are things they conveniently forgot
Any Replacement parts - Capacitors, especially in the audio path, motors, belts - make a difference.

Among these 4 are all in good shape , Both the sansui and the Akai are 80's models, which appear to have been hit with some amount of cost cutting. but I have better experience with Akai.
The Nakamichi is the best. of course, you pay correspondingly.
The sonodyne - can't find any info on that model. generally they're not in the same league as the others.

If the Akai is in immaculate shape, buy that, but otherwise, it depends on teh condition of the decks.

And nothing can substitute for a proper inspection. You would be surprised at the number of things the seller conveniently forgets when he says "all original parts" and "100% working"

 

[reubensm]

To further what greenhorn has mentioned, inspect in person, play a good pre-recorded tape and listen to the speed/pitch, record and play back (many pre-used decks do not record for some technical reason or the other), check all other functionality including fast forward and rewind. Cosmetics are important, a neat and clean looking deck is often well cared for. Yellowed or blackened buttons indicate heavy ruthless use. Remember with cassette decks, original spares are always hard to come by. If you have the option to look inside, check for neatness of wiring, wiring clamps, solder blobs on the PCB, etc which could indicate whether the deck was opened or repaired. Prefer to buy servo conrolled decks as they are more reliable than the decks with mechanical keys, last longer and are easier to fix. Mechanical key type mechanisms tend to develop mechanical issues over a period of time due to wear and tear and rough handling. If the speed is wobbly (vow and flutter), complete avoid.

The NAK is the best of the lot. However I personally don't like its slider controls. Let the Sonodyne pass. Stay away from double cassette decks, also prefer to stay away from 3-head decks as once their heads wear off, they will end up becoming expensive paper weights. The flip side of NAKs is that they cannot be refurbished with spares from your friendly neighbourbood electronics bazaar. You'd have to go for imported OEM NAK spares which are not easy to find, and very expensive if you find them. Bottom line, a NAK in great condition is an investment of a life time.

 

[greenhorn]

record and play back (many pre-used decks do not record for some technical reason or the other)

forgot this - Also, switch between record and playback a couple of times. The switch that does this is rather big and complex, and tends to develop loose contacts somewhere eventually. even if you don't plan to record much, it can still cause problems with playback occasionally.

If the speed is wobbly (vow and flutter), complete avoid.

This is a bigger problem if the speed variation is intermittent. If it is consistent, it means a worn out belt or slipping pinch roller, Which still means work. If it is intermittent, then the motor, or some other part of the transport might be causing these issues. If the deck has a non standard motor (Direct drive, FG servo, DC Servo with seperate board) then it might cause problems.

 

[jay]

Hi Greenhorn,

Thanks a ton buddy for the inputs.

Need few clarifications :

1) How will I understand the Head is original or replaced one?
2) If the groove is deep enough for a nail to catch, then it's not really in the best shape----------> Can you please explain this as what do u mean by the same?

Things that I've learnt

CONDITION OF THE HEAD - I cannot emphasize this enough. if the head is worn out or replaced with a generic head, It's useless as the worn out/generic head will be a bottleneck to any decent single deck. Ask for a close up shot of the head or inspect it when you are checking it out. If the groove is deep enough for a nail to catch, then it's not really in the best shape.
Cosmetic condition - Sellers say all original parts, but then you'll find out there are things they conveniently forgot
Any Replacement parts - Capacitors, especially in the audio path, motors, belts - make a difference.

Among these 4 are all in good shape , Both the sansui and the Akai are 80's models, which appear to have been hit with some amount of cost cutting. but I have better experience with Akai.
The Nakamichi is the best. of course, you pay correspondingly.
The sonodyne - can't find any info on that model. generally they're not in the same league as the others.

If the Akai is in immaculate shape, buy that, but otherwise, it depends on teh condition of the decks.

And nothing can substitute for a proper inspection. You would be surprised at the number of things the seller conveniently forgets when he says "all original parts" and "100% working"

 

[jay]

This is a bigger problem if the speed variation is intermittent. If it is consistent, it means a worn out belt or slipping pinch roller, Which still means work. If it is intermittent, then the motor, or some other part of the transport might be causing these issues. If the deck has a non standard motor (Direct drive, FG servo, DC Servo with seperate board) then it might cause problems.

By speed u mean to say the speed at which the tape runs I guess. Well that can be guaged by a careful listening.Isn't it?

 

[jay]

Prefer to buy servo conrolled decks as they are more reliable than the decks with mechanical keys, last longer and are easier to fix. .

Can you please explain what is a Servo controlled deck?

 

[jay]

The NAK is the best of the lot. However I personally don't like its slider controls. Let the Sonodyne pass. Stay away from double cassette decks, also prefer to stay away from 3-head decks as once their heads wear off, they will end up becoming expensive paper weights. The flip side of NAKs is that they cannot be refurbished with spares from your friendly neighbourbood electronics bazaar. You'd have to go for imported OEM NAK spares which are not easy to find, and very expensive if you find them. Bottom line, a NAK in great condition is an investment of a life time.

But BX300 is a 3 Head Deck.

Thanks a lot for ur inputs Reubensm. The issue is how do I understand seeing a player whether its in great condition or not. Only after careful playing few times will make one realise what are the grey areas which needs attention.Isn't it?

 

[greenhorn]

1) How will I understand the Head is original or replaced one?

This is a bit tough - if you can get hold of a service manual, or look up the part no of the head, and see if it matches the head, or look for pics people might have posted online of this deck or similar decks
or check out the soldering of the wires to the head , and the generic local heads tend to look the same - this usually comes with experience

2) If the groove is deep enough for a nail to catch, then it's not really in the best shape----------> Can you please explain this as what do u mean by the same?

The top of the head is curved, or slightly angled/projected. With regular use, the tape wears a groove in the head as it is constantly running over the head.http://www.amp-fix.com/image file 2/IC Copicats/Worn super ic head reduced size.jpg

By speed u mean to say the speed at which the tape runs I guess. Well that can be guaged by a careful listening.Isn't it?

Yes. Use it for some amount of time, Try Forward, rewind, pause, auto stop etc

Can you please explain what is a Servo controlled deck?

These are teh ones with feather touch countrols, not the ones with the Big keys that need to be pressed down with some effort.

 

[jay]

Thanks a lot greenhorn for the clarifications.

Akai and Sansui MODELS mentioned above doesn't fetch much good feedback in the NET.

 

[greenhorn]

Akai's glass head decks (GXC etc series) are well known and awesome. The ones you have mentioned seem to be a later series. I have a CS-F9 and CS-M02 - the M02 unfortunately was in near scrap condition, with a generic head and one channel not working - I found that out after buying. Some tech had shorted the channels together at the preamp output to get sound out of both channels. But the deck is very well built.

Sansui Decks are not that famous. They have some very high end decks built during the 70's. I have a D95 (which is currently under restoration) and a D90 which is with a friend in another city, and I need to pick up. both are basic decks, no great shakes.

The akai was the best of the lot. I had bought it from a private seller for 800! . he had bought it from abroad, and one of its motors failed ( it was a 2 motor deck) so he had not used it much. so everything was in more or less pristine shape when i got it! It sounds the best in my collection!

 

[jay]

Akai's glass head decks (GXC etc series) are well known and awesome. The ones you have mentioned seem to be a later series. I have a CS-F9 and CS-M02 - the M02 unfortunately was in near scrap condition, with a generic head and one channel not working - I found that out after buying. Some tech had shorted the channels together at the preamp output to get sound out of both channels. But the deck is very well built.

Sansui Decks are not that famous. They have some very high end decks built during the 70's. I have a D95 (which is currently under restoration) and a D90 which is with a friend in another city, and I need to pick up. both are basic decks, no great shakes.

The akai was the best of the lot. I had bought it from a private seller for 800! . he had bought it from abroad, and one of its motors failed ( it was a 2 motor deck) so he had not used it much. so everything was in more or less pristine shape when i got it! It sounds the best in my collection!

Thanks.

But had a look at the GXC 740D. Doesn't look like a Servo Controlled deck.

 

[greenhorn]

if the head of the GXC740D is in good shape, buy it! How much is the seller asking for it ?

its a very well made deck, and the mechanism should be well made. The rest of it is so much better that it's okay to overlook the fact that it is servo controlled.

 

[jay]

if the head of the GXC740D is in good shape, buy it! How much is the seller asking for it ?

its a very well made deck, and the mechanism should be well made. The rest of it is so much better that it's okay to overlook the fact that it is servo controlled.

What about GXC710D?

 

[greenhorn]

seems to be a simpler design. two head, single capstan. Better reliablity, slightly lesser performance. Where are you getting these decks from? how much are they costing you?

 

[jay]

seems to be a simpler design. two head, single capstan. Better reliablity, slightly lesser performance. Where are you getting these decks from? how much are they costing you?

OLIX the online site

 

[jay]

Any input u can give me on Akai CS-M02. One of the vendors confirmed me availability of this piece.

 

[greenhorn]

the one I have is literally in semi working condition, and doesnt sound that good with a local head. I'd suggest the GX series over the CS. the CS M02 is okay, though it's not exceptional. Whether you should buy it or not depends.

PS: if you don't end up buying it, I'd like to - I'm missing a few parts for mine(loading tray, knobs, transistors for one channel, Cassette compartment backlight) Please PM me the details - Price, dealer etc

 

[jay]

the one I have is literally in semi working condition, and doesnt sound that good with a local head. I'd suggest the GX series over the CS. the CS M02 is okay, though it's not exceptional. Whether you should buy it or not depends.

PS: if you don't end up buying it, I'd like to - I'm missing a few parts for mine(loading tray, knobs, transistors for one channel, Cassette compartment backlight) Please PM me the details - Price, dealer etc

Thanks for the input mate.

I have plans for buying the CS - M02 only if I find it in great condition. But knwoing this vendor for long I can try for another spare piece for u as well.Will keep u posted.

 

[reubensm]

Can you please explain what is a Servo controlled deck?

a servo control deck uses electronics coupled with motors to trigger the functionality of your deck's mechanism. The buttons for play, fast forward, rewind, etc are usually gentle push buttons or touch buttons.

a deck with the old mechanicals usually has metallic levers that are physically pushed and engage based on spring action. These were common staple on decks of the 1960s and 1970s and also on some of the mass market ones of the early 1980s.