which tube?

[nandac]

i interested in getting into tubes. but not sure which tube amp to buy.

i listen to a lot of rock n roll, blues, jazz, some metal etc.

i already have a naim and musical fidelity setup for loud rock music.

what i am currently looking for is a system to hear at low or moderate volumes at night. what i want to listen at night is soft rock, blues, jazz etc. like nick drake's 'eight leaves left', simon and garfunkel, cooking with the miles davis quintet, thelonius monk's 'brilliant corners', Coltrane's 'lush life', buddy guy's 'a man and the blues', some Carnatic, some old tamil and hindi movie songs etc.

so i am not really looking for 'slam' or 'grunt'. and i want it to be more versatile than only playing 'a girl and a guitar' kind of music. and i don't particularly prefer it to sound like solid state - like kt88 is supposed to? i would rather prefer it to convey the magic of tubes.

so which tube based amp to go for - 300b, el84, kt88, el34 etc?

single ended or push and pull?

appreciate the insights.

 

[indialogue]

i interested in getting into tubes. but not sure which tube amp to buy.

i listen to a lot of rock n roll, blues, jazz, some metal etc.

i already have a naim and musical fidelity setup for loud rock music.

what i am currently looking for is a system to hear at low or moderate volumes at night. what i want to listen at night is soft rock, blues, jazz etc. like nick drake's 'eight leaves left', simon and garfunkel, cooking with the miles davis quintet, thelonius monk's 'brilliant corners', Coltrane's 'lush life', buddy guy's 'a man and the blues', some Carnatic, some old tamil and hindi movie songs etc.

so i am not really looking for 'slam' or 'grunt'. and i want it to be more versatile than only playing 'a girl and a guitar' kind of music. and i don't particularly prefer it to sound like solid state - like kt88 is supposed to? i would rather prefer it to convey the magic of tubes.

so which tube based amp to go for - 300b, el84, kt88, el34 etc?

single ended or push and pull?

appreciate the insights.

Knowing your budget would help too!

 

[GeorgeO]

SE are generally low power and Class A are best suited for high sensitivity speakers, PP can handle all.

 

[noknor]

If tube amps get faulty, what are the options available in India to get them fixed?
Do we get the same tubes here in India?

 

[nandac]

I am not asking which amp to buy. but rather which tube I should base my amp purchase on. for example triode corp of japan has different amps based on 300b, el34, el84, kt88 etc. I need to know which one to buy which will go well with my intended use.

 

[GeorgeO]

You do realise that the same valve can be used in PP and SET designs right? The same valve can be used in Class A and Class AB. So the question then doesn't boil down to which valve but which amp.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

If tube amps get faulty, what are the options available in India to get them fixed?

You're in Chennai, so I guess you just go to Mr Sayeed, Hifi repairer "by appointment" to local HFVers. Last time I met him he told me that his greatest enthusiasm was for tube amps

 

[nandac]

You do realise that the same valve can be used in PP and SET designs right? The same valve can be used in Class A and Class AB. So the question then doesn't boil down to which valve but which amp.

but whether a tube is set in class a or a/b or as a set or pp, still the nature of the tube is the same? or can a 300b based on the design rock like kt88?

I just came back from Adelphi. heard some coltrane and beatles on unison research's simply Italy. hoodoo man blues on audio note kits amp. saw audio space amps. and the cary audio dealer told me about coincident's new 34 se which apparently is only $1200 usd. wanted to hear almarro, but couldn't locate the shop.

 

[Shahrukh]

The Almarro shop is on the ground floor.

 

[GeorgeO]

I meant that the same valve can be used in different designs. The real question relates to your speakers-how much power do they need to perform well.Remember the synergy between amps and speakers is what is really going to do the trick-you cannot use low sensitivity speakers with a low power amp. What is the sentivity of your speakers? If they need power to drive them then you need an appropriate amp.Or if you plan to get a pair of high sensitivity speakers to use with a low power SET amp then I guess it deosnt really matter.

 

[vivek.saikia]

You can try out 6L6 based tube amps.
6L6 are considered to be well balanced and detailed.

I am using a Dared i30 tube amp based on 6L6 and I love the sound signature.

 

[bras]

Here in Portugal for entry level in valves world with very good price for the quality is Dynavox VR70 its a power with 40w but you can plug one source and play. (made in china for german label,like Vincent and TAC)

 

[ranjeetrain]

I am not asking which amp to buy. but rather which tube I should base my amp purchase on. for example triode corp of japan has different amps based on 300b, el34, el84, kt88 etc. I need to know which one to buy which will go well with my intended use.

You do realise that the same valve can be used in PP and SET designs right? The same valve can be used in Class A and Class AB. So the question then doesn't boil down to which valve but which amp.

Completely agree with George.

Tubes do have their own characteristic, but just the type of the tube isn't everything. It's the implementation that matters. Even more importantly it's the pairing with the speaker that matters the most.

i listen to a lot of rock n roll, blues, jazz, some metal etc.

i already have a naim and musical fidelity setup for loud rock music.

what i am currently looking for is a system to hear at low or moderate volumes at night. what i want to listen at night is soft rock, blues, jazz etc. like nick drake's 'eight leaves left', simon and garfunkel, cooking with the miles davis quintet, thelonius monk's 'brilliant corners', Coltrane's 'lush life', buddy guy's 'a man and the blues', some Carnatic, some old tamil and hindi movie songs etc.

so i am not really looking for 'slam' or 'grunt'. and i want it to be more versatile than only playing 'a girl and a guitar' kind of music. and i don't particularly prefer it to sound like solid state - like kt88 is supposed to? i would rather prefer it to convey the magic of tubes.

so which tube based amp to go for - 300b, el84, kt88, el34 etc?

single ended or push and pull?

With that criteria, I would prefer an EL34/EL84/2A3 based SE amp, even better if class A.

 

[captrajesh]

@OP, the choice of tube amp depends solely on the type of speakers one has.

The amps that showcase that typically showcase the 'Tube Magic' (An apt term to describe would be tube ka nazaqat; Can't think of an equivalent term in English) are the SET (Single Ended Triode) amps, generally speaking. Since these have only one output tube per channel, they are low on power delivery; something like 2-3 Watts RMS in case of typically available SET amps based on 300B or 2A3 tubes. If your speakers have a sensitivity of more than 95 dB, they can truly float your boat if music one listens to music that is typically dominated by midrange content like, Carnatic, Jazz and the likes. There are some high powered (relatively speaking) SET amps based on high powered tubes like GM70 and 845 that can belt out as much as 35 Watts RMS per channel too that can drive speakers with medium sensitivity in the range of 88 to 89 dB.

Then there are tube amps that work on Push-Pull topology. Some of these are Class A and some are Class AB. Typically available ones are based on EL34 or KT88 tubes; Some employ 6L6 tubes. Their power output ranges from 35 to 60 Watts RMS. Some designs have multiple output tubes belting out 100 plus watts!

Now coming to your question of which tube, well that depends on how the design is implemented. I have owned/ listened to all the above amps and they all sound different. To give an example; I once auditioned a EL34 based MT35 from Cayin in my set p comprising Cadence Arista speakers. Though it is an entry level amp, it sounded so good that I got carried away and bought another EL34 based tube amp TA30, a higher model from the same company blind. The latter had oodles of power and can put any SS amp to shame in the slam department, it had none of the tube magic. Believe you me, both have similar tubes but sound very different.

So it all depends on what your speakers are and how they match with the amp; it is only the synergy between them and the amp that matters.

 

[sunder]

@OP, the choice of tube amp depends solely on the type of speakers one has.

The amps that showcase that typically showcase the 'Tube Magic' (An apt term to describe would be tube ka nazaqat; Can't think of an equivalent term in English) are the SET (Single Ended Triode) amps, generally speaking. Since these have only one output tube per channel, they are low on power delivery; something like 2-3 Watts RMS in case of typically available SET amps based on 300B or 2A3 tubes. If your speakers have a sensitivity of more than 95 dB, they can truly float your boat if music one listens to music that is typically dominated by midrange content like, Carnatic, Jazz and the likes. There are some high powered (relatively speaking) SET amps based on high powered tubes like GM70 and 845 that can belt out as much as 35 Watts RMS per channel too that can drive speakers with medium sensitivity in the range of 88 to 89 dB.

Then there are tube amps that work on Push-Pull topology. Some of these are Class A and some are Class AB. Typically available ones are based on EL34 or KT88 tubes; Some employ 6L6 tubes. Their power output ranges from 35 to 60 Watts RMS. Some designs have multiple output tubes belting out 100 plus watts!

Now coming to your question of which tube, well that depends on how the design is implemented. I have owned/ listened to all the above amps and they all sound different. To give an example; I once auditioned a EL34 based MT35 from Cayin in my set p comprising Cadence Arista speakers. Though it is an entry level amp, it sounded so good that I got carried away and bought another EL34 based tube amp TA30, a higher model from the same company blind. The latter had oodles of power and can put any SS amp to shame in the slam department, it had none of the tube magic. Believe you me, both have similar tubes but sound very different.

So it all depends on what your speakers are and how they match with the amp; it is only the synergy between them and the amp that matters.

Captain, will GM70 drive my Spendor S3/5R2? It's sensitivity is 85dB. Generally, it is said that tube pre & SS power will sing better than tube pre & tube power or SS pre & tube power. In your experience what did you feel? In high powered SETs (GM70 or 845), which one is suitable to Indian classical, western classical, Jazz vocal & Old film music using with two way speakers (Not vintage full range alnico) ? Can we hear the tube magic?
Will Cadedence VA1 drive the low sensitive spendors?
Thank you,
Regards.

 

[GeorgeO]

IMHO ss preamps are also a good combo, but YMMV.

 

[stevieboy]

I am not asking which amp to buy. but rather which tube I should base my amp purchase on. for example triode corp of japan has different amps based on 300b, el34, el84, kt88 etc. I need to know which one to buy which will go well with my intended use.

Hi Nandac,

Each tube has a signature sound. The toplogy push pull or SET will then determine just how much of that magic comes through and what qualities come through. And the designer of the amp will then decide what qualities of the tube he wants to have shining through more. Three factors that will influence final sound.

In my opinion, there's no way a 300b amp will compare to an 845 amp. Each will have a basic sound signature with variations based on above factors.

In your first post you mention slam and grunt not essential. So it seems you want more caress and magic. In my opinion out goes the 845, the kt88, the el34.

Explore the 300b, the 2A3, the 45 families of tubes.

The el84 has a very bluesy hard driving feel.

Also each brand of tube within a family like 45 family or 12AX7s family will sound different and get you closer to your ideal sound signature.

The net will give you a fair idea of how each tube sounds if you read enough reviews to filter out and retain key differences.

Have fun enjoy and if you want to listen to a 2A3 amp (I use 45s mainly now, but the 2A3 tubes are still there), you can drop in sometime Jan onwards.

Regards

 

[aks07]

Considering his requirements:

- Low level listening in Bedroom = Less possibilities of having a High Sensitive (read large size) loudspeaker.
- Genre of music

My choice will be :

1. EL84 in PP. UL with a little feedback
2. 6L6GT in PP. I don't know if there are any commercial ones available with triode connected. DIY is possible and will be the best sounding of the lot.
3. EL34 in triode PP. No feedback. Preferably in a balanced topology,

From a practical point of view I wont use something like 300B or 845 SE DHT considering the amount of wasted heat it will introduce in a bedroom. It is different matter if you live in a cold and quite country.

Had it been for the living room, and if there are no other constraints, then the choice is easy. 845 DHT. It can thrash the daylights out of any modern day Solid State amp in slam, glam and bang.

 

[soulforged]

For rock and jazz, I've had good experience with 6C33C, 845 and EL84. The last one being a PP design and the others SE...

I've heard very good things about 300B for this genre of music but have no experience...

A lot would also depends on which speaker you are going with

 

[Dr.Bass]

Nandac, you must have got a fair idea by now on which tube sounds like what. The general rule is, the lower output tubes have offer more magic. So it all comes down to what is the lowest power that you can happily live with.

Even though you have not asked for it still another general rule that I would like point out is, for rock n roll, blues and similar genre of music push-pull works better.