Why are you targetting us?

[murali]

mridulgoel , you can be sure that people will ask you questions --- when they want to. There will be no conflict of interests, because this site is not called, or intended to be, "Meet the dealers".

Frankly, this thread seems to be a lot of fuss about nothing, or about things that could have been cleared up by PM. On the one hand, the site will develop and change, this will include times when, maybe, there is uncertainty about what should have been included or not. Nobody's ever been a moderator, deleted something, and got a message saying that was unreasonable, tight-arsed and downright unnecessary --- and thought, the guy is right!? It happens.

If you want completely consistent moderating, you have to employ judges, at the very least: otherwise, the human bit comes in.

I'd say this site needs four or five mods. I am not volunteering: Been there, done that, and it becomes (if you have no day job to keep your mind off it) like a job you can't let go of --- well, that's true for those of us with a touch of internet addiction, anyway. Hey... I can handle it

Just two more comments, if I may, before I withdraw completely from this "controversial" thread...

Why is it that our Indian psyche never changes from craving for 'elderly' interventions in the form of moderating, censoring etc whenever it comes to expressing oneself and face realities? If you see yesteryears' starlets like Sharmila Tagore or Asha Parekh now chairpersoning Censor board and deciding what is good and what is bad for the public, but who in their younger and productive days were never ashamed of projecting their assets in front of the public and leaving little for imagination, what is the moral standing? Let us not forget that Internet has evolved without such moderations and censorship and the moral of the story is that we now live in a world where people's individuality and judgment are respected and their ability to decide themselves what is good and what is bad is recognised. I am in my late fifties and find a huge difference from the way I was brought up within stifling environments (where someone else decides things for you) and the way my kids grow up in a more liberal surrounding with responsibilities vested with authority to take decisions themselves. I believe we have progressed in this direction in life.

The other nasty feeling I am getting after reading all these posts is whether there is a concerted effort among "some" to orient this forum more towards local business people dealing and/or distributing equipment rather than making this a venue to learn more and exchange experiences and thoughts in audio/video related matter. As I had often said in the past, music is universal and the moment one tries to draw border lines, the sanctity is lost. If this is the direction, I will feel sad but will have no option but to withdraw all my "2 cents" from this forum in future.

Good luck to all of you and keep enjoying your music and films.

murali

 

[santhosh]

@Santhol: Buddy, we've interacted enough and I think in your heart you know I don't have any such feelings.

Yes my friend, we have interacted umpteen number of times and have interacted with anm too on few occassions. I know you definitely don't have such feelings. But if you are getting these vibes and feel some others too think likewise, then this definitely needs to be resolved as it is not good for the health of the forum.

And I absolutely agree about issues browsing over phone.

 

[anm]

dear santhol - pls do not judge me based on what ajinkya wrote about me, without actually reading what I have said. Where have I brought the north/ south angle? I can sense your emotions running high because IF YOU CHOOSE to divide on north/ south yourself, I sit on the other side of the fence. I have pointed to most unbalanced remarks of Venkat including "china made products are shit", "delhiwalas are thieves" and what not. I am opposing such blanket statements that Venkat keeps on throwing at us and the entire forum. And lot of people believe him based on number of posts, thanks etc he has acquired. And yes, the moderator status too.

I may have challenged Venkat's such immature statements for which he may be targeting me, but that's just my guess. He may have other reasons, like moderator's responsibility, though that doesn't seem to be the case.

I know I am very direct at leveling charges against Venkat, and I am not hiding it behind any subtle hints. Some people do not like it and call it "witch hunting". If I do it indirectly, others would say stop being sarcastic and indirect and name the person. So it is for an individual to decide whether he likes direct approach to bring this to an end, or like games.

Regarding sorting it out in PM - I have not received a single PM from those who suggest this. Not even from Venkat that this can be sorted in PM. BTW, I am at 99% so one last PM - at least one guy can do what he preaches?

+1 to that.

@anm/malvai: What is this thing about Delhi Wallahs/North Indians buddy? Why do you have to bring in that angle to a discussion? Sorry buddy, IMO this was in bad taste and did not expect from a senior member like you.


We need more moderators for sure given that one or both moderators may be busy with personal problems and may not be able to focus on moderation. Maybe we need some North-Indian moderators too. But how to find out who is North-Indian and who is not? Especially with handles like buswal, teky, gobble, anm, cooltoad, heliumflight, soulforged, madbullram etc.

 

[anm]

removing as I commented on an off topic post, which would steer it to more off topic comments.

 

[square_wave]

Just two more comments, if I may, before I withdraw completely from this "controversial" thread...

Why is it that our Indian psyche never changes from craving for 'elderly' interventions in the form of moderating, censoring etc whenever it comes to expressing oneself and face realities? If you see yesteryears' starlets like Sharmila Tagore or Asha Parekh now chairpersoning Censor board and deciding what is good and what is bad for the public, but who in their younger and productive days were never ashamed of projecting their assets in front of the public and leaving little for imagination, what is the moral standing? Let us not forget that Internet has evolved without such moderations and censorship and the moral of the story is that we now live in a world where people's individuality and judgment are respected and their ability to decide themselves what is good and what is bad is recognised. I am in my late fifties and find a huge difference from the way I was brought up within stifling environments (where someone else decides things for you) and the way my kids grow up in a more liberal surrounding with responsibilities vested with authority to take decisions themselves. I believe we have progressed in this direction in life.

The other nasty feeling I am getting after reading all these posts is whether there is a concerted effort among "some" to orient this forum more towards local business people dealing and/or distributing equipment rather than making this a venue to learn more and exchange experiences and thoughts in audio/video related matter. As I had often said in the past, music is universal and the moment one tries to draw border lines, the sanctity is lost. If this is the direction, I will feel sad but will have no option but to withdraw all my "2 cents" from this forum in future.

Good luck to all of you and keep enjoying your music and films.

murali

I am in complete agreement with this.

Liberated and erudite discussion about AV is what the forum ought to be. Regionalism, prejudices, flag-waving and deification of people need to be weeded out.

 

[ajay124]

@murali
"Why is it that our Indian psyche never changes from craving for 'elderly' interventions in the form of moderating, censoring etc whenever it comes to expressing oneself and face realities? If you see yesteryears' starlets like Sharmila Tagore or Asha Parekh now chairpersoning Censor board and deciding what is good and what is bad for the public, but who in their younger and productive days were never ashamed of projecting their assets in front of the public and leaving little for imagination, what is the moral standing? Let us not forget that Internet has evolved without such moderations and censorship and the moral of the story is that we now live in a world where people's individuality and judgment are respected and their ability to decide themselves what is good and what is bad is recognised. I am in my late fifties and find a huge difference from the way I was brought up within stifling environments (where someone else decides things for you) and the way my kids grow up in a more liberal surrounding with responsibilities vested with authority to take decisions themselves."
Bravo!

I believe that Television/Bollywood/Hollywood is completely,hopelessly regressive,prejudiced and barbarian.Yeah!Hollywood too!It has never shed its Victorian strings.Never will.The influence of Ingmar Bergman was a blast of fresh air but has now been hidden away like a guilty secret.But the internet,if left alone, will free future generations of Indians from clinging too much to their mama and papa's aprons.The majority of Indian parents treat small children like pets to be cuddled or cudgeled according to what kind of day they are having.Many of these kids especially the girls grow up to be sweet obedient pets but never become free and independent adults.When will the majority of Indian girls/women learn to stand up to the relentless bullying of brothers/boy friends/husbands/mother in laws?Ditto for many Indian'boys'
I would go along with my favorite singer Phil Ochs' words...And since I left my parents I've forgotten how to bow/And if I've got to something to say sir,I'm gonna say it now....Or my ex-favorite singer Dylan's words..Come mothers and fathers through out the land/Please don't critcize what you can't understand/Your sons and your daughter's are beyond your command/For The Times They Are A-Changing.
Incidentally sooner or later lets put all rancor behind us and get on with the forum.As always truth resides in both camps.I empathise with Malvai/Anm/Door's 666 positions.But I also feel that a Mod's job is as difficult and thankless as a government leader's.No action they take can ever please the vast cauldron of opinions which is our live and functioning democracy.As Mick Jagger hollers ---Struck between a Rock!And a haaaaaard place.

 

[saikat]

so now you have to decide which side you wanna be... as i am expecting conflict from only people who are BS....

Reminds me of the Emperor's New Clothes!

 

[arj]

The other nasty feeling I am getting after reading all these posts is whether there is a concerted effort among "some" to orient this forum more towards local business people dealing and/or distributing equipment rather than making this a venue to learn more and exchange experiences and thoughts in audio/video related matter. As I had often said in the past, music is universal and the moment one tries to draw border lines, the sanctity is lost. If this is the direction, I will feel sad but will have no option but to withdraw all my "2 cents" from this forum in future.

Very nice words Murali.
The forum lost quite a few knowledgeable gems who were an asset. personally learnt so much from them and they were taking this forum to another level in discussions.

sadly we have gone back on informative discussions since then.. I for one really miss those great discussions we used to have when Asit/cranky/audioengr etc were around :sad:

 

[dinyaar]

Yes Sir, thats what i said, some people (though your name was not included), wants to take the normal members for ride, show them ultra special features, and then leave them half the way, is that wt you mean...
you may have seen the commercial tag in front of my name, but that doesnt mean, that i am only talkin on favour of commercial facts, if you ask the pld members, or see my joining date i have been a member since last more than 2yrs... so i better believe in helping people than gaining.. and moreover if people are getting direct prices and service from the company directly there is no harm...

so now you have to decide which side you wanna be... as i am expecting conflict from only people who are BS....

Mr Goel,
What exactly are u saying?
Who is taking members for a ride?
What is there to take sides?


I have gone thru the thread and Manav and a few others are irked and am sure will resolve their differences but the above and the previous comment is pretty bizarre to say the least.

I would be the last person to Report posts to a moderator, but if I did, this post and your earlier one would top my list!!!!
Its great that your policy is "helping people more than gaining" !!!

Rgds

 

[madbullram]

I was away with a family commitment and just went through each post. Here is my take:

1. Anm: Your question of why your post was deleted when a Mouse Trap thread was not is valid. I am also in a way responsible for this and appologise for that. We were seeing growing non-HiFi threads in chit chat and we decided to start deleting posts on this. It so happened yours was the first one. I think it should have communicated this and started deleting it instead of just deleting one post. I can assure you that there was no personal reason or anything towards this. Sorry for that.

2. Saying Venkat is against North Indians in whatever context it is, is purely tasteless and unwarranted. I strongly condemn that statement.

3. Chit -Chat: Please read the description "Discuss anything related to audio video not covered in the other forums." I think it clearly states it should be only related to A/V.

My suggestion:
1. Have a A/V Chit-Chat section which will have chit chats based on A/V. This will help us to discuss when we have multi-equipments being discussed.
2. Also, create a sub-section "Generic Chit-Chat" which is for anything other than A/V. This forum will not feature on Search or Unread Thread search links.

This will ensure that objectives and rules are clear.

 

[anm]

thanks mad. Very objective response and I appreciate that.

Your suggestion #2 is what was going through my mind also.

 

[raj]

3. Chit -Chat: Please read the description "Discuss anything related to audio video not covered in the

I completely missed that. Did not realize it till you pointed out here.

other forums." I think it clearly states it should be only related to A/V.

My suggestion:
1. Have a A/V Chit-Chat section which will have chit chats based on A/V. This will help us to discuss when we have multi-equipments being discussed.
2. Also, create a sub-section "Generic Chit-Chat" which is for anything other than A/V. This forum will not feature on Search or Unread Thread search links.

This will ensure that objectives and rules are clear.

Seems like a good idea.

 

[ajinkya]

Dear Ajikya, please do not spread misinformation about me. Give me the specific quote where I have made the following allegation. It was Venkat who called Delhiwalas thieves (stealing power from the grid)! It was completely uncalled for. But even then I never said he was partial to north Indians.
On a side note - Statements like those from Venkat doesn't speak well of him on that front.

Anm,

I owe you an unconditional apology for misquoting you. I went through the thread again, and realise that Malvai was the first one to bring out the north angle...responding to your 'delhiwalas' quote. So, it was him and not you. I stand corrected.

Since the thread was so long, by the time I started responding to it, the sequence of who said what was jumbled in my mind. But in any case, that's not an excuse, and I do offer my apologies.

@theKinge, I think your post also incorrectly mentions anm somewhere for this quote. Please correct that if you can.

Thanks,
Jinx.

 

[malvai]

Anm,

I owe you an unconditional apology for misquoting you. I went through the thread again, and realise that Malvai was the first one to bring out the north angle...responding to your 'delhiwalas' quote. So, it was him and not you. I stand corrected.

Thanks,
Jinx.

Hey, maybe I read too much into what anm was saying. I unconditionally apologise for that. having said that, i must bring to your notice sevral other posts in this thread itself, where people feel this. So, maybe there is something that is making people feel this way.

If there is something it should be corrected.

 

[ajinkya]

Hey, maybe I read too much into what anm was saying. I unconditionally apologise for that. having said that, i must bring to your notice sevral other posts in this thread itself, where people feel this. So, maybe there is something that is making people feel this way.

If there is something it should be corrected.

Malvai,

Thanks for the clarification from your side. Yes, I saw other posts on this issue as well, and I am surprised by this undercurrent, which I never personally noticed nor endorse. I always like to think of India as one, and Indians as living in different parts of it, rather than labeling them as such. Of course, there are always stereotypes...some of which are based on averaged, generalised behaviour of the population.

I think the best thing for the other members who feel this way is to sort this out with Venkat himself, rather than have more discussion among us. I am sure whatever misunderstandings have come up can be easily cleared up.

PS: And I do agree that sending posts from a mobile phone is cumbersome as well which explains your lengthy reply post to shaizada. Thanks for explaining that.

 

[mridulgoel]

Your post below should explain why


You are suggesting that members' questions be directed to distributors in HFV and those members should not get suggestions from other HFV members! If that is not a blatant conflict of interest, I don't know what is!!

Bro, there is another way to look at my comment...

I never stated that enquiries should be re-directed in order to make it commercial...
But, how will you term people who PM the new guyz looking for a system, quote them a good price, supply them products (1 New, 2 Demo & 1 Used and Re-Packed)...out of 4 cases i have come across...and then supply local cables promising good quality, connect the system but doesnt calibrate, and doesnt care to respond to the calls once there so called job is done...
And my friend these 4 cases were not from dealers, they were from individual forum members, who acted to be very helpful, but end up bullshitting the members...
So, if after suggesting the right choice to the member, if i made a suggestion, that once that customer finalises on one particular product, if they are redirected to the Authorised Dealer / Distributor, who is contributing to the forum, then there seems to be no harm...

Now, please tell me if my suggestion conflicts...???

 

[mridulgoel]

Mr Goel,
What exactly are u saying?
Who is taking members for a ride?
What is there to take sides?


I have gone thru the thread and Manav and a few others are irked and am sure will resolve their differences but the above and the previous comment is pretty bizarre to say the least.

I would be the last person to Report posts to a moderator, but if I did, this post and your earlier one would top my list!!!!
Its great that your policy is "helping people more than gaining" !!!

Rgds

Dinyaar

You are invited to report my posts...
Make that as my pleasure...

But, i will be happier if you try and understand what my points are...
I have not make any of my comments based on any 2-3 people internal conflicts...
What i posted was my observation...
Being in this industry from past 7yrs now, and being a part of this forum, for more than 2.5yrs now, i just made my suggestions, keeping in mind, not to point anyone particular...
But, if you think, that last of my post, stating the reason of my third point, doesnt make any sense... then yes, you guyz can get blocked, or do what ever you want to, i wont mind...

Because i cant support those kind of members at all...

And moreover i will not be even interested in sharing there names openly, maybe i will do that with Venkat or Anil, sometime...

So request you to think it over, and read my original post once more...

 

[vinay]

Very often you are not around which is not good for a moderator and the forum, i condemn. :sad:

V.

I was away with a family commitment and just went through each post.

Saying Venkat is against North Indians in whatever context it is, is purely tasteless and unwarranted. I strongly condemn that statement.

 

[malvai]

But, how will you term people who PM the new guyz looking for a system, quote them a good price, supply them products (1 New, 2 Demo & 1 Used and Re-Packed)...out of 4 cases i have come across...and then supply local cables promising good quality, connect the system but doesnt calibrate, and doesnt care to respond to the calls once there so called job is done...
And my friend these 4 cases were not from dealers, they were from individual forum members, who acted to be very helpful, but end up bullshitting the members...

If what you are saying is true, then it indeed is a shame, and action must be taken.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

mridulgoel, I can understand what you say, and apologise for any misunderstanding. I can see it must be frustrating for a professional to witness others passing off complete bull and taking people in.

Unfortunately, it is the way of the world, and the only thing you, and others that know better too, can do, is to post good information.

My off-the-cuff feeling is that any member who has an undeclared interest that they pursue through PMs should probably be banned. I don't know what the forum rules are on this, though.

EDIT: yes, on reading them, that seems to reflect the forum rules.