Will Step down transformer affect HiFi's performance??

Were you referring to Tripath/TI Class-D/T kits available on Ebay?

If not, it'd be great if you can point me to some of those kits?.

Sorry for going off-topic:rolleyes:

Have used kits from Hypex. It sells 500 W x1 (or 250w x2) class D Kit for $200. You need to add 1 SMPS per amplifier module. SMPS costs $100.
 
hi pandiyan -

be sure - that step down transformer (from 220v 60hz to 110v 60 hz {mind - not 50hz}) - WILL AFFECT performance of high end hi-fi.

be sure that a signal modulated by electrons (the mass of which is {inversely} lighter than a hundred million feathers) will be affected adversely when buffeted by gauss and flux of unknown ken!

that signal - that ephemeral electron - must be shepherded by a familiar shepherd-

it must be made comfortable - and herded along familiar paths to destination-

hammering that delicate electron with unknown frequencies - will cause quiver in spin -

and alteration in what the listener perceives as sound:)

According to Heisenberg, the extent to which this will affect SQ is filled with uncertainity!! :)

Gobble, Suri has beaten both of us by reviving a completely dead post that has been answered.

Cheers

He has not just woken it up, he has transported it into the realm of the ephemeral and occult sciences!! :lol:
 
According to Heisenberg, the extent to which this will affect SQ is filled with uncertainity!! :)

hi gobble - about this uncertainty - my (favourite) classmate (at St. Joseph's, Bangalore) - Subir Sachdev has done path-breaking work - ON AN UNCERTAIN THING! -

Subir Sachdev.

yes, there is meaning here - there is so much certainty!:)
 
Let us get some fundamentals in place.

Electricity is all about the flow of electrons in wire. "Voltage" is a measure of how hard the electrons are pressing to get through--it's like water pressure in a pipe, or like the rotational force in our car's wheels. "Current," measured in amps, is a measure of how fast the electrons are flowing--it's like the gallons-per-minute flow in a pipe, or the feet-per-minute rate of spin of the tires on our car. Total power delivery, in an electrical circuit, is measured in watts, which are simply the volts multiplied by the amps; in the same way, the total power delivered by the car in our example is the amount of rotational force delivered by the wheels, multiplied by the speed of rotation. A number of watts may represent a very high voltage with relatively low current (such as we see in high-tension power lines) or a low voltage with very high current (such as we see when a 12-volt car battery delivers hundreds of amps into a starter).

To all this let us add a new dimension. This dimension is called 'frequency'. Unlike direct current (DC) that flows in one direction all the time, alternating current changes direction (represented as +ve and -ve) at a predetermined cycles per second. In the US it is 60 cycles per second or 60Hz. In India, it flows in 50 cycles per second or 50Hz.

How does this affect us? Well most AC equipment such as tube lights, heaters, and motors have been designed to work with these cycles. Are you aware that a tube light flickers (comes on and off) at the same frequency as the AC current?

What does this mean to me? Well, if you take a US made motor designed for 60Hz and run it in India at 110 volts but at 50Hz, it just wont even turn or at best will turn erratically.

Step down transformers, as with any transformer, are usually around 96% efficient. They can never be 100% efficient as there is loss of energy and current in the windings. But the catch is most step down transformers do not worry about frequency. So if you take a step down transformer and convert 230 volts to 110, what you will get is 110 volts but at 50Hz.

Now we come to the best part. Your audio equipment should not be affected at all? Why. Simply because all audio equipment work on direct current. Power supplies inside the audio equipment contain a TRANSFORMER which converts the mains AC supply to a safe low voltage AC. Then the AC is converted to DC by a bridge RECTIFIER but the output is varying DC which is unsuitable for electronic circuits. So the next step is SMOOTHENING of the voltage. This is performed by a large value electrolytic CAPACITOR connected across the DC supply to act as a reservoir, supplying current to the output when the varying DC voltage from the rectifier is falling. Even this will only supply DC current with small ripples in voltage that yet cannot be fed to the electronic circuits. So a last step is a REGULATOR. This is usually an IC that consists of a zener diode regulator and resistors. Irrespective of what voltage is fed to the diode, it always sends out constant voltage that can be fed to the electronic circuits.

Ideally you should try to get equipment that can take both 110 and 230 volts at 60 and 50Hz respectively. This way you eliminate the need to bring in another step in your supplying power to the audio equipment. For example literally every mobile phone charger can be used across the world without any hassle as they can switch between 230 and 110 volts. These would generally be rated as 100-240~ with frequencies FROM 50 TO 60Hz.

Since the HiFi equipment does an internal conversion from AC to DC and from high voltage such as 110/240 to somewhere around 5 to 25 volts, most equipment can, by themselves, perform well with mildly varying input voltages (voltage fluctuation). So if you do put a step down transformer between your power supply and the equipment, it should not make too much of a difference to the equipment. If the frequency is not properly managed, highly sensitive parts such as DC motors (in a CD player) could be affected. This is where PSRR of the equipment's power supply plays an important part.

Why are we then talking about stabilisers and UPS? Most equipment manufactured in the US, Europe and other advanced countries depend upon a stable power supply that does two things - ONE they supply power without fail; and TWO have very low fluctuation usually +/- 5 volts. In India, unfortunately, the power supply is both very erratic, and falls in voltage as the power is withdrawn by the consumers. For example, let us assume there is a mela or a political program running near your house. This will draw huge amounts of current from your supply albeit for a short time. When this happens, the power supply to your house will be affected by a huge drop in voltage as the EB is incapable of compensating for the additional load. In addition, at times, because of low production (as compared to demand) the EB will deem it fit to present you with a power cut.

A step down transformer that is given erratic power supply will in turn supply erratic voltages to the power supply of the audio equipment. This will put a strain on the power supply's capability to generate steady DC voltages sometime leading to a fuse blowing up or the whole power supply burning out.

Another important factor to understand and build for is good earthing. Many US and European equipment are earthed to the body of the equipment. You might get mild shocks when you touch a live equipment. Secondly the static electricity created by a equipment not properly earthed could create electro magnetic waves that could affect nearby equipment. In TV you will usually see this as noise lines moving across the screen at an angle of 45 degrees or more. Good earthing and line filters will help remove this problem.

I am showing below an interesting article from a US based magazine called The Audio Critic. Their 26th issue had an article on the 10 Biggest Lies In The Audio Industry.

The 8th Biggest Lie in Audio

The Power Conditioner Lie


Just about all that needs to be said on this subject has been said by Bryston in their owner's manuals:

"All Bryston amplifiers contain high-quality, dedicated circuitry in the power supplies to reject RF, line spikes and other power-line problems. Bryston power amplifiers do not require specialized power line conditioners. Plug the amplifier directly into its own wall socket."

What they don't say is that the same is true, more or less, of all well-designed amplifiers. They may not all be the Brystons' equal in regulation and PSRR (*), but if they are any good they can be plugged directly into a wall socket. If you can afford a fancy power conditioner you can also afford a well-designed amplifier, in which case you don't need the fancy power conditioner. It will do absolutely nothing for you. (Please note that we aren't talking about surge-protected power strips for computer equipment. They cost a lot less than a Tice Audio magic box, and computers with their peripherals are electrically more vulnerable than decent audio equipment.)

The biggest and stupidest lie of them all on the subject of "clean" power is that you need a specially designed high-priced line cord to obtain the best possible sound. Any line cord rated to handle domestic ac voltages and currents will perform like any other. Ultra-high-end line cords are a fraud. Your audio circuits don't know, and don't care, what's on the ac side of the power transformer. All they're interested in is the dc voltages they need. Think about it. Does your car care about the hose you filled the tank with?

(*) Power supply ripple rejection ratio (PSRR) is a measure of how well a circuit rejects ripple coming from the input power supply at various frequencies and is very critical in many RF and wireless applications. In the case of an DC linear voltage regulator (LDO), it is a measure of the output ripple compared to the input ripple over a wide frequency range (10 Hz to 10 MHz is common) and is expressed in decibels (dB).



Hi , I live in India and have just bought a yamaha stereo Amplifier (AX397). I am planning to move to the US in Jan 2011, and need to use this there. My question is , will I be able to use this amplifier with the US power supply conditions (110 V @ 60 HZ) or do I need to purchase special equipment to regulate this power supply to match the stated supply need on the amp (220-240V @ 50 HZ) ? Am a complete newbie here and to hi-fi in general also and apologize if i revived a dead thread/ reposted or just don't get it ! appreciate any help , thanks.
 
Hi , I live in India and have just bought a yamaha stereo Amplifier (AX397). I am planning to move to the US in Jan 2011, and need to use this there. My question is , will I be able to use this amplifier with the US power supply conditions (110 V @ 60 HZ) or do I need to purchase special equipment to regulate this power supply to match the stated supply need on the amp (220-240V @ 50 HZ) ? Am a complete newbie here and to hi-fi in general also and apologize if i revived a dead thread/ reposted or just don't get it ! appreciate any help , thanks.

Just the way you cannot use a 110 volt equipment in India, you CANNOT use a 220Volt equipment in the US. You need to install what is called a Step-Up transformer that converts a 110 volt supply to a 220 volt supply. When you reach the US go to a Radio Shack outlet and they will help you. Alternatively, if you go to a Yamaha service centre, they can remove the internal power supply in your AX397 and fit a 110 volt power supply. Then you do not need a transformer.

Cheers
 
Hello,
I am newbie from Indonesia...
Still confusing for buy Step Down Transformer 220v/50hz to 120v/60hz for my Sony Sound bar (
In description of Sony Power Output 120v/60hz Power Consumption "ON" 75 Watt ; Output Wattage 300 Watt

1) Should I choose Step Down Transformer with built in Stabilizer ? Or without it ?
2) Confusing for choose Watts capability in Step Down Transformer, which I preffered in Sony description : Power Consumption "ON" 75 Watt or Output Wattage 300 Watt, so that I doubled in transformer in 150 watts or 600 watts ?
3) How about impact from different frequency from 60hz to 50hz (in my country) ?
Is this dangerous if my transformer can't convert from 60hz to 50hz ? How impact to My Sony soundbar?

Thanks a lot for kindly help and many inputs.
 
Hi,
I am newbie here,
Need help for confusing to buy Step Down Transformer for my Sony Soundbar from US.
Here description from Sony > Power Output 120v/60hz with Power consumption on 75watt, Output Wattage 300watts.
I am from Indonesia with Power Output 220v/50hz.
My question herewith:
1) Which best option for buy Step Down Transformer, with Stabilizer or without Stabilizer?
2) Which I preferred to choose Watts capability for my Step Down Transformer, in Sony Specs Power consumption on 75watt or Output Wattage 300watts,so that I can double for Power Supply in 150watts or 600watts ?
3) Is it dangerous if Power Supply can't convert different frequency from 60hz to 50hz( in my country) ? How it will be Affected to my soundbar or sound quality?

Many thanks for kindly help and any input...
 
Hi all,

Sorry to wake up this old thread, but all contributors here seem to have ignored the effect of frequency change from 60 Hz to 50 Hz, between US and India. According to Rod Elliot (Elliott Sound Products - The Audio Pages (Main Index), same link as given by "gobble" in an earlier post), in linear power supplies, this difference will result in power transformers getting overheated, leading to their eventual death (this is a totally different issue from 220V - 110 V voltage conversion). The overheating seems logical because the primary current in transformers is limited by the inductive reactance of the winding (given by frequency x inductance). This will be lower by about 20% at 50 Hz compared to 60 Hz, resulting in a higher current by the same factor. This results in 44% more heat dissipation in the transformer primary, which MAY kill the transformer eventually.

One post here mentioned that a certain company uses frequency sensor circuits to shut off the unit if a different line frequency is detected: could this be the reason?

I was planning to bring a few audio equipment from the US to India this August (Receiver-1, CDP-1, cassette deck-1,), but Rod's article has really scared me, and I am considering selling them off here before I move. The other option is to replace the power transformers in these equipment with new custom-made units in India. Though a little involved, it may be possible to get this done in Bangalore, and I won't need a step-down transformer then because the primaries can be wound for 230 Volts.

btw, my equipment are mid-end Marantz (original costs are receiver - $ 700, CDP - $ 2500, cassette deck - $ 500, but I got them used on Ebay for $ 75, $ 100 and $ 40 respectively), of fairly sturdy construction.

I would really appreciate your comments on this transformer heating issue, will be very helpful for me to decide what to do !!

Thanks much,

Reji
 
in linear power supplies, this difference will result in power transformers getting overheated, leading to their eventual death (this is a totally different issue from 220V - 110 V voltage conversion). The overheating seems logical because the primary current in transformers is limited by the inductive reactance of the winding (given by frequency x inductance). This will be lower by about 20% at 50 Hz compared to 60 Hz, resulting in a higher current by the same factor. This results in 44% more heat dissipation in the transformer primary, which MAY kill the transformer eventually.


This is a real issue, fortunately mainstream brands have to operate in multiple markets and it is economical for them to share parts like Power Transformer across product lines. Just the configuration of existing Power Transformer needs to be changed to accept different Voltage and Frequency.

Can you post Model/Make of AVR you are planning to buy? Service Manual of that AVR would have:

1. Part number of Power Transformer
2. Configuration of the same. It might already be built to operate across different regions.
 
Hi Netfreak,

The AVR I have is Marantz SR5003. In fact I had downloaded the service manual from the net at the time of purchase. Will look up the transformer specifications if its part number is given.

Thanks,

Reji
 
Hi Venkat, Suhas and all others,

I just enjoyed reading the complete 9 page document. I have recently bought a Harman Kardons AVR 3650 from US (Rated to work with 120V & 50 -60Hz)and plan to use in India. My question is again around the Step Down transformer (Hope someone will still have the patience to reply....as the same type of questions are asked & being replied again and again :) )

The receiver reads 480 Watts Max and the Subwoofer reads 200Watts = A total of 680 Watts. Adding the safety margins.....680*1.5 = 1020 Watts...... All the 5.1 Speakers are 8 Ohms....i frankly think i will never be pushing these speakers+receiver to work at full load volume.......Do you feel by your experience that a 1000 Watts Step Down Transformer will just be fine to buy.
 
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1000 Watts Step Down Transformer will just be fine to buy.

Yes it would be fine. However, Transformer are rated in a different unit, so you need to ask for 1500 VA (1.5 KVA) transformer. Otherwise you would get a 1 KVA transformer that would provide ~700-800 watts.
 
hello all,

i have just joined in and i need to ask some information!!

i have purchased a denon AVR x2100w for my home theater rated at 110volts and i intend to use it at 220volts region

Using the Step Down transformer does it has any drawbacks?
question 1) does it reduces the life of the av receiver?
question 2) does it effects the sound quality in any way? in any way?
question 3) does it makes a humming noise?
question 4) does it lowers the output watts per channel?

second option:
If i swap the power supply in the 110 volts unit with a new 220 volts power supply from a authorised dealer!
is this option available would it work, if yes, is this a better option than using a step down transformer?
Besides the power supply is there any difference between both the units 110volts and 220 volts is just the power supply or the other equipments in the 220 volts unit differ from the one in 110 volts ?
 
Over all excellent thread and valuable information. I have been using Yamaha high end receivers, RX V 3900, will soon buy aventage 1030. I have to use a step down transformer because the equipment is 110V. I also use Panamax PM 5300 power conditioner. i did check with and with out. Difference with is astounding for audio and you need to listen. Nonetheless my 65 inch LG ( works on 110 and 220V) did not show any difference that I could observe
My humble request to Venkat is to enlighten forum users if isolated transformers are necessary for high end equipment. I had lot of surge problems, tripping with 2 KVa transformers. Appreciate your views on MAXINE transformers
Thanks
 
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