Bass n Treble update

[anm]

I was a little furious at Denny for not being responsive. Tweeter on one of my thiels stopped working.
Finally I found time on a non-sunday (sunday is his weekly off) and drove to his new showroom location. However, what I saw there made me quite sympathetic.
He is starting a new showroom at Ghitorni, but the showroom is not yet finished. As usual, he is the victim of painter/ carpenters who promise to do your work in a month but then drag it on for much more time.

So he has vacated the Gurgaon showroom, and has still not got the new showroom ready. I hope he gets is up and running soon.

 

[corElement]

NCR labour are thieves

 

[reubensm]

labour all over the country are thieves...I am facing similar issues with my house construction out here. Its been over 2 years now, and still counting. They sign multiple projects and keep juggling between these projects and hence, they are extremely irregular at work.

 

[corElement]

In calcutta the quality of labour was pretty high even till 2007. I dont know after 2007.

 

[soundofmusic]

NCR labour are thieves

Labour are not thieves. Its just shortage of workers and high demand for them. We renovated our office 2 years back and all the workers are from Bihar and they worked day and night and finished the work before schedule and kept running for other project. Pathetic life they live :indifferent14:

 

[thatguy]

If you guys find laborers difficult, you can always hire MBAs and software engineers. The country is full of them.

All of them are very honest and extremely hard working. MBAs will even wear ties and speak English.

 

[square_wave]

The problem is with the system. If you listen to their story, they are unable to feed their family and children or give them some level of reasonable education if they do not work day and night. They are pretty much victims of a pathetic system. On top that, they have to deal with all the domestic instabilities which inherent in the demographic. The poor folks are used and abused in this country. Lack of organisation by the people who manage them plays a big role.

 

[corElement]

Off topic but..

It is one thing when you pay people peanuts and it is another thing when you pay them a large amount and they don't deliver. Labour in NCR charge you a bomb and deliver peanuts.
Here are some events that took place with us in Gurgaon

Earlier this year at my fathers apartment they hired labour to do tiles on the walls and full amount was paid but the labour slacked and didn't go grouting and within 2 months each and every single tile fell off the wall and broke.

2010 In our apartment we got a good quality Cotto toilet for the bathroom that is hung against wall. Plumber was paid amount in full, within 1st month of usage the toilet fell off the wall and broke because the hinge was slackingly placed.

In 2007 a polisher was hired to do polishing in walnut finish, instead of polish he delivered a fully brown painted finish and asked to be paid full amount. We got security to remove him from the building.

In 2008 we hired a guy to hang a water geyser, before we had a chance to explain, the guy installed it in the middle of the wall instead of higher up so people wouldnt hit their heads, and expected full payment.

In 2009 we hired a a painter to paint the interiors and guy swapped out one drum of the paint we provided and used one drum of his cheaper paint and said it was the same thing, we threathened him and got him to finish the work with the 2nd drum.

In 2005 we had to install a toilet on the floor, the plumber installed it Skewed / diagonal to the wall and said "aisa hi hota hai" / "It's like this only".

This is not shortage
This is not complex work
These are not expensive tasks.

This is blatant mischievous attitude
This is lazy behaviour
This is money taken for granted

This is theft. Normally there is always supervision but just those few times there wasn't, they take full advantage and make sure to deliberately do a slack job.

 

[reubensm]

Sorry we are getting off topic here but the chat is interesting, let me share my experience.

Don't agree that these guys are unable to feed their families. Kerala is notorious for labour issues. Skilled workers earn more than the regular office going employee. Most of these guys do 2 shifts in a day at 2 construction sites making double the money per day in the process.

Here's what I pay for EACH worker at my construction site: :sad:

Earth Worker - Rs.500 per day
Highly skilled Mason (Mallu) - Rs.750 per day
Generic Mason (North Indian) - Rs.500 per day
Plumber (Mallu) - Rs.800 per day
Electrician (Mallu) - Rs.800 per day
Steel Re-inforcement worker (North Indian) - Rs.550 per day
Steel fabricator (Mallu) - Rs.800 per day
Carpenter (Mallu) - Rs.1000 per day
Site supervisor (Mallu) - Rs.15,000 per month

Work schedule:

Start work: 9am (they usually arrive between 9 and 9:30am)
Tea Break: 11:30am (half hour)
Lunch Break: 1:00pm (1 hour, they have a quick lunch and then sleep till about 2:30pm)
Noon Tea Break: 3:30pm (half hour)
End of work: 5pm (they usually stop at around 4:30pm and take a shower)

So you can understand why we have stretched to the third year with regard to my house construction project
North Indian workers at my site are from Jharkand, West Bengal and Assam.

Quality of work - very poor if not supervised. Even though we have a supervisor, my wife and I have to personally check each and everything, luckily we live near the construction site.

And the added headache is the local headload worker's union. One has to pay them for absolutely everything arriving at the site, except bricks, granite stones and sand.

The problem is with the system. If you listen to their story, they are unable to feed their family and children or give them some level of reasonable education if they do not work day and night. They are pretty much victims of a pathetic system. On top that, they have to deal with all the domestic instabilities which inherent in the demographic. The poor folks are used and abused in this country. Lack of organisation by the people who manage them plays a big role.

 

[avidyarthy]

I was a little furious at Denny for not being responsive. Tweeter on one of my thiels stopped working.

If this thing (waiting) is getting on your nerves, suggest showing this speaker to Kalam. He is now well versed with speaker repairs too after the brief handling of the TL whose circuit had gotten damaged during transportation. Most probably, the fault with yours too 'could' be in or around the Xover ... say, maybe a capacitor leak or a resistance dead. Do not think it could be any issues the tweeter as such.

 

[iaudio]

Sorry we are getting off topic here but the chat is interesting, let me share my experience.

Don't agree that these guys are unable to feed their families. Kerala is notorious for labour issues. Skilled workers earn more than the regular office going employee. Most of these guys do 2 shifts in a day at 2 construction sites making double the money per day in the process.

Here's what I pay for EACH worker at my construction site: :sad:

Earth Worker - Rs.500 per day
Highly skilled Mason (Mallu) - Rs.750 per day
Generic Mason (North Indian) - Rs.500 per day
Plumber (Mallu) - Rs.800 per day
Electrician (Mallu) - Rs.800 per day
Steel Re-inforcement worker (North Indian) - Rs.550 per day
Steel fabricator (Mallu) - Rs.800 per day
Carpenter (Mallu) - Rs.1000 per day
Site supervisor (Mallu) - Rs.15,000 per month

Work schedule:

Start work: 9am (they usually arrive between 9 and 9:30am)
Tea Break: 11:30am (half hour)
Lunch Break: 1:00pm (1 hour, they have a quick lunch and then sleep till about 2:30pm)
Noon Tea Break: 3:30pm (half hour)
End of work: 5pm (they usually stop at around 4:30pm and take a shower)

So you can understand why we have stretched to the third year with regard to my house construction project
North Indian workers at my site are from Jharkand, West Bengal and Assam.

Quality of work - very poor if not supervised. Even though we have a supervisor, my wife and I have to personally check each and everything, luckily we live near the construction site.

And the added headache is the local headload worker's union. One has to pay them for absolutely everything arriving at the site, except bricks, granite stones and sand.

+1 to that. Atleast that holds true for the situation in Kerala. They are not struggling to make ends meet. They make more than a lot of white collar workers and a good percentage of them contribute everyday to the Kerala Beverages Corporation.

 

[anm]

If this thing (waiting) is getting on your nerves, suggest showing this speaker to Kalam. He is now well versed with speaker repairs too after the brief handling of the TL whose circuit had gotten damaged during transportation. Most probably, the fault with yours too 'could' be in or around the Xover ... say, maybe a capacitor leak or a resistance dead. Do not think it could be any issues the tweeter as such.

denny has taken the tweeter out. will see where we go from here. speaker is packed up and my wife is threatening to throw the dabba out

 

[avidyarthy]

Of what I saw, when Kalam was at work on my speakers, it merely takes 2 minutes with a multimeter to ascertain whether the tweeter is operational or not! Yes, that operation might not be exactly as desired. But, the tweeter health can be arrived at in a jiffy.

If the tweeter isn't giving off sound or is remaining dead, then it is all possibility that there IS an issue with the Xover circuitry only.

 

[gobble]

Off topic but..

It is one thing when you pay people peanuts and it is another thing when you pay them a large amount and they don't deliver. Labour in NCR charge you a bomb and deliver peanuts.
Here are some events that took place with us in Gurgaon

Earlier this year at my fathers apartment they hired labour to do tiles on the walls and full amount was paid but the labour slacked and didn't go grouting and within 2 months each and every single tile fell off the wall and broke.

2010 In our apartment we got a good quality Cotto toilet for the bathroom that is hung against wall. Plumber was paid amount in full, within 1st month of usage the toilet fell off the wall and broke because the hinge was slackingly placed.

In 2007 a polisher was hired to do polishing in walnut finish, instead of polish he delivered a fully brown painted finish and asked to be paid full amount. We got security to remove him from the building.

In 2008 we hired a guy to hang a water geyser, before we had a chance to explain, the guy installed it in the middle of the wall instead of higher up so people wouldnt hit their heads, and expected full payment.

In 2009 we hired a a painter to paint the interiors and guy swapped out one drum of the paint we provided and used one drum of his cheaper paint and said it was the same thing, we threathened him and got him to finish the work with the 2nd drum.

In 2005 we had to install a toilet on the floor, the plumber installed it Skewed / diagonal to the wall and said "aisa hi hota hai" / "It's like this only".

This is not shortage
This is not complex work
These are not expensive tasks.

This is blatant mischievous attitude
This is lazy behaviour
This is money taken for granted

This is theft. Normally there is always supervision but just those few times there wasn't, they take full advantage and make sure to deliberately do a slack job.

CorElement
My sympathies and yes my blood boils hearing your story. I too have always had a problem with any labourer that does not know straight lines or symmetry or is ok with a 2mm gap anywhere and prrtends its perfectly allright. On top of it is the arrogance and militant demand for full payment for incomplete or shoddy work -
A large part of the attitude problem is really due to the leftist organizations and related NGOs that have outreach into the interiors of India and miseducate people to cultivate a victimhood mindset and demand special consideration about it irrespective of the quality of work they execute.

Sent from mobile on a crappy keyboard. Pls excuse typos.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

"You didn't tell me you wanted it done properly."

That was a carpenter. Years later, I still sometimes wish I'd informed the electrician that I didn't want to die.

 

[thatguy]

"You didn't tell me you wanted it done properly."

That was a carpenter. Years later, I still sometimes wish I'd informed the electrician that I didn't want to die.

You got caught in the crossfire of a battle that isn't yours. The worker was saying 'f*** you' in a very different language.

In our great Indian culture, any one with any real skill has been relegated to the bottom of the society. In much of the north, the hindi word for cobbler also doubles as an insult. And before anyone jumps on the north Indians, one of my north karnataka friends told me that his classmates used to call him 'barber' to insult him when he was in school.

What you are seeing isn't about money or professionalism or other borrowed western ideas. It is an act of revenge against 2000 years of cruelty. It is a battle for pride. Straight from the gut.

A mallu friend of mine recently built a house in Bangalore. For woodwork, he had called a carpentar from Kerala. This was a 60+ year old highly skilled craftsman working on daily wages to support himself. If he had been born in the west, he would probably have been a respected member of the society with a well equipped workshop and his own youtube channel. But here he was, working for a people who would continue to look down upon him (and will never allow his kids to marry theirs). I am quite certain the man had no access to services we take for granted like banking, medicare, pension or clean water. Would you want to lecture him on motivation and professional values?

The educated coolies (err, I mean engineers) that the middle/upper class produces and is so proud of didn't (rather couldn't) do anything to make the artisans life easier. The carpenters and masons, much like the sophisticated gents on this forum, prefer foreign tools. I see so many workmen going around in Bangalore with Bosch and DeWalts. But they (at least the carpenters) have already lost the battle for technology and are unable to compete against Malayasian produce.

And now those same upper/middle class wants to invite Ikea with open arms.

I wish those men had Internet access and could see the posts. They will probably give a much more fitting reply to these useless bhadralok calling them thieves.

 

[vinshar]

Off topic but..

It is one thing when you pay people peanuts and it is another thing when you pay them a large amount and they don't deliver. Labour in NCR charge you a bomb and deliver peanuts.
Here are some events that took place with us in Gurgaon

Earlier this year at my fathers apartment they hired labour to do tiles on the walls and full amount was paid but the labour slacked and didn't go grouting and within 2 months each and every single tile fell off the wall and broke.

2010 In our apartment we got a good quality Cotto toilet for the bathroom that is hung against wall. Plumber was paid amount in full, within 1st month of usage the toilet fell off the wall and broke because the hinge was slackingly placed.

In 2007 a polisher was hired to do polishing in walnut finish, instead of polish he delivered a fully brown painted finish and asked to be paid full amount. We got security to remove him from the building.

In 2008 we hired a guy to hang a water geyser, before we had a chance to explain, the guy installed it in the middle of the wall instead of higher up so people wouldnt hit their heads, and expected full payment.

In 2009 we hired a a painter to paint the interiors and guy swapped out one drum of the paint we provided and used one drum of his cheaper paint and said it was the same thing, we threathened him and got him to finish the work with the 2nd drum.

In 2005 we had to install a toilet on the floor, the plumber installed it Skewed / diagonal to the wall and said "aisa hi hota hai" / "It's like this only".

This is not shortage
This is not complex work
These are not expensive tasks.

This is blatant mischievous attitude
This is lazy behaviour
This is money taken for granted

This is theft. Normally there is always supervision but just those few times there wasn't, they take full advantage and make sure to deliberately do a slack job.

I agree specifically in Gurgaon, even after paying higher amount you don't get quality job. After spending lot of time and money on these so called electrician, plumber and painter etc. I decided to higher from Delhi, now I am very satisfied with quality of work getting done from electrician, painter from Delhi.

 

[anm]

People in delhi do not have time but a decent amount of money. Most people don't bother about quality and pay up. This not only drives the rates up, it also makes the quality go down the drain.

In fact, many times, I myself have paid up 500 rupees to a plumber to just come and look at what is wrong. He would then get 1000 rs stuff to fix the problem. I do not have time or capability to understand what is really going on.

Electricians, carpenters, plumbers are in great demand. I do not know how much they earn, but it is really difficult to get hold of them. And they are expensive.

When I planned to move from Noida to faridabad, the painter promised me 3 weeks. We kept 3 more weeks as buffer. However, when we shifted our stuff at end of 6 weeks, we had to cut down on lot of requirements, and the painters were still giving one last coat.
Reason for delay - many of the people working just disappeared. The contractor always cribbed about other contractor taken away his people. And every few days he would demand money to pay up to his work force, else the remaining would run away.

I know that he found more projects and after getting advance from me, he just worked for a couple of days and then moved his work force to other projects. And may be wound up pending projects too.

 

[anm]

Of what I saw, when Kalam was at work on my speakers, it merely takes 2 minutes with a multimeter to ascertain whether the tweeter is operational or not! Yes, that operation might not be exactly as desired. But, the tweeter health can be arrived at in a jiffy.

If the tweeter isn't giving off sound or is remaining dead, then it is all possibility that there IS an issue with the Xover circuitry only.

I too asked Denny the same question - whether it is crossover or the tweeter. But he just took out the tweeter for replacement. I am trusting his judgement, but I am also confused what could be the fault.

 

[corElement]

nts, and the painters were still giving one last coat.
Reason for delay - many of the people working just disappeared. The contractor always cribbed about other contractor taken away his people. And every few days he would demand money to pay up to his work force, else the remaining would run away.

I know that he found more projects and after getting advance from me, he just worked for a couple of days and then moved his work force to other projects. And may be wound up pending projects too.

Oh god, don't get me started on this, you have hit right on the nail. Hire the guy, then guy goes absconding after doing 1 coat of paint, then they'll hurridly try to finish it without proper technique then expect full payment asap.

This is horribly horribly annoying. Even polishers, you hire them, they come one day try to sand and polish in a matter of an hour that what needs to be done over 3 days and then they'll say it's done and ask for money or double their amount.

When I was younger I would always have respect for their efforts and be sympathetic to their cause, but now all that sympathy has gone straight out the window. They're utter crooks.