Denon X3700H@91k or Marantz SR6015@1L?

[rpmahale]

I have auditioned Anthem, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer and Onkyo av receivers and to be honest to me Anthem sounds great . Even their 5 channels avr can give more entertaning experience than other's brand 7/9 channels avr. Anthem is definitely in next level of avr than rest. When I auditioned Anthem MRX 520 and Marantz SR6012 , I feel that Instead of 9 channels Marantz, it's better to go with 5 channels Anthem for same price. Yamaha Avantage series is next after Anthem specifically 10XX onwards for great cinematic experience. Denon , Marantz, Onkyo, Pioneer are almost in same class and at par with each other ,no one regret for purchase .

 

[insane79]

In this case I agree, how does one compare AVR's subjectively, while listening to a movie sounds, especially a movie that has a lot of special effects, which is what most demo's showcase. Did any one hear a "grenade explode" in real life to understand whether Rcvr. "A" is better than Rcvr"B" in reproducing that sound? Or a car crash? or a laser weapon? or even one guy kick another guy? These are all foley (or fooley as I would call them) effects which is just BS not the real thing. So best way to compare AVR's is by objective measurements from sites like ASR (I even doubt that site because the owner who is a dealer for JBL/Revel etc always finds those products superior to every other product in the similar price range - but at-least he does some measurement).
Ok, if one wants to use an AVR for music listening, then an entirely different set of subjective parameters come into play like human voice or musical instruments, but for strictly movie watching this is not an important factor imo and it is better to rely on measured specs.
Cheers,
Sid

I thought the same till i owned different brands of avrs, people who have experienced the same like me have mentioned it in this thread.

ASR are all about measurements & i m sure they will even give a bad review for super high end processors & power amps like Storm Audio etc. Don't go by measurements & go by the ear. I had a Nad T758 V3 avr which ASR reviewed miserably but in reality it blew away the previous Denon avr i had.

Fortunately i don't measure my equipments by instruments but want to experience the sound from them

 

[sidvee]

I thought the same till i owned different brands of avrs, people who have experienced the same like me have mentioned it in this thread.

ASR are all about measurements & i m sure they will even give a bad review for super high end processors & power amps like Storm Audio etc. Don't go by measurements & go by the ear. I had a Nad T758 V3 avr which ASR reviewed miserably but in reality it blew away the previous Denon avr i had.

Fortunately i don't measure my equipments by instruments but want to experience the sound from them

Ok, I stand corrected then, I don't really have much experience in this, never heard/had any of the higher end stuff, only mass market like Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer etc. I have a very old marantz receiver currently - and I can't really afford Anthems etc either. To the OP - better to audition some high end - higher priced receivers then, and not rely on objective specs. only.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[efernand1]

I am sure all of us have our opinions and experiences to share, end of the day..whatever works well in terms of budget and sounds great to the owner (listener / user) and meets specific requirements of 5.1/2 or 7.1/2 or 9.1/2 etc would be the final call.

Reviews are many and yes most of us would like to experiment different brands and models, which I try as much as I can (if budget permits).

Nothing lasts forever! Upgrades keep happening and sooner or later, we end up getting the itch to move to the next level. Very few of us are content with a certain model / brand and dont intend to quest for more!

My 2 cents on the topic and what I have read and experienced. No offence to anyone!

 

[Cooladitya007]

Thank you for the recommendation. I'm going for a 5.1.4 setup, so need at least 9 channels.

How about pioneer lx304 silver 9.2 channel @ 72k??

 

[vikas pathak]

Does this means that Denon 3600 is even better than Anthem 1120 and Marantz 8805? It’s hard to believe https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...iver-review.12676/#lg=attachment59147&slide=0

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

In this case I agree, how does one compare AVR's subjectively, while listening to a movie sounds, especially a movie that has a lot of special effects, which is what most demo's showcase. Did any one hear a "grenade explode" in real life to understand whether Rcvr. "A" is better than Rcvr"B" in reproducing that sound? Or a car crash? or a laser weapon? or even one guy kick another guy? These are all foley (or fooley as I would call them) effects which is just BS not the real thing. So best way to compare AVR's is by objective measurements from sites like ASR (I even doubt that site because the owner who is a dealer for JBL/Revel etc always finds those products superior to every other product in the similar price range - but at-least he does some measurement).
Ok, if one wants to use an AVR for music listening, then an entirely different set of subjective parameters come into play like human voice or musical instruments, but for strictly movie watching this is not an important factor imo and it is better to rely on measured specs.
Cheers,
Sid

The basics of accurate reproduction is flat frequency response, low harmonic distortion, high snr to keep noise below audible range. So if a receiver A measures better than a receiver B, it means it would be more true to the source material.

Most source material is produced at studios where standard equipments are used. That means the artist created it using accurate gear with the same characters as your system. So that's what he heard while mixing and that's what he intend the sound to be.

Good measured devices guarantee that you hear what he wanted in his mix than what your syst exaggerates or screws up.

All of it matters only if your aim is accurate reproduction of the source material.

Whether it's a car crash or a drum roll, it it measures right, it would portrait it the way the recording engineer wanted it in the movie or the mix.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

I thought the same till i owned different brands of avrs, people who have experienced the same like me have mentioned it in this thread.

ASR are all about measurements & i m sure they will even give a bad review for super high end processors & power amps like Storm Audio etc. Don't go by measurements & go by the ear. I had a Nad T758 V3 avr which ASR reviewed miserably but in reality it blew away the previous Denon avr i had.

Fortunately i don't measure my equipments by instruments but want to experience the sound from them

What speakers did you use to compare the recievers ? How did you level match ? How did you switch between the devices so fast?

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

audition both with ur favourite movie and audio track and decide ,do not worry too much about reviews

That's the stickman argument we all had for ages which helps the manufactures to push junk to us paying what hifi.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

Does this means that Denon 3600 is even better than Anthem 1120 and Marantz 8805? It’s hard to believe https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...iver-review.12676/#lg=attachment59147&slide=0

On paper here yes ! But that snr difference of 1 dB differences are not much perceivable so its safe to choose anything on the left side of that graph. But in our living rooms I think due to the other ambient noise and all there must be agleast 3db difference to hardly perceived a difference. But that nad on the right should be horrible to listen. Which higher snr you feel like there is a greater sense of quietness between sound and silence so minute details would get more evident with higher snr devices.


But sound profile of amp is a combination of the snr, freq response and distortion figures mainly.

So anthem can subjectively sound better due to its distortion figures combined with higher power. Same logic tube amps "sounds better" but in reality they sound more broken than a real thing

 

[dillihifi]

Again I would like to say that all such measurements are not a panacea to good sound. The sound as perceived by the person is subjective and what may sound outstanding to somebody may not be of that level for the other person.

Though the build quality or the components used which can be seen from the outside can be compared to get a fair idea of the build quality but sound after all is subjective.

Whatever may be the measurements but to the ear do they sound good or only show good results in the measurements? Maybe our ears like a bit of distortion so in many cases I have experienced the tube sound to be better though it may not measure as such.

These questions has been put to umpteen debates but there can be no sure-shot conclusion either way. It is something which cannot be explained but be experienced.

 

[vikas pathak]

As per Asr Denon made 3500 crap, 3600 brilliant and then again 3700 crap as per Asr measurements. Where as What hifi review says 3700 is a worthy successor to 3600 in all aspects. It seems unbelievable, why denon will do so.

I say better audition and trust your ears. I had personally owned Denon, marantz & yamaha flagship avrs. All were good but my personal preference is Yamaha.

 

[sidvee]

Whether it's a car crash or a drum roll, it it measures right, it would portrait it the way the recording engineer wanted it in the movie or the mix.

What Was That? The Top 13 Foley SFX From Everyday Household Objects

Top 13 Foley SFX from everyday household objects 13. Coconuts = A Walking Horse · 12. Bacon = Rain · 11. Celery = Breaking Bones · 10. Staple Guns = Gunshots ....

blog.storyblocks.com

So from above link breaking celery stalks sounds like breaking bones, how does this measure right? So do I take what the recording engineer wants me to hear as accurate bone breaking sound. Isn't this subjective, whereas a drum has a consistent, reproducible sound that I can relate to. Anyways I don't want to go OT too much, if an Anthem or Arcam can reproduce celery stalks breaking better than a marantz or denon so be it - and again this is my personal opinion, which is wrong perhaps.
However no one will convince me that a higher priced receiver will sound better on movies than a mass market one if its specs/power rating/distortion figures are all inferior under measurement, just because it has better build quality and it comes from so-called higher end brand.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[dillihifi]

Well you do have your points but lets cosider the following :

1) now everything is based on the equipment used by the recording engineer is fully neutral and does not add its color to the recording. Did it measure good, bad or neutral ?

2) some respected amps have high thds and others have low thds and both sound good. (See threads in audiogon and I think something was also discussed here)

3) sound is perceived by the human ear and is therefore subjective and is not always a 1 to 1 correlation

4) biases exist on brand name and price (whether you admit or not)

5) the measurements we do today are based on our understanding maybe in future we may measure differently and get different results.

Only limited point I am making is sound is subjective and cannot be simplified into an equation, and different people would have different choices and measurements are not the only deciding factor.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

Well you do have your points but lets cosider the following :

1) now everything is based on the equipment used by the recording engineer is fully neutral and does not add its color to the recording. Did it measure good, bad or neutral ?

2) some respected amps have high thds and others have low thds and both sound good. (See threads in audiogon and I think something was also discussed here)

3) sound is perceived by the human ear and is therefore subjective and is not always a 1 to 1 correlation

4) biases exist on brand name and price (whether you admit or not)

5) the measurements we do today are based on our understanding maybe in future we may measure differently and get different results.

Only limited point I am making is sound is subjective and cannot be simplified into an equation, and different people would have different choices and measurements are not the only deciding factor.

Yes you are right.

 

[sidvee]

Only limited point I am making is sound is subjective and cannot be simplified into an equation, and different people would have different choices and measurements are not the only deciding factor.

So can we get audition of different products, that we can bring into a controlled environment i.e; our listening rooms and make that subjective choice? I bought speakers that cost close to 15 lacs per pair - guess what they were sent to me in a cardboard box (my whole audio system as a whole cost much much more - but not even once I could audition any of that equipment in my own room - whereas a car dealer will bring a 15-20 lac car to your house for a test drive), I had to unload them and move them into my listening room and install and optimize them myself. So you think - for example - for a 2 lac so called high end receiver, the dealer is going to give you a home audition? So in absence of this what is one to do?- go to the dealers location listen to it in his environment and then make a decision? Sure go ahead and do that, the said product will sound completely different in your room with your equipment. Else at-least understand the specs., read independent reviews and make a informed choice. Don't go by price alone or some subjective reviews how dynamics of celery stalk breaking sounds better. Anyways as I said this is my method - at-least related to buying audio-video receivers for movie listening in India, I may be wrong and am probably wrong - so please ignore me, but I am just stating what the ground reality is when folks say you need to listen to equipment and make your choice. And lastly - please no-offence to anyone who has higher end equipment - I am the last person who wants to say this or that brand is better.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[sidvee]

Yes you are right.

Again I fail to understand, how one can reproduce what the recording engineer heard, accurately when he mixed breaking of celery stalks to imitate breaking of bones - to what you hear in your room? Is there some fixed standard for tonality, nuances, dynamics etc. of these types of sound, or a benchmark perhaps, like a piano or tabla etc. i.e: when you break a celery stalk it should sound like this - not that? For entertainment purpose this is ok, but saying that this sound - as perceived by the recording/mixing engineer - is neutral or not adding color IMO is perhaps a bit hard to define. Anyways my last post on this subject, huge apologies to the OP , good luck with your search - think I have made my point quite clear - and as I stated earlier I really don't have the experience or the knowledge of many of the FM's here, so please take all my ramblings with a huge pinch of salt.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[dillihifi]

So can we get audition of different products, that we can bring into a controlled environment i.e; our listening rooms and make that subjective choice? I bought speakers that cost close to 15 lacs per pair - guess what they were sent to me in a cardboard box (my whole audio system as a whole cost much much more - but not even once I could audition any of that equipment in my own room - whereas a car dealer will bring a 15-20 lac car to your house for a test drive), I had to unload them and move them into my listening room and install and optimize them myself. So you think - for example - for a 2 lac so called high end receiver, the dealer is going to give you a home audition? So in absence of this what is one to do?- go to the dealers location listen to it in his environment and then make a decision? Sure go ahead and do that, the said product will sound completely different in your room with your equipment. Else at-least understand the specs., read independent reviews and make a informed choice. Don't go by price alone or some subjective reviews how dynamics of celery stalk breaking sounds better. Anyways as I said this is my method - at-least related to buying audio-video receivers for movie listening in India, I may be wrong and am probably wrong - so please ignore me, but I am just stating what the ground reality is when folks say you need to listen to equipment and make your choice. And lastly - please no-offence to anyone who has higher end equipment - I am the last person who wants to say this or that brand is better.
Cheers,
Sid

Well I never mentioned anything about home audition. Secondly I said there were factors apart from measurements like sound, biasness, budget, asthetics, etc.

 

[insane79]

Ok we have gone well over the Topic & i think the OP is not interested in any of the brands we are debating about lol.

So lets cut it, Sorry if i have offended anyone or added fuel to this debate.

Peace

 

[spirovious]

Anthem and NAD avrs have better amp section which delivers good and stable power to speakers.They can sound better than Denon, Marantz,Yamaha,Pioneer. But again the preamp section should be clean to get the best.When I heard MRX520 ,it was certainly powerful, but comparing to an Marantz AVR, I felt soundstage was not bigger. Also warmth of Marantz was missing.I am compared them in direct mode. Calibration/correction can take them to next level.