Help with acoustics for my HT

orthopod

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Hi,

Want help with my new HT.
PJ - Epson TW3600, Denon 1912, Polk Audio Tsi 400, CS20, PSW 110, OWM and 106" Liberty grandview screen
Room size - 17.5 ft / 13 ft

I been experiencing bad bass boom. Help me with acoustic treatment for this room now.
I have very specific requirements
1. No digging and carpentry inside the house (Wife`s order)
2. No glass wool etc. None of those toxic materials
3. Corner bass traps - Where and how many.
Any other suggestions. How about Aurica products
 

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Nice setup ortho. Congratulations. Though my suggestion has nothing to do with acoustics, I'd suggest you to relocate that wall cabinet with glass door elsewhere. It'll cause reflection and may spoil the Cinema experience. If you can live with it, then take it easy.

Regards,
Kevian
 
Nice setup ortho. Congratulations. Though my suggestion has nothing to do with acoustics, I'd suggest you to relocate that wall cabinet with glass door elsewhere. It'll cause reflection and may spoil the Cinema experience. If you can live with it, then take it easy.

Regards,
Kevian
Thanks Kevian,

That cabinet is a part my daughters study as well, so cant do much. I cover it with a rug when we watch a movie
 
Couple of problems which I can see right now in the pictures are:
1. Center Speaker placed quite low : Corrective measures - Either place it on the floor and then with the help of a conical thing try and raise the front such that its drivers points your ear level. The Best solution would have been to move the center channel above the screen and then tilting it at an angle at which you sit.

2. Try placing the Rug Horizontly as it would help in absorbing the floor reflections of the main speakers.

3. To correct the Bass Boominess try placing another Subwoofer in your room which will cancel out the negative effects of the 1 st Subwoofer.
 
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1. The floor (tiles I think) on which the rug is placed may be causing a lot of reflection. Can you cover it completely with a rug?
2. Ashish's idea of a 2nd sub is really good. Also it will improve the bass for this big a room.
3. You can also try by putting the sub at another location in the room. That is sometimes very helpful.
4. Nice setup though, i really liked the colors on the wall!
 
Fantastic room:clapping:. I feel the weak link is your Sub woofer. In future add a good sub , a little high end if you want to stick with polk brand try DSW660 series. There are many more available.

You can also try a soundbase under the subwoofer.

SoundBase HT4
 
VERY BEAUTIFUL ROOM Orthopod:)
Very clean & neat setup.
I'm also facing a bass resonance in my room. I see that in your room that there are not much things around that could absorb/dissipate bass waves. Only the sofa may absorb/dissipate some energy but that may not be enough.
I am sure a corner bass trap will be very helpful. Also try to place the Subwoofer more towards the center of the screen to reduce corner loading.
Pls wait for the experts to chip in.
Cheers
Sam
 
Where are the experts .... please
@Sameul - what have you done to reduce the bass boom in your setup?
Has anyone heard of wood wool panels .
 
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Orthopod,

You have got quite few excellent advice so far. I am really not an expert (if that's what you are looking for) but here is my two cents.

  • The front floor-standar speakers seem very close to the corners. If possible, you need to pull those away from the corners and into the room. That should help with some of booming sound. Also, the desk seems very close to the left front speaker. see if you can avoid the situation somehow.
  • The center speaker is very close to floor. Even if you tilt it up, its still quite close. Best is to move as high as possible, near the ear height. That's the best location for it anyway.
  • Your seating is very close to the back wall. Bass lingers more in the corners and near the walls. You should try and move your seating towards the front, away from the wall. A simple test would be start walking towards the front as the music is playing. see if you get an improvement. Then decide to move your seating location.
  • You have a sub. If its powerful enough, then cross-over the fronts at 80 hz. That will move the bass to the sub. Now try different placement for the sub so that there is not much booming. If you put the sub in the center of the wall, it reduces lot of booming. downside is - you lose the room gain offered by placing it in a corner. But there is always a tradeoff.
  • You can have the corner bass traps. see a thread by Pdhu to get an idea about those. Put two of those in the front two corners. But before that, if you can, try having one more sub. The thing with traps is - its absorbing. So, we are technically wasting the bass power. To compensate that, we have to put powerful subs. Instead, if we go with multiple subs, we need to less power and it helps take care of peaks n dips. But this takes care of only upto crossover frequency. Best would be the combination of both. Not overtly absorbing and then use multiple subs.
  • Since your seating is very close to the backwall, after doing above, you can put a sound absorption panel, at least 6 in thick (or 4" thick with 2" gap with wall). This will absorb bass lingering near seating position and other reflections from the front speakers too, making the front soundstage very clear.
  • Put some more furniture in the room. It will cause diffusion and avoid direct reflections. Too much diffusion is as bad as too much absorption. The sound will become too much muddy. Just add few things and see if you like it.
  • The last thing you can do is use an electronic equalizer which can bring the peaks and dips down. This also needs some measuring/analyzing equipment. You can use Room EQ wizard program on a pc. Remember, EQ fixes things at one place and make it worse at other. so, this should be your last resort. EQ works in few rooms, and others is makes it worse or no difference. But you can try it.

You can use rockwool to build the bass traps. Just get some info online and see if it meets your needs.

If you can post your room dimensions, speaker info, cross-over etc details then it will be easier to give inputs. All the best.
 
Thanks manoj for that extensive response.
I will pull the FS up front , but cannot move the table.
As for the centers, i can lift it a bit , then i have the screen so cannot go up any further.
If i go for a additional sub then which one would u suggest, & where can i place it.
What about some paintings on the wall , will that help
 
Hi Orthopod,

I'd like to start with segregating the problems:
1. Center speaker placed low. This is less than ideal, Tilt the speaker up so that the tweeters face you at the spot where you sit.
2. Plenty of reflecting surfaces. You're correct in wanting to apply absorbers, but bear in mind that these will not help for low frequencies. But do provide absorption so that the mids and highs don't sound harsh. Auditory fatigue will set in after an hour or so of listening, and you might just come out of your HT carrying a little headache, not necessarily caused by a bad movie :). I'm not in favour of glasswool either, and I always prefer woodwool boards, and some other eco-friendly fillings depending on the kind of finish you have in mind. With woodwool, fabric will be your only option for a finish. Anutone is fairly the most expensive option available, and woodwool alone costs a lot less. If you wish to use other eco-friendly fillings, try to use a metal grid for stuffing, that way the sawdust and carpentry will be avoided.
3. Poor bass response - perceivable peaks and dips, empty spots and booms. This is fairly predictable in smaller rooms. This is also the most tricky, and I don't suggest any kind of trial and error ( like "trying" to add another sub). For accurate treatment, room modes have to be calculated - these are resonant frequencies unique to each room. The dimensions of each room causes some sound waves to form exact multiples of themselves, and this causes stationary peaks and dips. To a lay person, this will mean an obvious dip or rise in boominess at various spots, instead of the uniform, tight-sounding bass that you wish to hear. Bass traps are usually calculated and designed, and they must be placed at specific problem locations in the room. I do not advocate randomly placing bass traps - it is a shot in the dark that leaves you poorer on effort and money, and on aesthetics.

For home theaters, a lot of times there are just no problems and your listening experience leaves you happy. However, in the event of you actually facing issues, the acoustics are enough to upset your experience. Having spent so much on the equipment and in getting the room done, I'd advise you to get correct technical advice from a local acoustical consultant.

This is pure science - the location of every peak and dip should be precisely calculated, and you won't run the risk of excessively treating the room and rendering it dead. I mention excessive treatment because uniformly applying 6" thick treatment on your walls will cause the mids and highs to be over-absorbed, and the room will not sound "live" anymore. While 6" of treatment may even work for the woofer frequencies, it is virtually transparent to the subwoofer frequencies, which systems these days can produce. Only when things don't fall in place by themselves, is accurate treatment more helpful than guesswork.

All the best.
 
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Thanks manoj for that extensive response.
I will pull the FS up front , but cannot move the table.
As for the centers, i can lift it a bit , then i have the screen so cannot go up any further.
If i go for a additional sub then which one would u suggest, & where can i place it.
What about some paintings on the wall , will that help

I would suggest you understand the need of the acoustics in your room and make a plan on that first if you want the diy route. Read through all the HT projects in HFV so that you will get a fair idea about what you need and then comeup with specific questions so that people can answer.

Treating only for bass is not enough in a dedicated / a closed room. Also you should prioritize the importance of this room, if it is for an HT, you should do the acoustics properly and the other related factors w/o getting interrupted by some tables / other existing furniture. If it needs some rearrangement, you should rearrange so that the main priority is served.
 
Thanks soundstage, but then the problem in a place like Mangalore is that there is no acoustics consultant. So we are left to fend for ourselves. All the suggestions finally leave you confused -- and thats exactly what i am now.
The bass boom continues in the meantime.
 
Thanks cmsajith.
This room has to double up as my daughters study as well. So cant tinker much with the furniture.
Cannot go the full HT way, though i would have loved to.
Saw your thread, loved the way you have gone about it. Thinking of getting the wood wool boards.
 
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Hi Orthopod,

Firstly, Mangalore is one of my favourite places. My parents were brought up there, and I studied in Nitte :). You have fantastic green space there, and trust me it takes a while to get used to Bangalore's noisy hum when we come back here. At least you don't have to solve road traffic noise issues!

Unfortunately I don't know any acoustical consultant in Mangalore, or else I'd have recommended their names to you. As it stands, I agree that too many suggestions will leave you going around in circles, but the fact remains that in your case, accurate treatment with proper technical consultation will surely save you more money than you'd spend on trial and error. I'm based in Bangalore, and I can't advertise or solicit on this forum, so I'll do what I can offsite. Send me your room's dimensions (all of them - L, B, H, height at center), and I'll calculate the bass boom sore spots and tell you where to place the bass traps. It won't be better than taking live measurements, but that's all I can offer on this forum.

As far as reverberation treatment for mids and highs is concerned, give me a day or two and I'll figure out how much treatment you'll need. I'm sure Mangalore has local dealers from whom you can get wood wool boards. Check your local yellow pages. If you don't find one, I can recommend this guy - Suhas Tendulkar (Balaji Lightweight insulations) from mumbai. I haven't had a chance to work with him yet, but I've made enquiries with him regarding a few projects that are not yet in the construction stage, and I think he charges reasonably.

Also can you check if you can increase the carpeted area - carpets provide valuable absorption - more the merrier in your case, and the amount of treatment required can be reduced with that. They are also conveniently removable - you can roll them up and place them somewhere when you're not watching a movie.

Warm regards,
Roopa
 
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I had called 8 Acoustics Consultants in Delhi when I was builing my HT. Believe me they are not as much of an expert as we believe them to be and they charge really hefty amounts. So not having a acoustical consultant in Mangalore is not that bad. :)
I think you can very good advice from members of this forum and you can further read about acoutics on the net for some basic stuff.
Have you tried some of the basic things like extra carpet etc. that some members have suggested?
 
orthopod,

Create corner traps each on either side of the screen. Start from the floor to the ceiling. Fill in the vertical corners, I am sure room will not get dead. It will be less than 10% of the total surface area. WIth regards to the side walls, do it at your convieniance. Believe me Corner traps create a whole lot of improvement in the sound quality.

You can check my thread wherein the making of bass traps and first reflection absorbers is discussed in detail. Intrestingly My room size is same as yours like 17 by 12.5 ft.

http://www.hifivision.com/av-enhancers-room-acoustics/10892-need-help-room-acoustics.html
 
I had called 8 Acoustics Consultants in Delhi when I was builing my HT. Believe me they are not as much of an expert as we believe them to be and they charge really hefty amounts. So not having a acoustical consultant in Mangalore is not that bad. :)
I think you can very good advice from members of this forum and you can further read about acoutics on the net for some basic stuff.
Have you tried some of the basic things like extra carpet etc. that some members have suggested?

Unfortunately, I have to agree. Acoustics is at a very nascent stage in India, and it is worrysome that the bulk of people "practising" are not technically qualified. It is even more difficult to find a consultant who provides unbiased technical solutions with no commissions from any product vendor. Acoustics is a science, and you can't learn it by experience - the site conditions are different for each case and it is difficult to generalize. Please remember to check credentials before hiring anyone, and the "number" of projects done is not a significant criteria here.

Hiring a consultant does go against the spirit of DIY. It finally boils down to how much time and money you wish to spend on trials. I rest my case.

All the best,
Roopa
 
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