Mid to high end speaker options

[arj]

Re: Rockport technologies

Thanks Captain. They have the same house sound because they use the same coaxial driver, however these sound significantly better, more forward, greater bass (tighter and deeper), even sharper imaging and huge soundstage. Of-course these are much larger, have a hidden 8" bass driver and a ribbon ambience tweeter, and are significantly more expensive. However as I explained in a previous post the key, is that they are stand mounters and that is really, what I have come to realize, will work the best in my smallish room.
Cheers,
Sid

Congrats Sid, great buy and looks like you are going to be a happy camper till the upgraditis bug wanders in again :lol:

I just saw the internal diagram..WOW that is one interesting design

As its sketch shows, the Ascendo innards divide into four chambers. The lowest is sealed to create the band-pass pressure chamber and, at its underside, houses the crossover. A floor higher sits the vented enclosure which acts as Helmholz resonator driven by the hidden woofer. The corner frequencies of this band-pass are 29Hz (the F3 of the woofer) and 90Hz which doubles as 18db/octave hand-over to the coaxial unit. The latter fires into its own rear chamber as does the magnetostat.

 

[Jatt_boy]

Re: Rockport technologies

Congrats Sidvee,

Hopefully you will be writing about your experience in the near future. My queries are related to sound stage & depth perception as the tweeter is at the rear end of the speaker cabinet.

Does Audire have any of the same model available for demo or was this specially imported for you?

Thanks

 

[sidvee]

Re: Rockport technologies

Ascendo C8
Type: Three-way or four-way floorstander with SASB bass unit
Frequency response: 29Hz32kHz -3dB
Impedance: 6 ohms
Sensitivity: 88dB 1W/m
Drivers: 1" fabric tweeter, 7" woofer with XP cone, 8.5" woofer with Kevlar cone, ribbon-tweeter
Dimensions: 11" x 43" x 15.5" (without base)
Weight: 77 lbs.
Price: $8500

Thanks Bhagwan,
These specs are for the floor stander though. Not much difference in the frequency response but dimensions etc. are different. Also prices are different now as well. US msrp of the C8R is in excess of $10k.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[sidvee]

Re: Rockport technologies

Congrats Sid. Any changes planned on the amplification front or is the Lamm/SL combo suiting these as well?

Thanks Jai. No plans at present, but am looking at some higher end preamps. both ss and tube. Perhaps next year.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[sidvee]

Re: Rockport technologies

Congrats Sidvee,

Hopefully you will be writing about your experience in the near future. My queries are related to sound stage & depth perception as the tweeter is at the rear end of the speaker cabinet.

Does Audire have any of the same model available for demo or was this specially imported for you?

Thanks

Thanks Jatt_boy. Speakers are burning in, after that I will definitely post my impressions. As I understand this was imported for me, not sure that they have any demo. models.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[bhagwan]

Re: Rockport technologies

Congrats Sidvee,

My queries are related to sound stage & depth perception as the tweeter is at the rear end of the speaker cabinet.

Sir,
The Tweeter is in the front.
The Driver is a Co-Axil one.
What you see at the back is a Ribbon for Ambiance Details.:clapping:

 

[Jatt_boy]

Re: Rockport technologies

Sir,
The Tweeter is in the front.
The Driver is a Co-Axil one.
What you see at the back is a Ribbon for Ambiance Details.:clapping:

Thank you sir for shedding light on my query. It was specifically asked in relation to the dedicated ribbon tweeter & its purpose at the rear end of the cabinet in relation to a co-ax one in front. Can you also answer with regard to sound stage & depth as asked in first post of mine?

You say ribbon tweeter for ambiant details, so will it be doing exactly what ambiant lighting does???

Do shed more light on your experience with this, as it is very interesting.
I hope Sidvee does not mind specifically asking regarding this query since FM Bhagwan appears to have experience with this speaker or types of speakers.

Thanks

 

[bhagwan]

Re: Rockport technologies

since FM Bhagwan appears to have experience with this speaker or types of speakers.

Thanks

Sir,
I have heard this speaker;
I like it.
However, on a specific front, I do not know what frequency it plays from [lower & upper cut off i.e.] & nor do I know what SPL does it play at with relation to the co-axil dome in the front.
I suppose these questions may be best answered by the D & D or maybe by the designer - directly.
Sorry to disappoint.
If the owner of the speaker knows - I am sure he will shed some light.
My 'technical' understanding on most audio related topics is very limited.

 

[sidvee]

Re: Rockport technologies

However, on a specific front, I do not what what frequency it plays from & now do I know what SPL does it play at with relation to the co-axil dome in the front.


If the owner of the speaker knows - I am sure he will shed some light.

Actually I am not too sure of specific levels of the ribbon vs the front dome. However as I was testing it, whenever I activated that ribbon, on some recordings it sounded wonderful as if the stage was suddenly deeper on others it was not great, sounded distracting. I have yet to play around with placement as it is a large and heavy speaker, but the suggestions are that there has to be adequate space behind the back cabinet (I have 28" at present) for it to sound its best. Will let the speaker burn in, then I will experiment with placement and report back.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[arj]

Re: Rockport technologies

I have read of rear firing tweeter in various models. Gradient revolution is a very good example off late that i have heard as well.
I believe Infinity used to do it in the past pretty well. The objective can be debatable but (Allegedly !) it adds a more spatial cues due to reverberation and hence the increased depth

Anyway here is a thread where some bashing/counter-bashing has already happened
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/222708-what-benefits-rear-firing-tweeters.html

 

[arj]

Re: Rockport technologies

well this got me interested and I googled a bit

07-26-12: Atmasphere
The reason there are rear-firing tweeters has to do with human hearing/perceptual rules.

When the ear hears a sound, the brain makes a copy of the sound and then looks for sounds that might be similar. If it finds one, it does a comparison and looks for differences. This is part of the brain's processing to sort out where the sound is coming from.

Essentially what is happening here is the speaker designer is taking advantage of the brain's processing by providing short-delay echo information. The result is that you get improved imaging and soundstage, because the brain is better able to sort out from where the sounds appears to be coming. So its not *just* for better polar response!

I believe he is the designer of Atmasphere

From what I read, it works great in damped rooms and may not if the reverberation is high anyway
AudiogoN Forums: rear firing tweeters....

 

[mpw]

Re: Rockport technologies

sidvee,

do you plan to start another thread for the ascendo c8 ?

this thread is shaping up well for a nice debate..

mpw

 

[arj]

Re: Rockport technologies

this thread is shaping up well for a nice debate..

mpw

LOL

On a different note..found this as well

Q: Why have a rear mounted tweeter

6. to keep other tweeters from creeping up on them from behind
5. makes the crossover stay in line
4. both tweeters can then do kinky things with the mids
3. under certain conditions the plotted phase patterns of both tweeters combined will predict the stock market
2. so you can cruise audio departments at Best Buy, Tweeters and Circuit City and let it it drop in casual conversation.

 

[sidvee]

Re: Rockport technologies

Guys no problem in discussing the design aspects here. Ultimately this thread, for me at-least was the culmination of a year and half's search for my Harbeth SHL5's replacement. Perhaps the title is misleading as it is no longer about Rockports.
As far as the ambience ribbon tweeter is concerned, there is a switch behind to turn it off, so really it is the listener's choice. Main reason why I considered this design is the fact that my real hi-fi journey with the mid/higher end started over two decades ago with a similar design - The DCM time frame v8.0's, which had 2 ambient dome tweeters in the bevelled edges to the rear of the speaker. I owned this speaker for 7 years and its sound remains with me to this day - in my thoughts. I really loved the airy, spacious presentations of this speaker. So this is my small attempt to try and get back that type of sound. Hope I will succeed. So far it looks promising but have to get correct positioning and perhaps a bit of burn in.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[hydrovac]

Re: Rockport technologies

Hey Sid!

Congratulations on your new pair of Ascendo C8 speakers. I'm sure you are satisfied at the upgrade from previous set. I imagine after some calibrating/fine-tuning, AND after they've had a few weeks to "break in," they'll sound even better.
Look forward to your opinion once you have it all up and running.

@ arj

(The corner frequencies of this band-pass are 29Hz (the F3 of the woofer) and 90Hz which doubles as 18db/octave hand-over to the coaxial unit.)

3rd order band pass? I'm curious where did it come from?

As far from what I read and built, to the best of my knowledge, there is no such thing as... third order band pass alignment. If you are talking about an acoustic band pass system... the least is 4th order transfer function (one chamber sealed, the other one vented).

Can anybody tell me what this is?

Thanks

 

[arj]

Rockport technologies

(The corner frequencies of this band-pass are 29Hz (the F3 of the woofer) and 90Hz which doubles as 18db/octave hand-over to the coaxial unit.)



3rd order band pass? I'm curious where did it come from?



As far from what I read and built, to the best of my knowledge, there is no such thing as... third order band pass alignment. If you are talking about an acoustic band pass system... the least is 4th order transfer function (one chamber sealed, the other one vented).



Can anybody tell me what this is?



Thanks

That's from the 6moons review hydrovac . To me a bandpass means a passing band

 

[Nikhil]

Re: Rockport technologies

@ arj

(The corner frequencies of this band-pass are 29Hz (the F3 of the woofer) and 90Hz which doubles as 18db/octave hand-over to the coaxial unit.)

3rd order band pass? I'm curious where did it come from?

As far from what I read and built, to the best of my knowledge, there is no such thing as... third order band pass alignment. If you are talking about an acoustic band pass system... the least is 4th order transfer function (one chamber sealed, the other one vented).

Can anybody tell me what this is?

Thanks

Hydrovac, on the 6moons review it's simply referred to as a band pass solution.
Ascendo also just calls it a "semi symmetrical" band pass (to highlight the fact that its roll-off is shallower on the top than bottom)
There is no mention of 3rd order bandpass anywhere.

You might have picked that up mistakenly from the term "F3 of the woofer"
That refers to the point where the woofer drops off by 3db i.e. at 29Hz.

 

[Nikhil]

Re: Rockport technologies

6moons website mentioned it clearly:

6moons audio reviews: Ascendo C8 Renaissance

Corvus,

Thanks for pointing that out. I had assumed Hydrovac had misread the terminology.

Still the bass unit enclosure in the C8R is a 4th order bandpass from what I can see.
Perhaps the 18db/octave is an acoustic crossover or is a 3rd order Butterworth in the crossover circuit.

 

[hydrovac]

Re: Rockport technologies

That's from the 6moons review hydrovac . To me a bandpass means a passing band

Ah, ok I see now.

Where did the review come from? fairaudio.de.
Not from 6moon audio in the first place. Its one of the syndicated translations that they do.

So, what is the passing band in this whole scenario?

 

[hydrovac]

Re: Rockport technologies

Corvus,

Thanks for pointing that out. I had assumed Hydrovac had misread the terminology.

Still the bass unit enclosure in the C8R is a 4th order bandpass from what I can see.
Perhaps the 18db/octave is an acoustic crossover or is a 3rd order Butterworth in the crossover circuit.

(There is no mention of 3rd order bandpass anywhere)

So after these self contradictory statements, what consideration then do you give finally to the alignment?
Sorry for not being the idiot of the forum, but what did u mean by that post???? Doesnt my query make any sense? Also I think you could go into more depth on what pass band and acoustic filter is.

I have a small understanding myself, but would like to know more how do you achieve asymmetrical acoustic slopes?

I'm waiting for some of the more experienced members to chime in on this.

Meanwhile I have forwarded the same query to the designer/manufacturer also

Thank you sir