Modern 15inch drivers vs Altecs & Tannoys

reubensm

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With a magnificent Garrard 401 in the kitty, the next stop on my hi-fi journey is to get a good pair of speakers. I have always been fascinated by huge bass-reflex designs and horn designs. However, most of my friends are against horn designs as they are expensive to build. My current wish list includes some Tannoy and Altec designs.

The choice is now down to the drivers. I have my eyes on vintage Altecs 416-8B woofers and corresponding treble horns and of course, Tannoy MG 15 Dual concentrics (or Tannoy MG 12s). However I have always wondered whether these vintage drivers can play modern aggressive music like Trance and Heavy Metal. Are there any modern drivers with the same dimensions and power ratings that can be used in horn or bass reflex configurations with better results? Recently I came across the woofer, midrange horns and high frequency horns of a Klipsch La Scala speaker system but backed out of the purchase at the last minute (thankfully someone else bid higher and bought it) as I was not sure. Have also seen the Klipschorn's woofer and high-frequency drivers and was advised against buying them (in both cases, the cross overs were included).

I am not a fan of local drivers like peerless, etc. Looking at other global options. Please comment.
 
Most vintage tables have limited bass extension. Most of them may be in the 40 hz range. Pl keep this in mind. Among the newer 15 inchers, Eminence, BMS, Beyma are considered good. I have no personal experience with any of these drivers though
 
Noticed that the Eminence 15 inchers have smaller magnets, I've been brought up to believe that the bigger the magnet, the better the bass reproduction and power handling, not sure again. Maybe the magnets of today are more powerful and efficient when compared to magnets of the 1950s and 1960s.
 
One is the extension. Other is the speed and dynamics. In this regard modern drivers may be better. The older ones may have better tone and timbre though. It boils down to personal preference.
 
Forget the Tannoy's, Heavy Metal ain't ever gonna sound like Heavy Metal on any Tannoy, because they are not meant to be playing that kind of music in the first place.

The other issue with the old & much fangled drivers that we keep hearing about is their originality. One is most likely to end up with reconed drivers, messed up X-overs & other less charitable things done to them knowing or unknowingly.

I would trust only new gen drivers from the likes of Beyma, which I too am very seriously considering keeping in mind the music I listen to (hard rock/heavy/speed/black/death metal)

Kanwar seems to swear by Beyma's so you should get him into this discussion ASAP.
 
For your kind of listening preference get a used Altec 19 or 14 or Valencia. You will never need to upgrade again
 
With a magnificent Garrard 401 in the kitty, the next stop on my hi-fi journey is to get a good pair of speakers. I have always been fascinated by huge bass-reflex designs and horn designs. However, most of my friends are against horn designs as they are expensive to build. My current wish list includes some Tannoy and Altec designs.

The choice is now down to the drivers. I have my eyes on vintage Altecs 416-8B woofers and corresponding treble horns and of course, Tannoy MG 15 Dual concentrics (or Tannoy MG 12s). However I have always wondered whether these vintage drivers can play modern aggressive music like Trance and Heavy Metal. Are there any modern drivers with the same dimensions and power ratings that can be used in horn or bass reflex configurations with better results? Recently I came across the woofer, midrange horns and high frequency horns of a Klipsch La Scala speaker system but backed out of the purchase at the last minute (thankfully someone else bid higher and bought it) as I was not sure. Have also seen the Klipschorn's woofer and high-frequency drivers and was advised against buying them (in both cases, the cross overs were included).

I am not a fan of local drivers like peerless, etc. Looking at other global options. Please comment.

Trance, HM? Short answer no.
 
I remember reading that one of the biggest reasons for these older drivers having a cult following is the fact that they use AlNiCo magnets - the modern drivers use ferrite, and there is a world of difference. I would probably not even consider a Ferrite driver for a vintage system. If you go vintage, go full vintage, and knowing your preference is for full restoration to Resto modding, You're better off with proper vintage stuff.

I remember you were hunting for some Vintage Jap speakers (Pioneer HPM series if I recall - any update on that?)
 
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Reuben,

Bigger cones have distinctive charm with LF. With modern day pro-audio drivers, coaxial units are still available and are used in many places where coherency is main objective.

Beyma Coaxials featuring Neodymium magnets and compression driver HF embedded in motor structure just like Altec and Tannoy drivers. Added bonus is Perfect Time-Alignment.

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Best HM speaker is not necessarily best for trance.
HM sounds best with small fast drivers which are not very clean. HM loves distortion attack.
Trance needs deep bass with large long stroke drivers, with LF sustain
rather than speed, physical sensation.
Spacial imagery is a winner in Trance, a trait not required much in HM.
Your call
 
I remember reading that one of the biggest reasons for these older drivers having a cult following is the fact that they use AlNiCo magnets - the modern drivers use ferrite, and there is a world of difference. I would probably not even consider a Ferrite driver for a vintage system. If you go vintage, go full vintage, and knowing your preference is for full restoration to Resto modding, You're better off with proper vintage stuff.
So in short, forget the rest of the driver, as long as it has THE ONE & ONLY ALNICO MAGNET!!! Now let us bow down & say WE ARE NOT WORTHY< WE ARE NOT WORTHY :clapping:
 
Reubensm listens to a lot of other stuff too, other than metal and trance. He will need a speaker which can do reasonable justice to all kinds of music. More of an all rounder
 
Reubensm listens to a lot of other stuff too, other than metal and trance. He will need a speaker which can do reasonable justice to all kinds of music. More of an all rounder

Prem,

That is why i have recommended Beyma Coaxials, because they are inherently time-aligned, faster in transient attack and still give substantial lows when put in TL type enclosure along with precise clarity and smoothness in vocal range. :)
 
Hi Kanwar

I guessed as much. I too would prefer modern drivers. There is so much uncertainty with vintage drivers. Unless one is absolutely sure of the source for vintage drivers I would avoid them
 
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So in short, forget the rest of the driver, as long as it has THE ONE & ONLY ALNICO MAGNET!!! Now let us bow down & say WE ARE NOT WORTHY< WE ARE NOT WORTHY :clapping:

I have read that alnico magnets are better, but are they that much better:eek:?
 
For those of us still in doubt of modern coaxials with high powered modern(SS) AND/OR vintage-type(read valve)low-powered amps, I must share that its not only Beyma but also P-Audio of Thailand who are known for making very good coaxials that are very poular as studio monitors, not to mention home stereo.
I was slightly skeptical about the sonic quality of P-Audio coaxials, till I heard the 12 ones some time ago(never heard the 15 version, but I can imagine, somewhat . . . ).
Case in point is that Audio Nirvana aka Commonsense Audio had this to say about the P-Audio coaxials that they have been selling for years now.
QUOTE
As an example of the quality, the BM12CX38 weighs 31 lbs, has a cast frame, 4 inch voice coil, and 2 inch compression driver. It handles 600 watts RMS (woofer) and is 101 db efficient (in cabinets). The CX38 series of drivers, along with our 6.5 to 15 inch Audio Nirvana full-range and coaxial drivers, are the best sounding speakers we've heard in 40 years in the business.

The PAudio BM15CX38 weighs 38 lbs, has a cast aluminum frame, 4 inch voice coil, and 2 inch compression driver. It handles 600 watts RMS (woofer) and is 101 db efficient (in cabinets). The woofer cone is paper. The accordian style pleated surround is treated cloth. The compression horn tweeter uses the woofer cone as the dispersion lens. There is an acoustically transparent dust cap to protect the tweeter, which uses a spun aluminum horn.
UNQUOTE
Link : PAudio Coaxial Speakers For Sale. Full-Range, One Speaker, High Efficiency, DIY, Monitor Speakers.

It is pertinent to mention that they are now apparently left with only the 15" coaxials listed at $895 a pair. The 12" and smaller drivers were obviously sold out some time back by these guys. Then, P-Audio discontinued this design and replaced it with these
http://www.paudiothailand.com/pdf/products/SN15-500CX6.pdf
http://www.paudiothailand.com/pdf/products/SN12-500CX3.pdf
http://www.paudiothailand.com/pdf/products/SN8-250CX4.pdf

It was then that Commonsense dictated (pun intended) that they start manufacturing their own coaxials instead. Therefore, the write-up about the 12 and 8 coaxials was amended(their "replacements" announced in block capital letters) on their page as reproduced under-
QUOTE
The PAudio BM8CXA 'Special' weighs 12 lbs, has a cast aluminum frame, 2 inch voice coil, and 1 inch compression driver. It handles 200 watts RMS (woofer) and is 98 db efficient (in cabinets). The woofer cone is paper. The accordian style pleated surround is treated cloth. The compression horn tweeter uses the woofer cone as the dispersion lens. There is an acoustically transparent dust cap to protect the tweeter, which uses a spun aluminum horn. We recommend running the woofer fullrange and using a single capacitor for the tweeter. We can advise on the best value capacitor for your system. DISCONTINUED. RECOMMEND AUDIO NIRVANA SUPER 8 COAXIAL INSTEAD ($350/PR).

The PAudio BM12CX38 weighs 31 lbs, has a cast aluminum frame, 4 inch voice coil, and 2 inch compression driver. It handles 600 watts RMS (woofer) and is 101 db efficient (in cabinets). The woofer cone is paper. The accordian style pleated surround is treated cloth. The compression horn tweeter uses the woofer cone as the dispersion lens. There is an acoustically transparent dust cap to protect the tweeter, which uses a spun aluminum horn. We recommend running the woofer fullrange and using a single capacitor for the tweeter. We can advise on the best value capacitor for your system. DISCONTINUED. RECOMMEND AUDIO NIRVANA SUPER 12 CAST FRAME INSTEAD ($298/PR).
UNQUOTE

The write-up of the 15 AN coaxial is reproduced as under-
QUOTE
The Audio Nirvana 'Super 15 Coaxial' ($698/pr) has a frequency response from 26 hz to 25,000 hz. You can expect at least 99 db efficiency in any of our cabinets. It handles 70 watts continuous RMS (normal listening level will be about 1/10 watt). Impedance is 8 ohms. Voice coil is 2.0 inches (50 mm) for the woofer and 1.5 inches (38 mm) for the tweeter. Magnet weight is 4.3 lbs (woofer) and 4 oz (tweeter). Total weight is 19 lbs. The woofer cone is made of paper. The surround is accordion style and made of treated cloth. The frame is cast aluminum. There are separate terminals for the woofer and the tweeter so the speakers can be biwired, if desired. The compression horn tweeter uses a titanium diaphram and surround and rare earth neodymium magnet. This speaker is more properly called a 'triaxial' because it has a whizzer cone for midrange information. The best classic coaxial drivers were also triaxials.
UNQUOTE

The point one tries to make is that if a firm like AN were selling(and lavishly praising) P-Audio coaxials alongside their own drivers, till they were all sold out, then those Thai Coaxials must have been very good, No?

However, I am at a loss to comment whether the present day line-up of P-Audio coaxials live upto their predecessors' name. Any pointers on that, anyone?
 
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Kanwar, what Tannoy makes for the studio, are the coaxials different from those used in home audio
 
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