Modern 15inch drivers vs Altecs & Tannoys

[grubyhalo]

...i am following it up to build something similar with inputs from martin of azurahorn,Lynn olson and Dave...

Please do create a thread for your project, right from the design phase if at all possible. It would be of great help to people like me. Thanks in advance...

 

[square_wave]

Yes, here are my listening tastes through the years:

Born 1971
0-1 yr - don't remember
1-3 yrs - anything dad used to play that sounded musical
3-7 yrs - lot of instrumental music, elvis, pink floyd, the doors, eagles, etc
7-12yrs - Boney M, Abba, Tina Charles, Biddu, Village People and other Disco stuff
12-15yrs - Eurodance Music
15-23yrs - Glam Metal
23-35yrs - Glam Metal, Thrash Metal, Speed Metal and anything hard and heavy
36-present - All types of music from the Western World and Bollywood (very recently)

Motley crue was a big glam rock band I used to follow in my teens

 

[captrajesh]

Hi Capt, I was talking about tables, not speakers

Apologies Prem missed that. Since the talk was on speakers, missed it in the flow.

 

[prem]

Hey Capt no sweat. Since Reubensm was checking about modern drivers I wanted to point out that there's no point looking at drivers that go upto 20 hz if the source can't handle such info

 

[manoj.p]

In my opinion - its always better to start with a speaker that can do 30 Hz to 20 Khz very accurately & effortlessly, without coloration and has wider sweet spot. Then you add a powerful amp (again neutral amp) and you get all the dynamics coupled with the speaker. This speaker then can play everything as you throw on it, be it rock, metal, trance, classical. Source does matter in this case because it will play it faithfully. Can't expect this kind of setup to mask the shortcomings in MP3.

Good thing about big woofers is that to play low bass, it does not have to move the cone as much, hence low distortion and ease. The other 2 way offerings have mid range driver as woofer and its cone has to move much for making low bass, almost driving those to excursion limits. No problem as such with big drivers. Since the bass becomes more profound, it can quite mask the high frequency, so choosing a very good HF driver also becomes important in this situation. But if carefully planned, this can be a speaker for all the sources.

 

[viren bakhshi]

A major misconception is that the driver is the speaker! The driver is only a part of the speaker system. Pick a driver; measure its parameters - then decide on the enclosure to bring out the best in that driver. If a multi-driver system, be prepared to spend most of your design effort in getting the crossover right.

Just take a closer look at the dynamic speaker driver. In its basic engineering, has anything changed since it came out in the '40s? Isn't everything now only a takeoff of that vintage design? Shouldn't everything now also be called a "vintage" design? What has changed has been different material choices - not always for the better.

Why are the vintage drivers still revered? Why do we constantly compare designs with them? One thing that those drivers got right was the reproduction of tone - essential for lifelike reproduction of music. So, if a "modern" driver cannot emulate that, all that "advancement" in engineering goes to waste.

The early designers were music listeners. They had an ear for music, which governed how their designs came out. So, we should learn from them. Not copy them blindly, for there are always improvements to be made, but learn. But if in doubt about what to do, be assured that the "vintage" designs were built for music!

Regards,
Viren

 

[prem]

Very well put Viren.

 

[manoj.p]

Viren,

Yes, quite agree on the part that the design is more or less same since the old days. The choice of material and some of the manufacturing techniques are different now, but the core design is still same. Although we can't say that all the "vintage" designs were great. Just like there are some great as well as crappy drivers and speakers now, there were lots of bad speakers back then too. But as always, when we look at past, we tend to filter out the bad one and the stand out just the great ones. Out of all the designs of 40~50 years back, only a handful vintage is revered and rightfully so.

There is one major design change for speakers over the time though. Back then, speakers were designed to work with very little power. 20~30 watts was considered a lot. So, the speakers back then were big and quite efficient. Over the time, trend somehow went towards smaller speakers and compensated by more power. Which design is great - again depends on the actual speakers.

 

[shafic]

+1 Verenji!! You are absolutely right!

 

[shafic]

Recently i got some vintage drivers ( Goodmans Axiom 301, Philips 9710 Alnico, Rola G12 Alnico and some Alnico horns). They are sounding wonderful.

I have heard many drivers (Ceramic & Alnico). I think Alnicos have midrange magic.

 

[reubensm]

The early designers were music listeners. They had an ear for music, which governed how their designs came out. So, we should learn from them

True words of wisdom. Was always brought up to believe that what we must aim for is for what sounds good to our ears. Not the right approach to indulge in equipment because of brand, bragging rights, online reviews or results from testing or evaluation in a laboratory environment

 

[reubensm]

Please do create a thread for your project, right from the design phase if at all possible. It would be of great help to people like me. Thanks in advance...

sure, when I start, have 2 turntable plinth builds to complete before that. This thread is for information gathering. Need to do a lot of research as this is virgin territory for me.

 

[mekr]

I want to mention another full range modern alinico drivers, ENVIEE 8,many enthusiasts have built open baffle with these drivers and speakers like soundkaos built with these drivers have received many accolades
Viren has put the core in his post,that vintage drivers and audio components had soul and emotion,though modern components have full bandwidth

 

[Jatt_boy]

The early designers were music listeners. They had an ear for music, which governed how their designs came out. So, we should learn from them. Not copy them blindly, for there are always improvements to be made, but learn. But if in doubt about what to do, be assured that the "vintage" designs were built for music!

Regards,
Viren

So present day listeners and designers(including you) are not music lovers .....That means all the new age drivers are not made for music lovers ?? . If not then for whom they are made??. And one should neglect new age drivers altogether and hunt for vintage stuff which has no guarantee if it is genuine or reconed, just because a certain kind of tone is associated with them.

Viren,

Yes, quite agree on the part that the design is more or less same since the old days. The choice of material and some of the manufacturing techniques are different now, but the core design is still same. Although we can't say that all the "vintage" designs were great. Just like there are some great as well as crappy drivers and speakers now, there were lots of bad speakers back then too. But as always, when we look at past, we tend to filter out the bad one and the stand out just the great ones. Out of all the designs of 40~50 years back, only a handful vintage is revered and rightfully so.

+1, one should not generalize that being vintage= always good. Good and bad drivers were in every era.

Viren has put the core in his post,that vintage drivers and audio components had soul and emotion,though modern components have full bandwidth

Now this is confusing me altogether. If the listener hears the soul as bass and the treble as emotions , these being at extreme end of spectrum (needs a full ranger or wide-bander driver), so by your saying its contradicting in itself.

Or is that once should assume that only vocals are the main ingredient in listening, rest of it should be treated as outlaw.

 

[ESP]

tone is 1 thing
what about the speakers ability to produce the entire bandwidth?
or ppl want the info present in the recordings to remain hidden from them???

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Surely it is easy to agree that something is not good just because it is old (look at me, for instance :lol. It is still possible to recognise gems from the past that are good.

 

[mekr]

tone is 1 thing
what about the speakers ability to produce the entire bandwidth?
or ppl want the info present in the recordings to remain hidden from them???

majority of vintage speakers like WE or Altec or all the other from Europe and UK were used for movies in theatres and on the higher frequency were using seperate HF driver. WE had frequency range of 80-12KHZ.

I have not heard WE ,but people who have heard WE speakers vouch for its sound and particularly midrange magic.

 

[denom]

majority of vintage speakers like WE or Altec or all the other from Europe and UK were used for movies in theatres and on the higher frequency were using seperate HF driver. WE had frequency range of 80-12KHZ.

I have not heard WE ,but people who have heard WE speakers vouch for its sound and particularly midrange magic.

:thumbsup: You've hit the nail on the head. Application is always key, which many sadly forget

Rueben, I think you need to listen to your heart & go for something that will do justice to Heavy Metal & Trance more than any other genre of music. No compromise this time, just say this to yourself :yahoo:

 

[mekr]

:thumbsup: You've hit the nail on the head. Application is always key, which many sadly forget

Rueben, I think you need to listen to your heart & go for something that will do justice to Heavy Metal & Trance more than any other genre of music. No compromise this time, just say this to yourself :yahoo:

Denom,

I had B & W matrix tower speakers,i found slightly bright in HF ,which made me uneasy.
Then i bought Living Voice after hearing many speakers like Audio Physic,Opera,
and others,in my budget i found these to be musical and involving without harshness, so i bought these matching these to leben tube amp.
When i hear my system, i feel in seventh heaven with the kind of sound being perfect,

 

[soundofmusic]

@ Jatt Boy
Very few modern drivers are made by Music Lovers, every thing has become a mass Market and you cant expect these speakers to touch your soul.
But the Vintage( the popular ones) can produce the LF,Mid and the Hi freq in such a way that you are lost in its Musicality. There are Fantastic Design even from the Latest generation speakers, but few.
Go to Ebay , etc and you can see the Altec , WE, Tannoys ( Manufactured some 40-50 years back) going for a Premium price. Will any one buy the Modern day drivers ( few exceptions) after 20 years?
Kindly listen to a good Vintage system and your views will change.
Regards