My first impression with Denon DL 103

[kuruvilajacob]

Hi folks,

I fixed a brand new Denon DL 103 on my Garrard 103 with 3012 SME tonearm. It is the most musical cart I have ever listened to. My friend gee_george of the forum says it will keep improving after about 50 Hrs of playing. I want to thank Stevieboy for his suggestion to try DL 103 on 3012.


kuruvilajacob

 

[stevieboy]

Hi Kuruvilajacob,

Good to know you're enjoying the cart and welcome. After it burns in do experiment with cart headshell weights, 3 or 8 grams plates that one adds above the cart and below the headshell to add mass. The Denon by most accounts does better with more mass so the suspension is loaded more optimally. Then next are the wood bodies or the Zu route.

Regards

 

[arj]

There is this guy called David in Hong kong who makes a great Aluminium body as well.

 

[stevieboy]

The Midas Arj? Though Zu's epoxy for fitting the cart to the headshell would also play a role in coupling/resonance flowing/control I guess in the final sound signature.

Regards

 

[arj]

The Midas Arj? Though Zu's epoxy for fitting the cart to the headshell would also play a role in coupling/resonance flowing/control I guess in the final sound signature.

Regards

Thats right Steveiboy..but on hindsight this works better with a Wood Headshell so the wooden body might just be better with the SME.
I do not know too much on the epoxy part of Zu thought.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

Stevieboy,

I am planning to insert a 3 mm copper plate after it burns in. Is it really worth changing the shell? I wonder how much change it can make

 

[tek]

Kuruvila, my advice would be to just sit back and enjoy the music! Tinkering is an endless path! But, If you must, then feel free to upgrade/tinker. You have just bought one of the most legendary, and longest enduring, carts ever built! It's practically historical! Enjoy it for what it is.

I am currently using the DL 110, and when I finally get a decent amp with MC inputs, I will probably go in for the 103 for my Lenco L-70! Can't wait! Until then, I am very happy with the 110

 

[arj]

Stevieboy,

I am planning to insert a 3 mm copper plate after it burns in. Is it really worth changing the shell? I wonder how much change it can make

I am planing a surgery on my DL103r..will le you know. BTW many folks jsut remove the shell and use the cartridge nude.
the plastic is supoposed to add resonance.

 

[stevieboy]

I am planing a surgery on my DL103r..will le you know. BTW many folks jsut remove the shell and use the cartridge nude.
the plastic is supoposed to add resonance.

Aha will await results. That operation scares me bigtime!

Stevieboy,

I am planning to insert a 3 mm copper plate after it burns in. Is it really worth changing the shell? I wonder how much change it can make

Change it and see But after you get used to the sound of the stock cartridge only.

Thats right Steveiboy..but on hindsight this works better with a Wood Headshell so the wooden body might just be better with the SME.
I do not know too much on the epoxy part of Zu thought.

Arj, the aluminum body works with the commonly used aluminum headshells in an SME. That's Zu's philosophy in choosing the material also, so resonances flow on and don't reflect back to the cart. They have something like that on their site or was in one interview done with Casey. Of course wood bodies were around long before Zu and have the advantage of being able to be swapped in and out which one cannot do with a Zu. The epoxy helps in bonding the cart to the body unlike the press fits in wood bodies.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

This is my first experience with Denon Carts. I have used Goldring 1006 , Grado pretige black and almost all models of Shure except V-15. I think I will go for a DL 110 in the near future. I've seen some very good reviews about about DL110 and DL160. Any comments.

 

[stevieboy]

Kuruvilajacob,

The 110 and 160 are good but are probably a step lower down from the 103. Of course if money is a consideration then try a good ortofon also. I find they get something inherently right in the music. non hifi natural sound.

Regards

 

[arj]

Aha will await results. That operation scares me bigtime!
.

OK..it WORKS. (I cheated though..i had the main surgery done by David of Midas when i bought it from him..but had to put it back in the original casing as i was having some gain problems) now that I have an SUT i re-operated and put it back.
the initial 1 hour was scary as there was no bass, thin voice and lumpy bass maybe due to the SUT/IC settling in..but now it is back. the main difference i can sense between before and now is that the background is much much more silent and tracking seems to be much better .

still settling in with the system as tonight as am going to reconfigure speaker positions as well. will keep listening ..

 

[stevieboy]

Ah good to know that Arj! Must drop by for a listen soon. The lenco, arm and all must be all set by now. Which SUT are you using?

Regards

 

[arj]

let me know and drop in..would like some expert (y)ears judging as well
got a good deal on a used Bobs devices which i picked up..the DL103 shines with one.
i think Viren also uses a Cinemag based stepup..which should be good.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

I am using an MC phonostage on my Nad 7155 to pair with DL 103. It appears to be well matched. The phonstage has 75 db sensitivity which according to Rajiv is excellent to reproduce from a ultra low gain of DL 103. I have noticed for phonostages of some of the old Sansui and Nad integrated amps perform much better than some dedicated phonostages. This may be because I have not experienced some of the better stand alone phonstages. Pl correct me if I am wrong

 

[Dr.Bass]

Kuruvila, my advice would be to just sit back and enjoy the music! Tinkering is an endless path! But, If you must, then feel free to upgrade/tinker. You have just bought one of the most legendary, and longest enduring, carts ever built! It's practically historical! Enjoy it for what it is.

I like this one, a very practical advice tek. Kuruvila, if you like the 103 you are very fortunate. Regardless of its price it gets many of the things very honest and accurate. Possibly you have the right tonearm for it too so why not just enjoy music around it ? You can tweak but from whatever I have gathered from reading is, with 103 there is rarely a wholesome upgrade with tweaks, you gain some and lose some. Try to gain detail you lose some of the flow and so on. Finally most people who settle on a tweak is their own preference, not exactly a wholesome universal upgrade. And there are many to try.

My advice will be, listen to the stock cartridge as long as you are really enjoying it, there will be a time when you somewhat start outgrowing it or the sound becomes too predictable, that is the point one to try tweaks to get back some of those novelty.

 

[santhosh]

Enjoy your rig Kuruvilajacob

Thought I should share this interesting read that I had come a while ago on the DL103, Altec Voice of the Theater, the Verdier TT and Vinyl v/s CD on the Auditorium 23 site :

Like the folks at L'Audiophile, we were interested in comparing the Verdier with compact disc players. When we did the comparisons, none of those present saw any reason to trade in the Verdier for a CD player. At one time, Eliahu Inbal, the renowned conductor, wanted to hear the first digital recordings he did with Denon on a system with the Voice of the Theatre . Of course, he was also intrigued to compare the CDs to analogue recordings. Afterwards, he asked us "How come CD conveys so much less emotion and atmosphere and sounds so much less natural?" If we or anybody else had known an answer to that question, maybe there would be no analogue record players anymore today. He was impressed enough by the demonstration to approach the Managing Director of Denon Germany at the following Frankfurt High End Show and ask him not to stop production of our then reference cartridge, the DL 103, as was rumoured at the time. This was 15 years ago. The DL 103 is still in production today. It looks like we managed to help the many friends this cartridge still has all over the world.

Link: Platine2

 

[jls001]

Kuruvilajacob,

The 110 and 160 are good but are probably a step lower down from the 103.

+1 to above. BTW, 160 is no longer in production, but you could still get lucky.

 

[arj]

I am using an MC phonostage on my Nad 7155 to pair with DL 103. It appears to be well matched. The phonstage has 75 db sensitivity which according to Rajiv is excellent to reproduce from a ultra low gain of DL 103. I have noticed for phonostages of some of the old Sansui and Nad integrated amps perform much better than some dedicated phonostages. This may be because I have not experienced some of the better stand alone phonstages. Pl correct me if I am wrong

Kuruvilajacob, 75 DB is more than enough..in fact anything above 60 DB is enough for this cart.


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[anilva]

I am a very big fan of DL-103 and I just ordered a second one to fit into my EMT headshell. Want to try this out before I buy the expensive EMT Tondose. Requires trimming of the connecting pins and soldering wires from the base of the pins.