Need assitance in purchasing LCD 40"-46"

[saumitra]

How is your experience with LH90 so far?
Especially, 200Hz motion flow, Night time viewing and USB movies?
Do you see uneven brightness due to local dimming in dark scenes?
Also, how is the look and feel? Hope you are enjoying yout TV.

So far so good ... Fortunately I have not had any of the issues pkv/others had mentioned except one - while playing movies from USB HDD, I am not able change any PQ settings. I have posted my comments on my 1st impression on the LH90 thread.
I am not convinced that 200 Hz motion flow makes a real big difference in normal TV/ movie viewing - I haven't tried connecting a gaming console yet, so can't confirm if it makes a big impact there (as sams9 mentioned). I tried setting this to low and high and also by turning this off. I really didn't find any noticable change.
USB movies - I played avi, divx, vob files. Though as mentioned earlier, I was not abe to change the PQ settings, otherwise it was great - I watched a divx version of "Paa" - man, it was better than watching a DVD ...
I played the vob file version of Dark Knight - it was even better.
However, the best experience was when I connected my Sony Camcorder and played some 1080i videos. I had this feeling that 1080i videos wouldn't look as good as the 1080p blu-rays - but I was wrong - it was as good ...

Night time viewing - I thought this is where it is really good, better than any other LCDs I have seen. I haven't yet noticed any uneven brightness ...

 

[BLASTO]

FYI LG does not use TN. All LG LCDs use IPS Pannels. And Samsung DO uses Non IPS pannel. Try a simple test, go to the showroom and put a slight pressure over the LCD on display or slightly knock on the LCD. Non IPS pannel would show a deformity, and an IPS pannel would not be affected AT ALL. Some high end SONY models might use IPS but not in the same range as LG for sure.

Hey Sam,
While IPS is better than other LCDs in general, when it comes to consumer grade LG LCD, it is sadly not the case. LGs typically don't attain the same level of PQ as similarly priced sony & samsung.

Only advantage of consumer level LGs are slightly better viewing angles and a "knock" friendly screen as you mentioned. Colour accuracy is not as good in LGs inspite of having a IPS panel. And then there is the infamous bad black level problem.

So what I mean is, having the IPS panel does not mean that LG TVs are better. As a whole TV, LGs lose out to sony/samsung primarily due to bad colour accuracy (inspite of having IPS), bad black levels and not so great SD processing compared to BE3 or DNIE+ engines.

 

[BLASTO]

I am not convinced that 200 Hz motion flow makes a real big difference in normal TV/ movie viewing - I haven't tried connecting a gaming console yet, so can't confirm if it makes a big impact there (as sams9 mentioned). I tried setting this to low and high and also by turning this off. I really didn't find any noticable change.

LG 100Hz is almost like non-existent. But LG does not price the non-100Hz vs 100Hz models much high which tells about their confidence in their 100Hz. Sony 100Hz frame insertion algorithm is the best. Panasonic comes next but really cannot compare as it is done in plasmas which makes the whole process easier.
Samsung and LG are amoung the last. samsung produces too much of uncertainity to picture.. Looks like "always moving".. As for LG, I too din't see a difference..

And for 200Hz, I don't know. But feel the above holds.

USB movies - I played avi, divx, vob files. Though as mentioned earlier, I was not abe to change the PQ settings, otherwise it was great - I watched a divx version of "Paa" - man, it was better than watching a DVD ...

I have mentioned this elsewhere.
The XCanvas studio mode does not have the picture setting of its own.
It takes the settings from the "last viewed" mode before which you pressed the XCanvas mode. (E.g. if you had AV1 before going into USB mode, the settings of AV1 will be taken for USB mode)
This is stupid because, you would want to change the picture settings AFTER seeing how the movie looks. The only way is to go back to AV1 (or whatever) and change picture settings ad see if the movie looks any better.
Such a pain, I eventually gave up using it inspite of observing the XCanvas mode in my LG had better upscaling than many upscaling DVD players!

I played the vob file version of Dark Knight - it was even better.
However, the best experience was when I connected my Sony Camcorder and played some 1080i videos. I had this feeling that 1080i videos wouldn't look as good as the 1080p blu-rays - but I was wrong - it was as good ...

Wow, It plays HD too? Then it is such a value for money! If only it had the picture settings for USB mode.

Night time viewing - I thought this is where it is really good, better than any other LCDs I have seen. I haven't yet noticed any uneven brightness ...

Well yes. You are lucky to get one of the last remaining local dimming sets. The scarlet really lags behind in this area and SL90 too probably.
Congrats.

 

[hubballi]

Nice specifications and price on this one. Does this has an option to turn off True motion?

Guys: is 42"LH90 still available. Going through one of the thread here about this TV it looks like LG discontinued it or am I reading something wrong.

The 42" LH90 is back in market (at least was available a week back in Pune. They discontinued the 47LH90 model.

 

[singho]

However, the best experience was when I connected my Sony Camcorder and played some 1080i videos. I had this feeling that 1080i videos wouldn't look as good as the 1080p blu-rays - but I was wrong - it was as good ...
...

Saumitra,


What input did you use for 1080i source ? HDMI ??

I am pretty certain that resolutions above 720 don't play from USB

 

[sam9s]

Hey Sam,
While IPS is better than other LCDs in general, when it comes to consumer grade LG LCD, it is sadly not the case. LGs typically don't attain the same level of PQ as similarly priced sony & samsung.

Only advantage of consumer level LGs are slightly better viewing angles and a "knock" friendly screen as you mentioned. Colour accuracy is not as good in LGs inspite of having a IPS panel. And then there is the infamous bad black level problem.

So what I mean is, having the IPS panel does not mean that LG TVs are better. As a whole TV, LGs lose out to sony/samsung primarily due to bad colour accuracy (inspite of having IPS), bad black levels and not so great SD processing compared to BE3 or DNIE+ engines.

I did not say .....because LG usus IPS its better, using IPS is an added advantage. And as is been said for Audio..... even Video is subjective and so I do not find it surprising that you found LG not attaining the same PQ than Sony n Samsung where in infact I found LG to be at par if not better then Samsung. Infact LG Picture customization is fabulous and when the PQ was configured per my taste it went well ahead than samsung (which is what I mentioned in my Review as well)

And that DNIE is utter Crap if you ask me does nothing to enhance PQ. In fact current LG's backlit LED technology (called local dimming technology) is far superior than what Samsung is using (called EDGE LED). Local Dimming Technology also know as Direct Lighting results in deeper blacks, a wide color gamut and smooth motion for a more natural picture. (google and confirm)

Just a small article to ponder......

CNET Australia - For A World Gone Digital

and an extract from the same article...

Direct or edge mounted?

There are two different methods of LED backlighting: direct and edge. The main advantage of direct lighting is that it can be used to increase contrast levels by turning some LEDs off thus increasing the amount of black in parts of the picture. LG is one of the champions of direct-lighting.

Quite Contratry to your statement "infamous bad black level problem."

In comparison, edge-lighting's main advantage is that it can be used to make screens that are incredibly thin the LEDs are at the side and not behind the screen. Of course, you lose the ability to switch off parts of the backlighting for better contrast, and picture quality could also suffer if light isn't sufficiently well dispersed

Samsung my dear friend had fake advertized their LED backlit technology as something of a revolution in LCD TVs, and charged an heafty price.....when in reality...... all it were, was an LCD using a backlit LED technology, that to EDGE lit. The only advantage of EDGE LIT over Local Dimming is ..extremely thin cabinet designs thats all. .......

Regards
Sammy

 

[BLASTO]

I did not say .....because LG usus IPS its better, using IPS is an added advantage. And as is been said for Audio..... even Video is subjective and so I do not find it surprising that you found LG not attaining the same PQ than Sony n Samsung where in infact I found LG to be at par if not better then Samsung. Infact LG Picture customization is fabulous and when the PQ was configured per my taste it went well ahead than samsung (which is what I mentioned in my Review as well)

And that DNIE is utter Crap if you ask me does nothing to enhance PQ. In fact current LG's backlit LED technology (called local dimming technology) is far superior than what Samsung is using (called EDGE LED). Local Dimming Technology also know as Direct Lighting results in deeper blacks, a wide color gamut and smooth motion for a more natural picture. (google and confirm)

Just a small article to ponder......

CNET Australia - For A World Gone Digital

and an extract from the same article...



Quite Contratry to your statement "infamous bad black level problem."



Samsung my dear friend had fake advertized their LED backlit technology as something of a revolution in LCD TVs, and charged an heafty price.....when in reality...... all it were, was an LCD using a backlit LED technology, that to EDGE lit. The only advantage of EDGE LIT over Local Dimming is ..extremely thin cabinet designs thats all. .......

Regards
Sammy

Are you talking about LG LCDs or the LH90 in particular?
LH90 is good if not great. I have personally demoed it.
Same is not true with other LG LCDs.

On the other hand, LG can no longer produce local dimming sets. It has a law suit againt manufacturing local dimming sets. The 2010 LG LED model SL90 is sadly also edge lit like samsung B6000 or B7000.

As I have always maintained, LH90 is an exception in LG stable. Other LG LCDs are not on par. Not even closer.

Also, Black level is not preception but a measurable quantity. You refer to any review or demo any LG LCD other than the LH90's and post your observation.

 

[sam9s]

Are you talking about LG LCDs or the LH90 in particular?
LH90 is good if not great. I have personally demoed it.
Same is not true with other LG LCDs.

On the other hand, LG can no longer produce local dimming sets. It has a law suit againt manufacturing local dimming sets. The 2010 LG LED model SL90 is sadly also edge lit like samsung B6000 or B7000.

As I have always maintained, LH90 is an exception in LG stable. Other LG LCDs are not on par. Not even closer.

Also, Black level is not preception but a measurable quantity. You refer to any review or demo any LG LCD other than the LH90's and post your observation.

Well as I said ...... very subjective argument....none the less, I auditioned Samsung and LG side by side with all settings default with my own BR (as mentioned in my review as well) and I found out little or no difference, but customization of PQ did wonders for my model over samsung and hence the purchase, else I would have gone for samsung......no big deal.....

 

[adder]

a lh90 can show better black then samsung edge led lcds only in some video scenes,the samsung can show better pixel level blacks where as the lh90 can only show zone wise,if the dimmed zone consists of majority a bright image then the blacks in that zone will be just like other lg tvs,if the zone has majority of blacks and traces of details,then the tv will have to compromise b/w showing better blacks or better shadow details,this were tv from samsung/sony and plasmas have the edge.

in lcd tvs the major advantage ips based tv have is their viewing angle and input lag.that however is about to change with arrival on some new tvs from sharp and sony.they are better in viewing angles, response time & input lag,contrast,power efficiency.

 

[saumitra]

Saumitra,

What input did you use for 1080i source ? HDMI ??

I am pretty certain that resolutions above 720 don't play from USB

Looks like my previous post on playing 1080i videos in LH90 created some confusion.
No, LH90 can't play HD (1080p/ 1080i) files directly from a USB HDD. In my case - I had connected by Sony Handycam with internal HDD (HDR-SR7) that had a few 1080i HD videos that I had recorded. I used a HDMI cable to connect the HDMI-out of the handycam to one of the HDMI input ports of LH90 and played the videos from the handycam. As I mentioned, this handycam is currently my only source (& player) for HD videos.
---
Regarding the comparisons between LG LCDs/LED-backlit LCDs vs. similar Samsung (& Sony) models - I don't think we will ever agree on which is better than the other. However, just as most of you guys agree that LG's LH90 is better than Samsung's & Sony's LCDs and edge-LED-backlit LCDs (that are available in India) in terms of PQ (& beyond doubt in terms of the features) - I think all our judgements/comments should be purely based on what we see while comparing partcular set of models across brands. Reading posts from majority of active members, it sounds like there is a general conslcusion that Samsung (& Sony) LCDs are way ahead of LG ones in terms of PQ. I think this is incorrect.
Just to take the above point further - I found it odd that most people talk highly about Samy's B550 & Sony's V & W series, but not too much about Scarlet & Jazz from LG. My understanding is - and not only by reading reviews and comments, but by actually reviewing and auditioning most of the models across brands currently available - if one has to rate the LCD/LED-backlit models primarily based on PQ:
Among the CCFL-backlit LCDs:
1. Sony's Z series models are probably the best
2. Samsung's B650 & Sony's W series are right on top, following the Z series
3. LG's Scarlet, Samsung's B550/530 are the next best ones and it is close to impossible to conclude which one is better

Among the LED-backlit LCDs:
1. Sony's X series RGB-LED based one is probably the best (this is debatable though)
2. LG's LH90 (being full-LED and not edge-LED and with local dimming) is next best
3. LG's SL90, Samsung's B7000/ B6000 are the next best ones - and I have compared the LH90 & the SL90 side-by-side with the B6000 and found both of them (LH90 & SL90) to be better than B6000.

Now, you either have to fotget about the budget/ price-range part and spend 50-75k more for the Sony Z series or X series (in comparison to similar-spec-ed LCDs from Samsung/LG) for better technology & PQ and the brand value, Or
If you don't care about all those comments on limitations about the edge-LED techonology, but really like the brightness of the picture these edge-LED models have besides their brilliant looks, settle for LG's SL90, Or
Look for Samsung's B650 which has equally good (maybe better) PQ and undoubtedly superior feature-sets than similarly (actually higher) priced Sony W series - unfortunately, you won't find any B650s in the market now - so you may have to setlle for Sony W series only, Or
Start comparing the next best ones - LG's Scarlet vs. Samsungs's B550 - here again, I personally would rate the Scarlet higher than B550, because I saw nothing great about B550's PQ in comparison to the Scarlet and as you all know Scarlet surely has much better features than the B550.

So when experts say great things about Samsung's B650 or Sony Z series or the X series - I fully agree. But when they extend that impression and judgement to conclude that all/most Sony & Samsung LCDs are better than all/most LG ones - I think it is a very unfair and biased opinion. I saw some comments on SL90 from people who generally concluded that SL90 is nothing great - that Samsung's B6000/7000 has better contrast - and pointed to multiple reviews. I read most of those reviews on SL90. While most of those reviews say that the SL90's PQ/black-level is not the best among the edge-LED models, those also mention about a lot of positives about it (e.g. excellent SD picture processing). And bear in mind that Samsung's B6000/B7000 are not considered as the best edge-LED models, it is samsungs B8000/B8500 models (& some Sony models) which are really considered to be the best. Again, that tells me that we are making general conclusions and judgements while commenting that SL90 can/will not be as good or better B6000 ...

To summarize - I think we should stop making general comments about Samsung/ Sony LCDs being better than LGs - rather compare model by model and then comment/ conclude.

 

[BLASTO]

It is also good to visit a friend who owns an LCD and have a look.
Store demo is not always decisive.

The stores typically have either the best videos (with no blacks) which will look good on ANY TV or a crappy DTH (I for one think this is intentional) to confuse you further.

A good demo in a friend's/HFV member's house cannot go wrong for the most part. More so for the plasmas.