Planning my HT Room

[venkatcr]

May be it is just Praveen, who manages it that way..

Quite possible. I have still not heard from Anutone.

I was browsing around in a market today and came across a seller who sells Owen Corning Fibreglass. This is supposed to be very good. He was quoting 2200 for a 10 sq. meter roll. This works out to roughly 20 Rs. a sq feet. If one can work with a good carpenter, that may turn out to be a very cost effective option. My 200 sq. feet will work out to just 4K. Even if I add another 200% for other parts and labour, my total cost is just 12-15K. Sigh!!:sad:

Cheers

 

[mandeep]

hello dear all,

After searching locally here in CHANDIGARH, some other options are also available which are available throughout India also.

For false ceiling

one can also opt for below solutions if budget is low

(1) Particle board ceiling tiles---from KITPLY, MODEL:Kit Topline, waterproof also. Price:for 2'x2' tile = Rs 80.

Price for simple particle board tiles:2'x2'= Rs 50-60.

Just put fiberglass above them for better NRC upto 0.80.

At the corners drill/make some holes and put more layers of fibreglass.

(2)Perforated Gypsum tiles:- Saint Gobian Perforated Gypsum tile Model:Fultone or Louvertone , Price for 2'x2'= Rs 140, use these at the boundaries/corners and first reflection points only and put extra layers of fibreglass on top of them at the corners to get high NRC upto 0.70 to 0.80. Else where use mineral fiber tiles, Model:Celotex, tiles with NRC of 0.50 to 0.55, cost Rs 110-135 for 2'x2' tile.

Note:

(1) Make use of "MARKIN cloth" to fully cover fibreglass before putting on top of tiles.
Markin cloth price is Rs 10-20 per meter.

(2) Labour cost is Rs 12-14 per sq foot for false ceiling,dont pay more than that,it includes putting the Grid system+tiles+fibreglass.

(3)At corners use thick/more layers high density fibreglass for bass absorption, and for first reflection only a single layer will be good.

would continue-------for walls, in the next post.

Regards

 

[santhosh]

That looks true if you contact them directly. But, if you contact Praveen, it is different! I called him and mentioned that i got the contacts from Subhash and Santhosh, he response was very warm and i never felt teh size of order is an issue for him. May be it is just Praveen, who manages it that way..

Wonder why a company the size and reputation of Anutone should have such poor comms. The least one would expect was to pass on this info to Praveen's team for some followup. If I had not got Praveen's contact through Subhash, I wonder what I would have done. Probably would have gone for the more expensive option of shipping from Fibratex in North India. Not sure

Quite possible. I have still not heard from Anutone.

I was browsing around in a market today and came across a seller who sells Owen Corning Fibreglass. This is supposed to be very good. He was quoting 2200 for a 10 sq. meter roll. This works out to roughly 20 Rs. a sq feet. If one can work with a good carpenter, that may turn out to be a very cost effective option. My 200 sq. feet will work out to just 4K. Even if I add another 200% for other parts and labour, my total cost is just 12-15K. Sigh!!:sad:

Cheers

FYI, Anutone markets several Owen Corning products too.

 

[govindp]

there seems to be some possible health risks with glasswool / rockwool / gypsum etc. there are both for and against views on this. Just wanted to share this info that i found on net. I dont have much knowledge on this subject at all.. But, I'm planning to avoid these and prefer natural material based boards:sad:

 

[santhosh]

hello dear all,

After searching locally here in CHANDIGARH, some other options are also available which are available throughout India also.

For false ceiling

one can also opt for below solutions if budget is low

(1) Particle board ceiling tiles---from KITPLY, MODEL:Kit Topline, waterproof also. Price:for 2'x2' tile = Rs 80.

Price for simple particle board tiles:2'x2'= Rs 50-60.

Just put fiberglass above them for better NRC upto 0.80.

At the corners drill/make some holes and put more layers of fibreglass.

(2)Perforated Gypsum tiles:- Saint Gobian Perforated Gypsum tile Model:Fultone or Louvertone , Price for 2'x2'= Rs 140, use these at the boundaries/corners and first reflection points only and put extra layers of fibreglass on top of them at the corners to get high NRC upto 0.70 to 0.80. Else where use mineral fiber tiles, Model:Celotex, tiles with NRC of 0.50 to 0.55, cost Rs 110-135 for 2'x2' tile.

Note:

(1) Make use of "MARKIN cloth" to fully cover fibreglass before putting on top of tiles.
Markin cloth price is Rs 10-20 per meter.

(2) Labour cost is Rs 12-14 per sq foot for false ceiling,dont pay more than that,it includes putting the Grid system+tiles+fibreglass.

(3)At corners use thick/more layers high density fibreglass for bass absorption, and for first reflection only a single layer will be good.

would continue-------for walls, in the next post.

Regards

Thanks for the info mate. Did not know Kitply was into acoustic tiles.

The Saint Gobain tiles was something I was looking for. I had even put a picture on my thread asking for more info. At this price, Sid may even try some DIY tweaking to get his own home brewed version of Auralex or RPGs. Some things I could think of is sealing some of the square perforations in a random pattern to obtain different depths. One could even make the holes larger by cutting off some of the squares but you may need to sandwich two or more boards depending on the size of the squares.

Mandeep bhai: what is this Markin cloth? Is it the same as the fibreglass cloth. I have used this in my HT build and this is useful in keeping the fibreglass flakes from flying into the room if you happen to open the panels.

I have an entire roll of Twiga fibreglass cloth. Anyone interested can take it from me free and return the remaining(if any).

 

[sidvee]

The Saint Gobain tiles was something I was looking for. I had even put a picture on my thread asking for more info. At this price, Sid may even try some DIY tweaking to get his own home brewed version of Auralex or RPGs. Some things I could think of is sealing some of the square perforations in a random pattern to obtain different depths. One could even make the holes larger by cutting off some of the squares but you may need to sandwich two or more boards depending on the size of the squares.

Definitely interesting idea Santosh. I spent some time researching DIY for the RPG skyline diffusers - Apparently it can be approximately done - one has to stick varying lengths of wood onto a flat tile - but some on the diy forum feel that unless a skyline is closely replicated its benefit will be diminished, which is quite hard to do. I did find pyramidal and barrel diffusers on the Anutone site, but evidently the best diffusion pattern is achieved by the skyline design. So I am going to bite the bullet and just get the RPG skylines. I did find a dealer in S'pore but his response to my small qty. was lukewarm at best, so I plan to bring a few boxes at a time on my trips to US.
Cheers
Sid

 

[santhosh]

there seems to be some possible health risks with glasswool / rockwool / gypsum etc. there are both for and against views on this. Just wanted to share this info that i found on net. I dont have much knowledge on this subject at all.. But, I'm planning to avoid these and prefer natural material based boards:sad:

True Govind, there are some unconfirmed reports that glasswool, mineral wool and fiberglass wool being carcinogenic. If this is true, the damage is irreparable. Far too many homes(mostly abroad and office buildings in India) have used these materials during construction. Apart from being good sound insulators, these materials are also excellent heat insulators. You have mentioned Gypsum as well, which I am not sure about.

Just some food for thought:
a) All refrigerators and airconditioners use glasswool
b) Armstrong ceilings tiles which are the most popular 2x2 grid tiles are made of mineral wool. You are exposed to it if you work in a modern building
c) All houses abroad use glasswool for heat insulation
d) Many speaker boxes of yesteryears used glasswool. In the past, I have myself had glasswool filled into my car speaker boxes
e) If we include Gypsum, we may need to reallocate more funds to our health insurance:sad:

So if you can avoid it, please do. If you can't, chose glasswool as it is the easier to work with compared to mineral wool or rock wool. IMO Rock wool is the worst, the Twiga dealer just opened the box to show me a sample and I started sneezing. It is also flaky and powders like crazy. Also, there is a huge hue and cry on this topic internationally and manufacturers including Indian companies have been forced to comply, so some relieft. But, it is another thing that Asbestos is still widely used in India.

Here are some tips from my HT build experience:
a) Make sure you plan your work such that you have everything in place before you start fiberglass work
b) Complete this activity the shortest duration possible. This is where planning is key
c) Here is what I would do if I were to go through the process again: Open the bag\box -> fill\stuff whereever required -> close box\bag of fiberglass -> cover the glasswool area with fiberglass cloth -> fit the panels-> Vaccum Clean the room -> dispose the glasswool collected in vaccumcleaner bag responsibly.

 

[venkatcr]

c) Here is what I would do if I were to go through the process again: Open the bag\box -> fill\stuff whereever required -> close box\bag of fiberglass -> cover the glasswool area with fiberglass cloth -> fit the panels-> Vaccum Clean the room -> dispose the glasswool collected in vaccumcleaner bag responsibly.

Santhosh, this come from the bottom of my heart. Simply an excellent advice. I particularly liked the last few words ending in 'responsibly'.

Cheers

 

[venkatcr]

True Govind, there are some unconfirmed reports that glasswool, mineral wool and fiberglass wool being URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinogen"]carcinogenic[/URL]. If this is true, the damage is irreparable. Far too many homes(mostly abroad and office buildings in India) have used these materials during construction. Apart from being good sound insulators, these materials are also excellent heat insulators. You have mentioned Gypsum as well, which I am not sure about.

Yes, it is best to avoid fibreglass and glasswool, though I am not sure about about mineral wool as it is made from natural elements. When we are going to spend close to 4 hours everyday in a room, it feels uncomfortable to fill it with something which could be harmful to us. I would keep looking at the panels wondering what it is doing to me.

That is one of the reasons I like the Silance boards. Not harmful at all. There are other options available, unfortunately they are all expensive.

One option is to use rigid fibreglass that will have less flaking and literally nothing flying from the board. Most manufacturers do make that.

Cheers

 

[cmsajith]

Oh Oh guys, I was not following the forum for a couple of months.
@George, If I am not late, I am also willing to join the group buy. My requirement will not be for the full room (only the bottom half portion, almost similar to your plan), but in living room.

 

[1000w]

Its not that difficult to make Bass traps. If you have the material should take a few hours max. I am tempted to try this out for my setup.

DIY BASS TRAPS - Index

http://www.petethomas.co.uk/high-frequency-absorbers.html

-Manish

 

[GeorgeO]

Sajith

Looks like you are well in time, don't worry.

George

Oh Oh guys, I was not following the forum for a couple of months.
@George, If I am not late, I am also willing to join the group buy. My requirement will not be for the full room (only the bottom half portion, almost similar to your plan), but in living room.

 

[GeorgeO]

Folks

Can we all give our requirements/spec to allow one person to consolidate everything and talk on behalf of the group to Anutone/carpet vendor?

Please note that Manish/Raj/I are all looking at buying the stuff during April, and we also will need someone( carpenter?) to fix the tile on the wall/ceiling as per requirement. It will be helpful to all if we can get hold of a single, competent guy to do this, if anyone has any suggestions, please come forward( Sajith any thoughts?).

Manish has done some research yesterday w.r.t to carpets and it makes sense for all of us to also do some research and come up with our ideas to firm up our decision, soon. I will measure my room during the day and come up with my final figures for tiles and carpet and post it by this evening.

Any inputs, anyone?

Cheers

George

 

[1000w]

Yes I have the carpet guy details and will pass it on here in the group. I checked with couple of stores on JC road and the prices are almost same (starting price is Rs.13/SFT!), its just a question of choosing one of them. All of them quote a price which is inclusive of installation.

In my case I will start work this week and have got hold of a carpenter to do some basic wood work in the room. Once I get details from Anutone and how to fix the boards will use the same guy to do it for me (If anyone is interested can give his details as well).

Unlike Santosh I only plan to do the reflection points and probably will also need Bass traps. I will visit Anutone this week and close my requirement by next weekend (my need for the boards will be after 2 weeks though). Suggest all those interested in Anutone to pass on details here and I can volunteer to talk to them on this.

I also plan to fix some brackets for the screen and will do so before the carpentry work starts so will order the Panoview screen tom
_Manish

 

[santhosh]

Great going folks. Fantastic find Manish, 13/sq feet is really too good.

Manish, when you say only the reflection points, is it just the two areas on left and right walls? This will be fine for stereo listening alone but for a Home Theater, you will have many more relfection points to address. If you plot the reflection points in a 5.1 or 7.1 scenario, you will be left with very little area that does not need treatment. While you may save a bit on material etc, it will be difficult to make it look good. IMO, you are better off doing upto 4 feet from the floor, ceiling and floor (thick carpet)

 

[1000w]

Yes Santosh, you are right about the reflection points. I am also trying to see if I can just target the first reflection point, not much success in getting the info yet.

Has anyone heard of Owens Corning 700 series for acoustic treatment? Most DIY sites mention about this and on searching their website I got the India contact in Mumbai. I even spoke to him but he has not responded to my query and email. Looks like they will only work with commercial setups and my requirement was too small for him to bother!.

In the US the cost of that material is cheap (half of Anutone). It is again compressed fiberglass sheets and would need the same finish as Anutone (cloth to cover up and something to mount it).

and so my hunt continues....

_M

 

[venkatcr]

Has anyone heard of Owens Corning 700 series for acoustic treatment? Most DIY sites mention about this and on searching their website I got the India contact in Mumbai. I even spoke to him but he has not responded to my query and email. Looks like they will only work with commercial setups and my requirement was too small for him to bother!.

Please see http://www.hifivision.com/av-enhancers-room-acoustics/7972-planning-my-ht-room-9.html#post118229

Cheers

 

[sidvee]

Great going folks. Fantastic find Manish, 13/sq feet is really too good.

Manish, when you say only the reflection points, is it just the two areas on left and right walls? This will be fine for stereo listening alone but for a Home Theater, you will have many more relfection points to address. If you plot the reflection points in a 5.1 or 7.1 scenario, you will be left with very little area that does not need treatment. While you may save a bit on material etc, it will be difficult to make it look good. IMO, you are better off doing upto 4 feet from the floor, ceiling and floor (thick carpet)

My 2 paisa - Absorption of first reflection points of the front left & right as well as the center are important, especially the center - for dialogue intelligibility, the rest really dont matter much - in fact it is better to use diffusers for the rear and side so as to obtain a diffuse surround sound field.
Cheers
Sid

 

[santhosh]

You are right Sid, diffusion is much better, but much more difficult to implement where you have to make the diffusors on your own or buy from abroad, hence my suggestion. Also good to have diffusive\di-pole speakers for surrounds.

Manish, about plotting first reflection points, search on our forum, you will find a post by venkatcr where he has described the mirror trick in detail with a picture. Post #3 on this thread is what I found when I searched:

Some brainstorming on the topic. Enjoy!!

 

[sidvee]

You are right Sid, diffusion is much better, but much more difficult to implement where you have to make the diffusors on your own or buy from abroad, hence my suggestion. Also good to have diffusive\di-pole speakers for surrounds.

Absolutely concur with you on this Santosh. It is pity that while a lot of acoustic treatment companies provide absorption panels, no body provides diffusion solutions, which IMO is extremely important in Home theaters due to smaller spaces.
Cheers
Sid