Tata Sky launches Tata Sky+ HD at just Rs. 3999/

[prankey]

^ Could be a dish alignment issue instead. As before software download you do not get any display through HDMI. So software should be there already.

Ideally replacement should not take more than 48hrs, however Dish HD took more than 2 months for 1st replacement and 1 month for 2nd (which finally resolved STB related reboot, hanging issue).

If the box need replacement, escalate to nodal officer if it doesn't happen in 2 days. Before that, please ensure the alignment is proper by insisting TS engineer to use another STB to confirm signal strength.

 

[sanjayc]

^ I have 4 cables coming from the dish lnb directlty (no splitters) - 2 cables to a Tata Sky+ box in one room and another 2 cables to the new Tata Sky+ HD box in my room.

Dish alignment is proper since I am getting all channels properly in the Tata Sky+ box...checked by connecting the older box in place of hd one - channels coming hence cable fault is ruled out.

Good thing is I placed the complaint yday night and half an hr back the engineer landed up - calling them engineer is bit of a joke. Since the box has gone in master reset mode, I asked him to see if connecting the cables via splitter will help in downloading the software once again if the hdd is corrupted - dude replies that software can be downloaded only once, which was already done at the time of installation - what crap?

At the time of installation, when I complained to the earlier guy who came to install that the hdmi is giving on stereo signal, he murmured something like yes it will since the cable is so thin..I was like WTF?

Anyways, the story now stands that the box will be replaced with a new one - I am told an email has been sent to Chennai HO for providing a new box, which should arrive today evening - I have asked the chap to come over even if it is 10pm and replace it - which he has agreed to - let's see.

 

[gadgetcrazy]

Installed today after 8 days of payment. SD content was much better on bigtv. HD pack not activated yet. Will complain to CC for that.

 

[parora]

i got it today, and it looks great, all other channels(non-hd) are also much clearer and sharper, i guess thats because of HDMI interface.

has anyone tried dissecting the USBs??

 

[prankey]

Okay, I just completed my "research" on this box. Scaling engine SUCKS big time (least I could say about it). To make the matter worse, it does deblocking of extremely blocky SD channels and applies noise filter on top of that to take the life out of SD content (if any is left after extreme compression).

That cheap Chinese STB of Dish HD is like TWICE superior in upscaling as instead of deblocking, it does noise shaping (keeping some blockiness and using it to fill missing pixels instead of deblocking and antialiasing).

Picture on TS+HD is extremely blurred and washed out on almost all SD channels due to the above phenomenon.

Also, de-interlacing on this Pace box is below par - blurs images further (due to inefficient algorithm used to de-interlace). This affect the conversion to 1080i also (as it first has to process each frames and convert to interlaced 1080i). Hence instead of reducing the pixel size from 576i to 1080i (or 720p) and adding missing pixels while processing the frames, its doing antialiasing to sort of blindly fill missing pixels to produce a similar picture as SD - this results in blurry image which though filters blockiness and zagged image efficiently, makes the image out of focus with missing details from the original SD (makes this conversion extremely lossy!).

Dish HD is FAR SUPERIOR in upscaling in contrast to TS+HD only converting the image to HD (after filtering blockiness and noise) and seems no other upscaling techniques are applied to "guess" missing pixels (we could revalidate this once we learn to somehow disable deblocking and noise filtering).

Adding the available bandwidth to Dish HD (they are underutilized - currently), having 300+ channels at disposal, readily capable of broadcasting more than 30 HD channels (currently mostly upscaled), is making them a clear winner. I wonder why is TS not even trying to compete with them!!!

I have got the refund claim FINALLY approved for Dish HD, however I am seriously thinking of keeping it and returning TS+HD instead!!! Above all, QUALITY means the most to me and currently Dish HD seems to be clear winner in terms of content quality (they seems to have resolved that SILLY Audio Distortion issue on most of the channels except PIX "HD" today, FINALLY). So if I could somehow bear their "sarkari" support, I may still keep the connection...

 

[prankey]

^ I have 4 cables coming from the dish lnb directlty (no splitters) - 2 cables to a Tata Sky+ box in one room and another 2 cables to the new Tata Sky+ HD box in my room.

Dish alignment is proper since I am getting all channels properly in the Tata Sky+ box...checked by connecting the older box in place of hd one - channels coming hence cable fault is ruled out.

Good thing is I placed the complaint yday night and half an hr back the engineer landed up - calling them engineer is bit of a joke. Since the box has gone in master reset mode, I asked him to see if connecting the cables via splitter will help in downloading the software once again if the hdd is corrupted - dude replies that software can be downloaded only once, which was already done at the time of installation - what crap?

At the time of installation, when I complained to the earlier guy who came to install that the hdmi is giving on stereo signal, he murmured something like yes it will since the cable is so thin..I was like WTF?

Anyways, the story now stands that the box will be replaced with a new one - I am told an email has been sent to Chennai HO for providing a new box, which should arrive today evening - I have asked the chap to come over even if it is 10pm and replace it - which he has agreed to - let's see.

He might be right on one thing - You do have the software as you are able to navigate through menus and can get HDMI output. Initially there is no software on the box and even HDMI output comes only after the software is installed (as suggested in my earlier post).

Let us know once you get the replacement box delivered.

 

[sanjayc]

He might be right on one thing - You do have the software as you are able to navigate through menus and can get HDMI output. Initially there is no software on the box and even HDMI output comes only after the software is installed (as suggested in my earlier post).

Let us know once you get the replacement box delivered.

Are you sure? Becos when it was installed for the first time and since then, it was always connected only via HDMI.

As I have mentioned earlier, no menu is coming up at all when the stb is powered on - it straigtaway goes into first time install mode - starting with the language selection screen > resolution selection screen > lnb selection > transponder selection and then finally gets stuck up at the signal lock screen.

Anyhow, received confirmation late night yday around 10pm that the new box has come from HO - since the engineer was stuck up at another place it seems, he said he will bring over the new box by 10am. Let's see.

 

[sanjayc]

Okay, I just completed my "research" on this box. Scaling engine SUCKS big time (least I could say about it). To make the matter worse, it does deblocking of extremely blocky SD channels and applies noise filter on top of that to take the life out of SD content (if any is left after extreme compression).

That cheap Chinese STB of Dish HD is like TWICE superior in upscaling as instead of deblocking, it does noise shaping (keeping some blockiness and using it to fill missing pixels instead of deblocking and antialiasing).

Picture on TS+HD is extremely blurred and washed out on almost all SD channels due to the above phenomenon.

Also, de-interlacing on this Pace box is below par - blurs images further (due to inefficient algorithm used to de-interlace). This affect the conversion to 1080i also (as it first has to process each frames and convert to interlaced 1080i). Hence instead of reducing the pixel size from 576i to 1080i (or 720p) and adding missing pixels while processing the frames, its doing antialiasing to sort of blindly fill missing pixels to produce a similar picture as SD - this results in blurry image which though filters blockiness and zagged image efficiently, makes the image out of focus with missing details from the original SD (makes this conversion extremely lossy!).

Dish HD is FAR SUPERIOR in upscaling in contrast to TS+HD only converting the image to HD (after filtering blockiness and noise) and seems no other upscaling techniques are applied to "guess" missing pixels (we could revalidate this once we learn to somehow disable deblocking and noise filtering).

Adding the available bandwidth to Dish HD (they are underutilized - currently), having 300+ channels at disposal, readily capable of broadcasting more than 30 HD channels (currently mostly upscaled), is making them a clear winner. I wonder why is TS not even trying to compete with them!!!

I have got the refund claim FINALLY approved for Dish HD, however I am seriously thinking of keeping it and returning TS+HD instead!!! Above all, QUALITY means the most to me and currently Dish HD seems to be clear winner in terms of content quality (they seems to have resolved that SILLY Audio Distortion issue on most of the channels except PIX "HD" today, FINALLY). So if I could somehow bear their "sarkari" support, I may still keep the connection...

Is you TS HD box connected directly to TV or via A/V receiver?

I noticed much better PQ with HD PVR compared to the non-HD PVR which obviously did no upscaling. In fact, with the HD+ box, I notice PQ to be better connected to TV directly rather than via the Onkyo A/V receiver that I have - is this due to double upscaling?

Did you also try to see the PQ using component video output?

BTW, how exactly did you manage to understand what's going on in the upscaling algorithm - by visual observation or something else?

 

[prankey]

Are you sure? Becos when it was installed for the first time and since then, it was always connected only via HDMI.

As I have mentioned earlier, no menu is coming up at all when the stb is powered on - it straigtaway goes into first time install mode - starting with the language selection screen > resolution selection screen > lnb selection > transponder selection and then finally gets stuck up at the signal lock screen.

Anyhow, received confirmation late night yday around 10pm that the new box has come from HO - since the engineer was stuck up at another place it seems, he said he will bring over the new box by 10am. Let's see.

I am actually completely sure. Even the TS engineer was unaware of this. He kept trying for software upgrade to happen for about 2 hours as nothing was coming through HDMI. I asked him to connect through composite and then we saw box searching for satellites and after another engineer came and finally realigned the Dish Antenna, it showed the software being downloaded. Once downloaded and rebooted, I was able to see what you saw through HDMI (initial setup). So only thing that engineer could have done was to try to re-download the same software which you already had.

You could confirm this process yourself by connecting the replacement box through composite video output (this is because HDMI and possibly component outputs work on top of the software).

Similar activity is needed for Dish HD.

Is you TS HD box connected directly to TV or via A/V receiver?

I noticed much better PQ with HD PVR compared to the non-HD PVR which obviously did no upscaling. In fact, with the HD+ box, I notice PQ to be better connected to TV directly rather than via the Onkyo A/V receiver that I have - is this due to double upscaling?

Did you also try to see the PQ using component video output?

BTW, how exactly did you manage to understand what's going on in the upscaling algorithm - by visual observation or something else?

I have a 7.5 year old Yamaha RX-V440 6.1 receiver which don't support HDMI inputs. So I have connected directly to TV.

I ensured identical setup (after tweaking various resolution settings) through HDMI for both the Dish HD and TS+HD boxes. Best output I found for my TV by looking at the images and scrolling text on News channels like NDTV 24x7 and Times Now was at 720p. While Dish HD did excellent scaling of Video and tickers (scrolling text), TS+HD was JUST OPPOSITE - blurring the tickers and images, reducing facial and other background details TREMENDOUSLY. When connecting through composite video from TS+HD directly to the TV gave BEST SD Picture Quality as my TV was doing much better scaling than TS+HD (which otherwise can't compete AT ALL with Dish HD's scaling or de-interlacing). I saw the same channel for several times switching between the 2 HDMI inputs and AVI (of TS+HD). Have not tried component, however the result should be superior to AVI as again TS+HD wont scale the component output.

You could try on your TV once you get the box replaced. UNDOUBTEDLY now (after more than 2 days of extensive testing) TS+HD is doing worst scaling I have ever seen (worst I saw was from my TV which as compared to TS+HD is only showing more blockiness but at the same time more detailed and sharper images with well defined edges (no sharpness or edge enhancement applied from TV on any of the sources). I have same calibration settings for all the 3 sources.

In other words, TS+HD is unable to even resolve to enough details to actually transfer artifacts like grains, facial details like beard, rashes and blockiness due to inefficient de-interlacing and scaling. You could test it yourself by comparing with composite output. If you have the latest Samsung or Sony Full HD TVs, you may see more prominent results of what I have found (composite scaling 576i to 1080p might be much better than TS+HD HDMI 1080i).

I have tested Dish HD on Samsung 46C7000 and 46C750 and both were WORSE than Dish HD's SD scaling to 1080i (had connected composite to test scaling on the TV - strangely I didn't get component output while using HDMI output).

 

[sanjayc]

I am actually completely sure. Even the TS engineer was unaware of this. He kept trying for software upgrade to happen for about 2 hours as nothing was coming through HDMI. I asked him to connect through composite and then we saw box searching for satellites and after another engineer came and finally realigned the Dish Antenna, it showed the software being downloaded. Once downloaded and rebooted, I was able to see what you saw through HDMI (initial setup). So only thing that engineer could have done was to try to re-download the same software which you already had.

You could confirm this process yourself by connecting the replacement box through composite video output (this is because HDMI and possibly component outputs work on top of the software).

Similar activity is needed for Dish HD.

Seems some communication gap between us. Not sure what has HDMI got to do with the software being downloaded - the software download will happen via the dish+lnb+cables to the STB, isnt it? Where does HDMI come into the picture here?

If you are saying until the new software is download display thru HDMI is not possible, that again am afraid it is not correct, until the hdmi port has some hardware related malfunction.

As has been widely reported here and other forums, the software download can only happen in the hd pvr box if a splitter is used at the time of new box installation - this is a known bug or shortcoming just like the hdmi stereo audio output issue - other things remaining constant like the dish alignment etc.

I just now recd the replace box - connected via hdmi to tv - on powering on this "virgin" box, the first screen that comes up (and yes via hdmi) is as follows:
DVB SSU+S LOADER
New software being downloaded. Do not switch off your box
0% completed. - this 0% is there for the last 15 mins or so.

Since I have read about this software download issue without the splitter, I have repeatedly from yday have been harping on it with the engineer who came - he checked with some senior technician on phone who confirmed the same thing - now this guy has gone back to his office to bring the splitter.

 

[sanjayc]

Okay guys. Good news. STB replaced with a brand new one. All set for Ind-Eng match now.

Zero charges for replacement. 2 thumbs up for promptness to TS. Maybe I am fortunate to have the local tata sky office some 5 min walking distance.

However, even the basic technical knowledge & skills of the TS field eng sucks. I pity those who have to completely rely on these guys to get max bang for the buck on their expensive home theater system.

Now my next target is to get the max signal level which currently shows between 50-60% though signal quality always shows 100%. Let me check if cleaning the dish and removing all the bird droppings and other garbage helps.

 

[fornax]

This is my first post, and wish to express my sincere thanks to the members on this forum, as I was contemplating one of the three HD-DTH providers - Dish, Airtel & TataSky.

Needless to say, I have placed an order for 1xTS+ HD & 1xTS HD. Pretty satisfied with their pricing, but was not sure about their competitors offerings, especially Dish TV's newly launched TruHD. I did suspect an upscaling operation, which was thoroughly cleared, without any further doubt via this forum.

Now, looking forward to the rest of the World-Cup in HD.

PS: Me and pops love nature & animals, and cannot imagine our luck that both Discovery & NGC are gonna be in HD hereafter.

 

[prankey]

Seems some communication gap between us. Not sure what has HDMI got to do with the software being downloaded - the software download will happen via the dish+lnb+cables to the STB, isnt it? Where does HDMI come into the picture here?

If you are saying until the new software is download display thru HDMI is not possible, that again am afraid it is not correct, until the hdmi port has some hardware related malfunction.

As has been widely reported here and other forums, the software download can only happen in the hd pvr box if a splitter is used at the time of new box installation - this is a known bug or shortcoming just like the hdmi stereo audio output issue - other things remaining constant like the dish alignment etc.

I just now recd the replace box - connected via hdmi to tv - on powering on this "virgin" box, the first screen that comes up (and yes via hdmi) is as follows:
DVB SSU+S LOADER
New software being downloaded. Do not switch off your box
0% completed. - this 0% is there for the last 15 mins or so.

Since I have read about this software download issue without the splitter, I have repeatedly from yday have been harping on it with the engineer who came - he checked with some senior technician on phone who confirmed the same thing - now this guy has gone back to his office to bring the splitter.

My TV doesn't support 576i through HDMI and hence I was not seeing the loader what you saw through HDMI (was getting "Unsupported Mode"). As usual, TS engineer had no idea what was the issue. So I had asked to connect through composite (after more than an hour of him scratching his head) to try seeing what what going on. Makes sense, sorry for the confusion. This is actually a great news that your TV can support 576i (try setting through "HD Settings". This should disable scaling through TS+HD on SD channels and should certainly improve the quality (if your TV does better upscaling).

As observed, even downscaling SUCKS from 1080i to 720p on this so I end up setting 720p to watch SD and 1080i for HD (will try component tonight - hope that works on this box as my Dish HD wasn't outputting through component if HDMI was active - seems HDCP issue).

 

[prankey]

A limitation - no TV type settings so it ends up displaying 16:9 content in "Letterbox" through composite output. Can't see an option to change that behavior (Dish HD is fine on this one).

UPDATE: Tested Component output - it also does scaling even if try to output SD in its native resolution of 576i. That's really terrible to note as usually the best picture I am getting from these compressed channels is through composite!!! This is MILES behind Dish HD which does amazing scaling of any source to any resolution while also doing great deinterlacing if I output to 720p!!

It seems I really don't have an option other than to return this box unless someone could suggest some hidden setting to "magically" improve the scaling quality to align with that of Dish HD.

Also, it seems TS will never want to improve their quality of SD channels (even if they get more transponders), as it can significantly reduce the recording time of claimed 625hrs! And even if they do, they have to somehow find ways to improve upscaling.

Also, the Hard Drive and Fan seems to be running continuously in Standby even when there is no recording going on!!!

On a sidenote - If people have seen latest episode of "Gadget Guru", they are boosting of TS+HD outputting in DD7.1 (which we cant check now as no channels available to do so - not even 5.1 is transferred through HDMI currently) and Big HD DVR of DD5.1! And we trust these people to give us accurate info...

 

[rajanvinod]

Do you guys know that Tata Sky+ HD comes with a black mesh antenna that prevents reception issues during rainy seasons by not allowing water to be retained on the antenna surface. Is this true?

I was not aware of this when I installed my STB and now I have raised a complaint with Tata Sky customer care. Have anyone else faced similar problem?

 

[madbullram]

@rajan: They install it only for new customers. Existing customer, they use the existing dish. The installation guy said he wasn't sure if there would be any difference as the angle in which the dish is placed the probability of water stagnation is less and wont affect that much. Only time will tell

 

[jsanand]

On a sidenote - If people have seen latest episode of "Gadget Guru", they are boosting of TS+HD outputting in DD7.1 (which we cant check now as no channels available to do so - not even 5.1 is transferred through HDMI currently) and Big HD DVR of DD5.1! And we trust these people to give us accurate info...

These Gurus are Pakhandi (Fake) Gurus....last one to rely for any kind of reviews...you should see the kind of gadgets and parameters on which they review these gadgets...

 

[gadgetcrazy]

I was a new customer but still got the old dish.

@rajan: They install it only for new customers. Existing customer, they use the existing dish. The installation guy said he wasn't sure if there would be any difference as the angle in which the dish is placed the probability of water stagnation is less and wont affect that much. Only time will tell

Sent from my HTC Hero CDMA using Tapatalk

 

[prankey]

I was a new customer but still got the old dish.

Escalate. They actually damaged my antenna while TRYING to align it. They were JUST RUTHLESS with installation. And some of us call them thorough professionals!

@rajan: They install it only for new customers. Existing customer, they use the existing dish. The installation guy said he wasn't sure if there would be any difference as the angle in which the dish is placed the probability of water stagnation is less and wont affect that much. Only time will tell

Why would he compromise on the cable cost and antenna when he paid the SAME amount as a new customer? Rajan, escalate to your nodal officer and ask them to install a new Dish and if not already done, with 24 meter cable which is included in the cost (despite them claiming to be giving in offer).

Dish TV is doing a similar SCAM when they just offer Rs.400 (which is actually the cost of the "VC") for old customers. They even want you to pay for installation fee of Rs.225 (as against Rs.200+tax=221) when the only thing the do is to swap the box! STB carton reads that 15meter cable will be provided at the time of installation, they don't give that as well. Easily saving ATLEAST Rs.500 for each connection towards cable, dish antenna, LNB and installation time.

 

[mehuldil]

Well.. After reading alll the post.. I am quite confused if I should really pay extra for TS+HD or DISH HD

Currntly I am using DISH DTH with LG 2010 PLASMA which is 720P... and quality is quite fine....