Audio Gurus - need ur suggetion for a good HT

[baron_semedi]

Hi,
I am sorry if I sound like a total noob - it is because I am a noob in HT audio.
I always wanted to have a good HT setup, and now I am almost finishing constructing my own home and I want to set up a good HT in the Living room.
I dont have a separate listening room, so, the Ht will go to the main Living room, and will be paired with a HDTV (not decided about size and brand yet)

The living room dimensions are 30X20 ft, and the main seating positions will be about 20FT from the wall, were I plan to put the HDTV. The wall will be of smooth cement plaster, and will be painted using acrylic emulsion. Floor will be Vitrified Tiles.

The budget for the HT (speakers, AVR and DVD player) is about 4L - 5L and is a bit stretchable. Size and shape of speakers are not a problem, and looks are not important, but the sound is.

Now the catch - from all the reviews and threads I have read, I came to understand that certain genre of music suits certain speakers - according to my mood, I listen to all kind of music - from karnatic to trance, from old malayalam melodies to reggaeton, from opera music to head banging rock, from malayalam to Vietnamese, from Japanese to Bhojpuri songs - my listening taste is real wide. The Ht will be used for 60% of music and 40% of Movies, and the source will be DVDs and CDs.

I know there is nothing like best of both worlds, but without much compromise in either way, I want a system which have good SQ, but can kick a good SPL when it needs. On a rough average, 70% of the time, I will need SQ, but rest 30% I need good SPL.
I will be really grateful if you can dish out some particular models which I can audition.

I am also in the market for a HDTV - 50 inch or more, and any advice about same will be most welcome. The budget for this is 1-2L.

Once again, thanks for your valuable time, and I eagerly look forward to the advices.

 

[venkatcr]

30 by 20 is a large room.

For HT, you need quite a powerful AVR and front speakers that can throw some distance. I would look horns/semi horns from companies such as K&F, Deftech, etc.

For music, it may make sense to have a separate set of floor standing speakers chosen carefully to suit your musical requirements.

If you are interested, I could go into more details.

Cheers

 

[baron_semedi]

@venkatcr: thanks a lot for the reply.

I dont have two seperate rooms, and I am not sure whether I can accomodate two seperate systems for Movies and Music in my budget - If I can, then I am a happy man

noob question - is it possible to connect the floorstanders (for music) and horns/semi horns (for movies) to the same AVR? Or do I need to go for two compleete set of systems?

ps: What do you think about speakers like Rethm? Is it something I should do an audition?

 

[venkatcr]

I dont have two seperate rooms, and I am not sure whether I can accomodate two seperate systems for Movies and Music in my budget - If I can, then I am a happy man

You don't have to have two rooms. See below.

noob question - is it possible to connect the floorstanders (for music) and horns/semi horns (for movies) to the same AVR? Or do I need to go for two complete set of systems?

Yes it is possible. There are simple switches available two switch two sets of speakers to the same amp.

ps: What do you think about speakers like Rethm? Is it something I should do an audition?

You are moving into difficult terrain. The Rethm are excellent speakers and will slice a large part of your budget.

It is generally believed that an AVR cannot do a good job for music reproduction. You have two choices.

1. Go in for a high end AVR that can handle both music and movies well. With the kind of power you need, we are talking in the realms of 3 to 4 lakhs for such an AVR.

2. Go in for an AVR that is specialised for movies, and have a seperate two channel amplifier. The two channel amp will deliver excellent music while the AVR will keep you thrilled with movies.

Cheers

 

[baron_semedi]

@venkatcr: oh! 3-4L for an AVR is beyond my reach. I think the second option suits me better - seperate AVR for movie and a seperate amp for music. But if I go for a 2CH amp and floor standars, will I be able to cajol out some good SPL if and when needed?

Or should I go for an amp which can drive the same set of speakers which my AVR will be driving?

As I said, the cap for budget is 5L, but is strechable to say, 15-20%.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Buy JBL Screen Arrays for HT.

JBL :: Product

You might even like them with music for some kinds of music.

Use Crown/QSC/Crest amps. I think the speakers sell for 1L+ each if you don't mind the expense. You can get smaller JBL Pros for surrounds. I wouldn't bother with an AVR at that budget. Pro amps + Pre/Pro FTW.

 

[baron_semedi]

@Decadent_Spectre: that is an excellent suggetion, and I have to agree that I have not given much thought about this. The walls have already been constructed, so, I am not sure I can go for a in-wall speaker arrangement. May be I can build some kind of wooden enclosure.

I hope @venkatcr and others will add some more details in the mean time.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Some speakers come with various ways to hang them on a wall, you can also buy or build stands. It might even be possible to make arrangements in a constructed wall, it does depend on the circumstances.

I also recommend treating your room for optimum performance.

 

[baron_semedi]

@Decadent_Spectre: Treating the room is not that easy - wife factor comes into play here. The tradeoff between us is - she will pick and choose wall surfacing, tiles - the colors, textures etc, and I get to put whatever equipments (speakers, Amp, subwoofer etc) I want.

@venkatcr: waiting for your inputs...

 

[venkatcr]

My apologies for the delay in giving my replies. Let us try to configure a system for you. We will go by components, and their rough prices.

1. The Source (Total Cost: ~40,000)

It is fair to assume that you will be looking for a Blu_Ray so that you can have full HD Audio experience. There are two ways to go about this.

1.1 One is to get a media player with a Blu-Ray drive built in, something like the Dune Prime 3.0. This is a decent media player with a Blu-Ray drive built in. In my personal opinion, this has a few shortcomings. One, the Blu-Ray drive is extremely slow. From the time you insert a disc to the time you actually start seeing any images is a few minutes. Second is the cost. At around 45,000, there are better media players available.

1.2 The second method is to get a decent Blu-Ray player such as the Oppo BD-80 for about Rs.25,000. In needed, get a independent media player such as WD-TV, TViX etc., for about 10,000.

2. The Processor/Amplifier (~2,00,000)

Since you are talking about a large room, and one that is also a living room, I would reckon you would need ample power. I would look at something between 100 to 150 watts per channel into 7 channels. Again there are two ways of going about this.

2.1 Get a decent AVR such as the Denon 1910 for basic processing needs. Attach a multi channel amplifier that can pump some 100 watts into 7 channels. One option is the Audire pure Class D multi channel amp, that Audire assures me is great. Given their previous performance, I would say this will be a good amp. The Denon is about 45,000 and the amp will be about 1,00,000. Other options are the NAD T973 and the T975 power amplifiers at around 1,00,000 and 1,50,000 respectively.

2.1 Get a higher version of AVR that has both good decoding and ample power. I would look at something like the Denon 3310 or the Onkyo 876/907. These would cost around a lakh and would pump out roughly 120 watts per channel. Or you could go one step higher to the 4310 that generates 130 watts and costs 1.50,000.

3. Speakers (~2,00,000)

This is the tricky part. We basically need to look at speakers that would throw good sound across 20 feet and sound good also. Again there are two options.

3.1 Get in-wall speakers that you can work with the interior decorator to mount on the walls. This will need some civil work, but at the end, would look nice and disappear completely. A good option are the UIW RCS III from Deftech for L/C/R and the UIW RS III Bipolar speakers for surround sound activity. Match these with a ProSub 800 and you are all set to go. The RS III surround speakers are bipolar and will reach your ears irrespective of where you are sitting. The 5.1 set would cost you roughly 1,70,000 and the 7.1 set roughly 2,00,000.

3.2 Get a pair of good floor standing speakers for the front L&R, a matching centre, dipole surrounds and a sub. There are numerous brands available. Some of the good ones are Deftech, Martin Logan, Dynaudio, EPOS, PSB, Canton, etc. Again a full set would cost in the region of 1.5 to 2 lakhs.

4. Cables and Interconnects. (~50,000)

I would allocate some 50,000 for this.

We start a process of discussion to shortlist the exact speakers depending upon your room and interior requirements.

Cheers

 

[GeorgeO]

An option that you can consider is to buy separate mutli channel amp and preamp/processor. Chances are that you can go for a decent combo that will be more musical than an AVR. There is a thread about the Emotiva pre/pro that some members of this form have recently bought.

In my opinion, dedicated speakers for HT and audio is the way to go if you can do it, you can share a sub if needed.

George

 

[santhosh]

The living room dimensions are 30X20 ft, and the main seating positions will be about 20FT from the wall, were I plan to put the HDTV.

30 by 20 is a large room.

Welcome to Hifivision baron. You really have a large room and really opens up many options. I envy you, I really do.

Also, appreciate the clarity you have on your requirements:cheers:. Normally we probe for percentages, taste, budget etc.

For music, it may make sense to have a separate set of floor standing speakers chosen carefully to suit your musical requirements.

Definitely, with a room that large and the kind of budget you have (you will need more , you should have a seperate setup for music and movies with minimal integration between the two. This way you will be able to enjoy best of both worlds.

The budget for the HT (speakers, AVR and DVD player) is about 4L - 5L and is a bit stretchable.

I am also in the market for a HDTV - 50 inch or more, and any advice about same will be most welcome. The budget for this is 1-2L.

You have started off with a good budget. Be wary that we will get you to spend more:yahoo:.

With 20 feet of viewing/listening distance, you SHOULD go in for a projector. A HDTV is optional, but a projector is an experience in itself.

The Ht will be used for 60% of music and 40% of Movies, and the source will be DVDs and CDs.

Baron, you are forgetting Blu-rays. You MUST invest in a good Blu-ray player and also a Media Player. Apart from Dune, there is also PopCornHour C-200 which is a fantastic Media Player and also allows you to add a BD-Rom Drive to make it a BD-Player cum Media Player. Priced nicely at 300 USD.

front speakers that can throw some distance. I would look horns/semi horns from companies such as K&F, Deftech, etc.

If you are game for Room Treatment, you still have the opportunity to integrate some in wall speakers for Home Theater and you can have another pair of speakers which are good for music. PSB, for example makes good inwall speakers. See PSB Speakers - In-Wall Home Theater Systems

ps: What do you think about speakers like Rethm? Is it something I should do an audition?

Irrespective of whether the Rethms suits your taste and budget, you should definitely audition them. Make sure you audition as many as you can before you make the purchase. This definitely helps you in making informed and consious decisions while choosing your speakers/amplification etc. You are in Kerala, so all the more reason why you should audition the Rethms.

 

[santhosh]

@Decadent_Spectre: Treating the room is not that easy - wife factor comes into play here. The tradeoff between us is - she will pick and choose wall surfacing, tiles - the colors, textures etc, and I get to put whatever equipments (speakers, Amp, subwoofer etc) I want.

Please do reconsider room treatment, it makes a huge difference. You can have room treatment and WAF appeal. Best way is to involve your wife at planning stage itself. Regarding the technical aspects of room treatment, going through the "AV Enhancers and Room Acoustics" section should give you an idea. There are several members who have done this (including myself) and members like Vinay, Venkatcr, Sidvee, Sumit, Ashish, cmsajith, George, Subhash etc and myself will be able to guide you treat your room.

noob question - is it possible to connect the floorstanders (for music) and horns/semi horns (for movies) to the same AVR? Or do I need to go for two compleete set of systems?

An option that you can consider is to buy separate mutli channel amp and preamp/processor. Chances are that you can go for a decent combo that will be more musical than an AVR. There is a thread about the Emotiva pre/pro that some members of this form have recently bought.

Very good suggestion by George. With your Music:Movie ratio, you are now in Pre-Pro Territory. My ratio is similar and I have a dedicated room too. I have purchased the Emotiva UMC-1 Sound Processor and should be receiving it by tomorrow. Watch out for my review on the same within the next week. Stay away from AVRs, the UMC-1 has the potential (according to reviews) to do both movies and music well. If your budget permits, you can buy something in the range of Anthem, Parasound etc. We'll decide on the exact brand/model a little later when we have rest of the chain.

Like Venkat has suggested, you will need a multi-channel power amp. Since you are in Kerala and Coimbatore is close to some parts of Kerala, you may want to check out the Audire Multi-channel amp.

There are many more things which you may need, but let us know if you already have some equipment that you are happy to use.

 

[baron_semedi]

@venkatcr:

No need of apologies - it is I who should ask you apologies for taking your time and effort Thanks a lot for your time and the very detailed reply.

1.The Source: Blue-ray was not in my mind - I was thinking that I will add a Blue Ray player later, but now, after reading the replies, I am inclined to go for the option 2 - a good Blue ray player and an independent media player. I did some googling, and came up with this model - OPPO - BDP-83 SE (MUSICDIRECT - OPPO - BDP-83 SE BLU-RAY PLAYER). The price is about 40-45K, but if this is a good one, I am willing to consider this.

2. The Processor/Amplifier:
I think i would go the AVR + multi-channel AMP way, but I will wait for the review of @santhol2 about his Emotiva UMC-1 Sound Processor too. The Denon 1910 looks good, and seems like it will fulfill my requirments for movies. I also saw Emotiva UPA-7, priced around $700 - what is your thought about this model? I read lot of good reviews about pure Class D amps, and I think that will be the way I am going.


3. Speakers

I really wish I could have taken your help before, but now, it is almost impossible for me to go for in-wall speakers. I will try to talk my wife into it, but I am not sure the wall depth and speaker depth will allow me to cut holes and put the speakers now. The other problems is, the work is in progress, and I am nowhere near to select what all components I need - if I decide to get in-wall speakers, I might have to stop the whole work for couple of weeks, so that I can get the dimensions and can do the arrangements - which is almost unlikely. So, I will go with the second option - Floor standing speakers (there is another childish reason - I always wanted to have a room with lot of big and imposing speakers - kind of childhood dream).

I started with a budget of 5L, and now itself, it seems like my budget is not really adequate - need to think some good points to discuss with wife so that I can allocate more funds if needed

 

[GeorgeO]

Santhosh:

Was one of your ancestor a certain Chalukya?

George


>Best way is to involve your wife at planning stage itself.

 

[santhosh]

To get an idea of how in-wall speakers can be used, have a look at the HT done up using Klispch in-walls:

KL-7800-THX Architectural Speaker - KL-7800-THX - Overview

 

[santhosh]

Santhosh:

Was one of your ancestor a certain Chalukya?

George

>Best way is to involve your wife at planning stage itself.

:lol: George, why do you say that?

Involving the wife at planning stage is better than having no acoustics at all. WAF appeal is guaranteed... if the project kicks off that is.

 

[baron_semedi]

@santhol2 involve her in the planning, and I would have opened a pandoras box
hope she does not see this post..

 

[iaudio]

@venkatcr:

No need of apologies - it is I who should ask you apologies for taking your time and effort Thanks a lot for your time and the very detailed reply.

1.The Source: Blue-ray was not in my mind - I was thinking that I will add a Blue Ray player later, but now, after reading the replies, I am inclined to go for the option 2 - a good Blue ray player and an independent media player. I did some googling, and came up with this model - OPPO - BDP-83 SE (MUSICDIRECT - OPPO - BDP-83 SE BLU-RAY PLAYER). The price is about 40-45K, but if this is a good one, I am willing to consider this.

2. The Processor/Amplifier:
I think i would go the AVR + multi-channel AMP way, but I will wait for the review of @santhol2 about his Emotiva UMC-1 Sound Processor too. The Denon 1910 looks good, and seems like it will fulfill my requirments for movies. I also saw Emotiva UPA-7, priced around $700 - what is your thought about this model? I read lot of good reviews about pure Class D amps, and I think that will be the way I am going.


3. Speakers

I really wish I could have taken your help before, but now, it is almost impossible for me to go for in-wall speakers. I will try to talk my wife into it, but I am not sure the wall depth and speaker depth will allow me to cut holes and put the speakers now. The other problems is, the work is in progress, and I am nowhere near to select what all components I need - if I decide to get in-wall speakers, I might have to stop the whole work for couple of weeks, so that I can get the dimensions and can do the arrangements - which is almost unlikely. So, I will go with the second option - Floor standing speakers (there is another childish reason - I always wanted to have a room with lot of big and imposing speakers - kind of childhood dream).

I started with a budget of 5L, and now itself, it seems like my budget is not really adequate - need to think some good points to discuss with wife so that I can allocate more funds if needed

I absolutely get that! hyeah:

Btw, what about Denon 2310? It has pre outs right, so you can use something like the Audire multi channel amp with it, if you need more juice.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

"Big and imposing" speakers are big and imposing for a reason. They obliterate smaller "audiophile" speakers in regards to THD/SPL (particularly down low), SQ is of course subjective.

If you have money to burn, Line Arrays, like the JBL VERTEC.