Dubai HFV (Mini) Meet & Marantz CD 6003 vs. Emotiva ERC-1 CD Player Shootout

[anm]

why is that so?

coz onkyo may have thrown in comparatively better components on the CD route for the music.
When you say DVD input - I hope you didn't mean digital input but 2 channel analog?
Why don't you reverse the inputs on onkyo and then give another serious listen.

 

[gobble]

coz onkyo may have thrown in comparatively better components on the CD route for the music.
When you say DVD input - I hope you didn't mean digital input but 2 channel analog?
Why don't you reverse the inputs on onkyo and then give another serious listen.

I was thinking on the same lines ... another listen is warranted. This time with connections reversed.

Regards

 

[captrajesh]

The Emotiva, in my opinion, was a clear winner.

Going by the reputation preceding the Emotiva, I guessed so. Good, I'll now have a reason to upgrade.

I am also traveling to Chennai tonight

Are you from Chennai?

 

[captrajesh]

well - thekinge - the test, and the inference drawn from it, becomes meaningless.

Sounds interesting.

coz onkyo may have thrown in comparatively better components on the CD route for the music.

This is definitely a point to ponder.:thumbsup:

Why don't you reverse the inputs on onkyo and then give another serious listen.

Good idea.:clapping:

 

[venkatcr]

Reversing the connections, in my opinion is not really going to make any difference. Other than two independent RCA analogue connectors outside, I am sure they are both sent to the same audio circuitry inside. Mind you these are not digital connections, rather two analogue connections.

Even at home I use these two connections between multiple sources. In pure direct mode, they do not make any difference.

Regarding the soundstage being an effect of the amp, speakers or source, in this, case makes do difference. Since all other factors were the same, we can only conclude that the CD Player made a difference. Since it was able to centre the main singer/instruments perfectly, I suspect it was sending the data in a manner that enabled the amp and the speakers to create a larger soundstage. The Marantz was clearly limiting the sound stage and the speakers were very clearly 'visible' to me with my eyes closed. It was like two sound walls that were created to the left and right of the speakers, and the sound was not allowed to go out beyond that. When the Emotiva was playing, the walls just vanished.

The Emotiva has a variable output voltage stating from 1 V rms and going to 7 V rms. I suspect the player automatically compensates for gain loss in source.

Here is comparison of the specs

Marantz

* Frequency Range: 2Hz-20KHz
* (S/N: 111dB
* THD: 0.002%
* Channel Separation: 110dB
* DAC: Cirrus Logic

Emotiva

* Frequency response: 0-20Khz (+/- 0.1 db)
* S/N: >100dB (A weighted)
* THD: <0.01% 0dB 1KHz)
* Channel separation: >95dB - ref. 1kHz
* Output voltage: 1V rms (7V peak)
* DAC: Analog Devices

The differences in specs are small, but the Emotiva did seem to perform better. In complicated instrumental numbers, the Emotiva was clearly able to separate the instruments much better.

I know many of you are Marantz fans, but Emotiva seems to have done it's homework well.

Cheers

 

[gobble]

I know many of you are Marantz fans, but Emotiva seems to have done it's homework well.

Cheers

BOOOOOHOOOhooohoo! Sob! :sad:
WAAAAAaaa! :sad:

<Total breakdown>!!

I want my money back on the Marantz!! :argue:

 

[venkatcr]

dhilip(kinge)...........congrats on cdp compare........well since you will be in Chennai, i can audition you 6003 and show its real capabilities

i have heard the emotiva but @ price point it is weaker

my suggestion is audition marantz over solid state amp.............you can pm me if you want audition

Reddy, I do wish you would write in a manner where at least I can understand what you are trying to say.

'Real Capabilities'? I suspect you are trying to say here that if coupled with 'better' amp and 'speakers', the Marantz will perform better. This really does not make any sense, as in that scenario even the Emotiva will perform better. When any comparison is done, one usually keeps all factors other than the units being compared the same.

'At the price point Emotiva is weaker'. This is a very broad, loose, and inconclusive statement. Weaker than what? Weaker in what way?

'my suggestion is audition marantz over solid state amp' - again I am lost here. The Onkyo, as far as I know, is a solid state device.

Cheers

 

[thekinge]

Are you from Chennai?

Yes sir I am a product of Chennapattinam

 

[suri]

Other than two independent RCA analogue connectors outside, I am sure they are both sent to the same audio circuitry inside. Mind you these are not digital connections, rather two analogue connections.

hi venkatcr -

dvd-audio is processed by the receiver to output to 5.1 channels ( centre , two sides, two behind - and subwoofer) -

so, if the cd6003 was connected to the DVD-AUDIO input , the two-channel analogue signals produced by the internal DAC of the player (cd6003) would have been processed and amplified by the ONKYO to output to 5.1 channels

whereas - the two-channel analogue signals produced by the emotiva (and input to CD RCA input of the onkyo) would be processed and amplified by the onkyo to output to 2 channel stereo

pretty sure that there would there would have been a greater import to the test of the two sources if their outputs had been input to the CD analogue (input) of the ONKYO - and compared

regds
suri

 

[suri]

BOOOOOHOOOhooohoo! Sob! :sad:
WAAAAAaaa! :sad:

<Total breakdown>!!

I want my money back on the Marantz!! :argue:

gobble - i will give you entire monies you have expended on the purchase -
TIA

 

[Rajiv]

onkyo, budget avr's are not solid state.

Hi Reddy,

Could you please clarify.

I was not aware that Onkyo made budget tube(thermionic valve ) AVR's.

Regards
Rajiv

 

[iaudio]

Hi Reddy,

Could you please clarify.

I was not aware that Onkyo made budget tube(thermionic valve ) AVR's.

Regards
Rajiv

Nor was I.

Solid state (electronics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Solid-state electronics are those circuits or devices built entirely from solid materials and in which the electrons, or other charge carriers, are confined entirely within the solid material.[1] The term is often used to contrast with the earlier technologies of vacuum and gas-discharge tube devices and it is also conventional to exclude electro-mechanical devices (relays, switches and other devices with moving parts) from the term solid state.[2][3] While solid-state can include crystalline, polycrystalline and amorphous solids and refer to electrical conductors, insulators and semiconductors, the building material is most often crystalline semiconductor.[4][5] Common solid-state devices include transistors, microprocessor chips, and DRAM. A considerable amount of electromagnetic and quantum-mechanical action takes place within the device. The expression became prevalent in the 1950s and the 1960s, during the transition from vacuum tube technology to semiconductor diodes and transistors. More recently, the integrated circuit (IC), the light-emitting diode (LED), and the liquid-crystal display (LCD) have evolved as further examples of solid-state devices.

 

[raj]

Thanks Kinge and Venkat for the comparison ( and the pending detail review). I know it requires some amount of patience to do this as I have been putting off comparing two pre-amps.

Reversing the connections, in my opinion is not really going to make any difference. Other than two independent RCA analogue connectors outside, I am sure they are both sent to the same audio circuitry inside. Mind you these are not digital connections, rather two analogue connections.

Sounds logical to me. I have done the same and found really no difference in a std stereo setup. However, I have heard difference between digital and analog output. I think the only reason some are asking to reverse the connection is to remove any element of doubt. But then there is no end to doubt I guess.
FWIW, I found in audioasylum, one guy had compared Emotiva to an expensive Theta/Genesis 3 piece (older) combo and found that the Emotiva was performing as well as the expensive unit.

 

[odyssey]

What is the output voltage of the Marantz, I dont understand the Emotive being 1V and going up to 7V? does that mean it has variable volume?

Reversing the connections, in my opinion is not really going to make any difference. Other than two independent RCA analogue connectors outside, I am sure they are both sent to the same audio circuitry inside. Mind you these are not digital connections, rather two analogue connections.

Even at home I use these two connections between multiple sources. In pure direct mode, they do not make any difference.

Regarding the soundstage being an effect of the amp, speakers or source, in this, case makes do difference. Since all other factors were the same, we can only conclude that the CD Player made a difference. Since it was able to centre the main singer/instruments perfectly, I suspect it was sending the data in a manner that enabled the amp and the speakers to create a larger soundstage. The Marantz was clearly limiting the sound stage and the speakers were very clearly 'visible' to me with my eyes closed. It was like two sound walls that were created to the left and right of the speakers, and the sound was not allowed to go out beyond that. When the Emotiva was playing, the walls just vanished.

The Emotiva has a variable output voltage stating from 1 V rms and going to 7 V rms. I suspect the player automatically compensates for gain loss in source.

Here is comparison of the specs

Marantz

* Frequency Range: 2Hz-20KHz
* (S/N: 111dB
* THD: 0.002%
* Channel Separation: 110dB
* DAC: Cirrus Logic

Emotiva

* Frequency response: 0-20Khz (+/- 0.1 db)
* S/N: >100dB (A weighted)
* THD: <0.01% 0dB 1KHz)
* Channel separation: >95dB - ref. 1kHz
* Output voltage: 1V rms (7V peak)
* DAC: Analog Devices

The differences in specs are small, but the Emotiva did seem to perform better. In complicated instrumental numbers, the Emotiva was clearly able to separate the instruments much better.

I know many of you are Marantz fans, but Emotiva seems to have done it's homework well.

Cheers

 

[keith_correa]

Yep, The King Elvis - my handle's a tribute to my favorite singer and first true rock star

Ha! That be Buddy Holly. hyeah: Sorry for being OT. Please resume.

 

[suri]

the dvd input on the receiver is meant for a specific purpose - (read copied material below)

Additionally, you'll need an A/V receiver that features 5.1-channel analog inputs and an "analog direct" mode. The 5.1-channel (or 6-channel) analog inputs are required to connect a DVD-Audio player. Due to copyright concerns, no digital audio outputs are allowed for DVD-Audio's high-resolution PCM audio signal, only the 6-channel analog outputs are allowed. The A/V receiver's "analog direct" ("pure direct") mode is strongly recommended so that the receiver bypasses its normal digital signal processing (DSP) circuits that usually degrade the high-resolution DVD-Audio signal, due to the additional analog-to-digital and digital-to-analog conversion stages. To connect the DVD-Audio player with the receiver, you will need six sets of interconnects (RCA type) for the six channels of analog audio.

If you plan to listen to DVD-Audio seriously, ideally you will want to consider five identical, full-range speakers. But practically, it's difficult to have a floor-standing center channel speaker if your audio system also serves as a home theater (since a home theater usually requires a horizontally-oriented center channel speaker). Another practical constraint is the additional cost of using four identical speakers for left/right front and left/right surround channels. So practically speaking, the same 5.1-channel speaker set-up that you have for home theater could be used for DVD-Audio playback. Just make sure that the DVD-Audio player has an adequate bass management feature that allows you to route the bass frequencies to those speakers that can handle it. And understand that these compromises make it less than ideal for the full-fledged DVD-Audio experience. (End)

seems to me that - dvd-audio processing and output is completely separate from cd-audio processing and output in the ONKYO receiver-

dvd-audio has a much higher sampling rate than cd-audio -

so there have to be separate circuits for dvd-audio and cd-audio inside the said ONKYO receiver.

 

[venkatcr]

What is the output voltage of the Marantz, I dont understand the Emotive being 1V and going up to 7V? does that mean it has variable volume?

I was not able to find out the output voltage of the Marantz as it is not mentioned in any of the spec sheets. The Emotiva does have variable gain, and I suspect it has circuitry to compensate for gain differences either within a song or between songs. The 7V is peak for handling extended dynamics.

I suspect the Marantz ouput will be around 2V rms. This needs to be confirmed.

Cheers

 

[venkatcr]

..... seems to me that - dvd-audio processing and output is completely separate from cd-audio processing and output in the ONKYO receiver-

dvd-audio has a much higher sampling rate than cd-audio -

so there have to be separate circuits for dvd-audio and cd-audio inside the said ONKYO receiver.

Suri, the article you posted has confused you between digital input and analogue inputs. DSP and DAC is done by an AVR only when the input is a digital signal through HDMI, Coaxial digital, or through optical.

When you send an analogue signal where the DSP and DAC has been completed outside, the AVR becomes a simple preamp cum power amp. At that level, irrespective of which input port you use, the data is processed by the same pre/power combination and sent to the same Front L&R speaker outputs. As far as I know, even the most expensive AVRs do not have independent pre/power combination for each input. That would be silly and prohibitively expensive.

Cheers

 

[audiodelic]

Im not sure why this is coming as such a surprise to many of you. I understand compared to yamaha/onkyo a marantz is considered superior is sq.

Emotiva's products are claimed to be highly audiophile centric and are designed keeping sq as first priority, many in their forums have compared the Emotiva cd player to cary/arcam range products and found it to be superior or at par.

 

[anm]

hmm Venkat - I think it may be an incorrect assumption. AFAIK, DSP can be done on analog inputs as well, for bass management and effects. This is done probably by first ananlog to digital conversion, apply dsp processing and then again digital to analog. Avrs have pure direct modes on analog inputs too to bypass any dsp.Again, all the above is MY assumption

Suri, the article you posted has confused you between digital input and analogue inputs. DSP and DAC is done by an AVR only when the input is a digital signal through HDMI, Coaxial digital, or through optical.

When you send an analogue signal where the DSP and DAC has been completed outside, the AVR becomes a simple preamp cum power amp. At that level, irrespective of which input port you use, the data is processed by the same pre/power combination and sent to the same Front L&R speaker outputs. As far as I know, even the most expensive AVRs do not have independent pre/power combination for each input. That would be silly and prohibitively expensive.

Cheers